I am curious to know if, based on your faith, you think it is possible for the human race to become utterly extinct. Does the free will we have been endowed with make even that awful fate possible, or do you think that, because of the particular interest God has in us (we being created in His image, for example) this is not something that would ever be allowed to happen? In a word, should we take steps to ensure that there will still be human life in 100 years, or (assuming–at least for the moment–that the apparent dangers to our continuance haven’t just been fabricated somehow) homo sapiens are safe in God’s hands.
I’m particularly interested in the Judeo-Christian response to this, but I hope those with less traditional theist views will also chime in. Thanks in advance for any responses. I have “Believer” in the title because I’m less interested in the responses of those who, e.g., consider themselves Jewish because their parents were Jewish and they enjoy matza ball soup. I’m interested in the responses of believers.
I think I can explain this. They’ve grown up. You’ve preferred to stay a child. Nearly all that is “obvious” to the babe in arms is that they need their mommies.
I really have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Embracing the truth means rejecting the illusion that God does not exist. It’s not difficult given that particular illusion’s implausibility.
peace
peace
Read it again, this time without fantasizing. Take “true” to mean, roughly, “corresponds with reality” instead of “Jesus Christ”
I don’t understand the hostility
You agree that in your worldview our choices are ultimately meaningless. Yet you are somehow very bothered by a choice that I make.
Do you understand why I see your position as profoundly illogical?
peace
If I’m hostile, it’s because you write stuff like that. I don’t think and have never said that our choices are ultimately meaningless. You write garbage like that, you’re going to get hostile responses.
Yes, because you can’t grow up. You absolutely delight in your childish neediness.
Not sure if I was given a compliment here or not.
Corneel,
Backhand, and to the ribs.
So??
My choice matters to me and that is the only thing that counts in your world, Right??
peace
Then you need to explain what gives our choices meaning in an ultimate sense given that ultimately and very soon we will all be dead.
If you don’t do that I will be forced to assume that you don’t think they have ultimate meaning.
peace
Do you still not understand why I would get the idea that you believed our choices are ultimately meaningless???
peace
Wrong. Expect more hostility.
In an even more “ultimate sense” than you seem able to comprehend in your needy childish, illusion-fiiled-and-dependent, terribly sad existence, “meaning” does not require eternal life.
All that forces your incomprehension is a lot of foolishness you have absorbed over your ill-spent, illusion-dependent “life.”
Oh, I understand it very well.
Meaning for whom? The Universe, us, an omniscient God?
For FMM, “ultimately”–like “truth” and “goodness”–just means “Jesus” He didn’t get his robot certificate without earning it.
What exactly does meaning in an ultimate sense require in your world?
peace
What does “ultimate” mean in your world? Jesus, right?
objective meaning.
Unless you think that such a thing does not exist.
Which would be an acknowledgement of my point.
peace
Pretty much the same thing it does in Websters.
Of course all of that depends on what the definition of is is. Perhaps there is a book we should read 😉
peace
And that’s bad, isn’t it?
Oh, bullshit. Give some meaning of “ultimate” you like–from Webster’s or anywhere else. And you probably should cut the Clinton bullshit too. It just makes me think you’re having an affair yourself.
Not necessarily
There is no particular reason why you have to care about anything beyond yourself. I think that is basically what psychopaths feel.
peace
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ultimate
works for me.
I realize our usual dance involves parsing definitions and chasing rabbits till we forget what we were talking about in the first place.
I don’t have time for that. I’m on vacation and probably won’t be able to respond once I get home
peace
Just trying to see what is so blatantly obvious for you.
Not sure how an objective meaning does not still make it “all about you “
when you personally make that choice.
I am aware of the argument.
So god is a psychopath?
I’m a Calvinist, I don’t beleive you can make that choice absent supernatural gift of regeneration from God. His Choice
quote:
But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
(1Co 1:26-31)
peace
Because according to your worldview, FMM, all that matters is what matters to god, right? So what you wrote there is something god might say:
“What matters to me is all that counts”
No God is Triune.
Each person in the Godhead cares primarily about the other persons
peace
And Quadra-Awesome!!
OK, the first one there is “Last in the progression of a series.” So why can’t what matters to me have ultimate importance without bringing in anybody in a loin cloth?
You shot yourself in the foot and you know it. You do it all the time because you’re terribly bad at logic (even though you only have a couple of stupid premises to work with). You should consider toning down your cute arrogance a few notches.
Because you and yours will die and be forgotten and the progression of series that is the universe will roll on just like you never existed.
Now if “matters to walto” is all you mean by matters then my point is made. And we agree
peace
keiths:
fifth:
They don’t need to matter eternally in order to matter in the world. This is obvious, fifth.
I think that is advice others also could consider.
Except perhaps for the “psychopath” part, but I am sure God will treasure that kind gesture of unselfish appreciation for eternity.
I think mattering means more than “important to Keiths”.
You apparently disagree That bye the way proves my point.
peace
Are you kidding me? Walto thinks I dwell on the Trinity way too much and you think I don’t take it into account when I speak of God’s desires
LOL
peace
We’re all made in the image of this tripolar psychopathic god of fifth. Deal with it
It’s not arrogance. It’s confidence in God
peace
I’m not sure why you feel it’s beneficial to your case to repeat a silly charge that has just been utterly demolished with a simple observation. But go with what you have I guess
peace
keiths:
fifth:
Of course, which is why I wrote
But there are other “progressions of series.” Those of us who aren’t megalomaniacs don’t require that what we happen to be interested in today have importance across the length, breadth and eons of the entire frigging universe. Wanting that is just a sickness born of neediness and self-aggrandizement. Anna Freud has some good stuff on this. Karen Horney, too. Highly recommended.
Utterly demolished to toddlers is often just silly babble to grownups.
Perhaps the lack of common understanding of exactly what is being discussed is part of the issue with what one person finds obvious to another not so much. Have a good vacation.
I understand, it is God’s choice that is objective. Your subjective choice is to accept the gift. Get outside and have fun.
Nope. You don’t actually think. You assume from your training in presuppositionalism. If you thought you’d easily noticed those unsolvable problems of your worldview.
I don’t create anything. You confirmed what I said here:
See? What choices are you making? None. Whose making those choices then? Your imaginary friend. Who’s still guilty? You! Who’s getting forgiven for this god’s choices by having his “son-who-is-actually-himself” sacrificed? You! Absurd to no end. But you’re trained not to care one bit. To call that kind of twisted bullshit “logic.”
Nope. I just see what you refuse to see. Sorry, what your imaginary friend doesn’t allow you to see for yourself, since you’re just one of his puppets..
While I doubt you know any of my positions on those issues, the fuss is because there’s no magical being coming to the rescue. We’re on our own.
You keep saying that, yet confirming the very opposite. Not too surprising, since your “Authentically Biblical Defence Of The Faith [TM]” consists on nothing but unwarranted claims and nonsense. Reason doesn’t make it into the equation.
If this was not an anti-theist site or if you had a less grating demeanor or if I was not so incredibly pressed for time I would take the time to explain the philosophical position called compatibilism to you but instead I will just let Paul do the talking.
quote:
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
(Rom 9:18-23)
end quote
nuff said
peace