The 2020 US Presidential Election

Of course this should normally be a domestic affair for the people of the United States of America. But this year seems so extraordinary in many ways. I’m following events with interest, hope and alarm (not necessarily in that order). In 2016, I posted my thoughts on the imminent election, never for one moment thinking that the US would elect Donald Trump as president. Boy, was I wrong. Can I be wrong again? What do others think? Not that we have long to wait.

Vote early and vote often!

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428 thoughts on “The 2020 US Presidential Election

  1. Alan Fox: All eyes on Georgia then. Any predictions?

    More money will be spent trying to get the Democrat Party members elected than will be spent trying to get the Republican Party members elected. Far more.

    Because, you know, the Democrat Party is the party of the rich, the famous, the elites.

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  2. newton: Trump is set on selling oil lease in the Arctic Refuge on his way out the door.

    I’ve heard that he is trying to sell the U.S. to Greenland.

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  3. Flint: Needless to say, the purpose of these lawsuits isn’t to change any votes, but to undermine public acceptance of Biden’s administration, which looks likely to cripple it, perhaps permanently…

    That would be sad. Almost as sad as what the Democrats and their never-Trump allies did. But not quite that sad. Never that sad, in fact.

    The Democrat Party persists today solely as a result of the lies they tell. If truth triumphs, then the Democrat Party is doomed.

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  4. phoodoo: Is that black hair dye streaming down your face? Or just blood from rage?

    It’s orange. 🙂

    Why the members of the Chinese Communist Party are permitted to post their racist comments here is a mystery.

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  5. Mung: I’ve heard that he is trying to sell the U.S. to Greenland.

    I ,for one ,would welcome our new frozen overlords.

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  6. phoodoo: Huh?The democrats?

    Keep up ,Phoodoo. Only Democrats are responsible for deficits. Republican cuts are just about to turn the corner and start creating a surplus. Just like COVID and dead bodies.

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  7. Mung:
    More for those who don’t mind learning a little more about the form of government we have here in the United States.

    Not Socialist. Not Democratic. Neither of those are guaranteed by the United States Constitution.

    The 15th,19th, 24th, 26th Amendments all increased the pool of eligible voters. Therefore resulting in a more democratic constitutional system.

    The 17th Amendment changed the system of selection of Senators to popular vote, another democratic constitutional guarantee.

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  8. Mung: More money will be spent trying to get the Democrat Party members elected than will be spent trying to get the Republican Party members elected. Far more.

    Because, you know, the Democrat Party is the party of the rich, the famous, the elites.

    So far the Republicans have far more money. Trump , who is rich, famous ,and elite, is busily hovering up as much cash as he can for his “ Leadership” PAC. That might the hurt the Fundraising in Georgia. The voting numbers in the general election favor the Republicans . Many moderate Republicans voted against Trump but for Republican senate candidates.

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  9. Mung:

    The Democrat Party persists today solely as a result of the lies they tell. If truth triumphs, then the Democrat Party is doomed.

    Amy Coney Barrette.

    “ just around the corner”

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  10. Mung: Do you understand the pursuit of influence? The pursuit of wealth?

    Not really. Not to the point of desperation. I don’t understand the use of exclamation marks as full stops either! I’ll never make a right-winger! Sad!

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  11. Mung: That would be sad. Almost as sad as what the Democrats and their never-Trump allies did. But not quite that sad. Never that sad, in fact.

    I presume you are referring to the witch hunt perpetrated by Mueller, Rosenstein, Wray, and Barr? All of whom are Republicans, but who’s counting? Or maybe you’re referring to the Senate Intelligence Report, produced by a Republican majority committee, which found the investigation to be both proper and necessary? Or maybe the internal DOJ investigation (under Barr) which found that (1) the investigation was fully justified; (2) nobody spied on anyone; and (3) there was in fact extremely close (but not quite illegal) coordination between the Trump campaign and the Russians?

    The Democrat Party persists today solely as a result of the lies they tell. If truth triumphs, then the Democrat Party is doomed.

    Yes, the ever-vigilant fact checkers caught Obama in a total of 18 lies in 8 years. Trump is over 22,000 lies and counting. So apparently truth is irrelevant. Meanwhile, how are all those election fraud lawsuits coming? Golly, look at all that evidence piling up! Hugo Chavez triumphs from the grave!

    Now, if you mean it’s sad that American political success necessarily rests on profound dishonesty, which attracts fanatical cultists, then I agree it’s sad. It seems accusing the opposition of every abuse you yourself commit is the key to clear thinking. You’re on the right track here.

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  12. Mung: The Democrat Party persists today solely as a result of the lies they tell. If truth triumphs, then the Democrat Party is doomed.

    You might want to reflect on how the Republican “messaging” operation has brought you to the point where you habitually refer to the Democratic Party as the Democrat Party.

    I’m an independent voter in general elections, though I’m registered to vote in Republican primaries. (At the levels of states, counties, and municipalities, there are still many decent Republicans. If not for them, Trump might have managed to steal the election.) I would love to say that the Democratic Party is just as mendacious as the Republican Party. But the two couldn’t be more different in that respect. I started referring to God’s Own Prevaricators in 2012, and the Republican lying has since gotten much worse. (However, I was impressed favorably by Jon Huntsman in the Republican presidential debates of 2012.) The emerging Left is fabulously dishonest, and is very similar to the Republican Party in its propaganda and disinformation tactics. That scares the hell out of me. But the Left is still just a small faction of the Democratic Party. I hope that the moderates (and truth) will win out.

    Here is what prompted me to comment:

    Riggleman, an outgoing congressman and one of a handful of House Republicans who are openly acknowledging Biden’s presidential win, said that the current posturing by the party is “just money-making for the 2024 election” and “completely unethical.”

    The conservative congressman said that the fear of Trump’s wrath was motivating many House Republicans to prioritize their individual careers over accepting the election results.

    “They’re worried about committee assignments, they’re worried about the team,” Riggleman said of Republicans who are standing with the president. Trump, Riggleman said, can “cost them their careers” and for many members, “the career is more important than the facts, it’s that simple.”

    Source: GOP congressman calls party’s refusal to acknowledge Biden’s win a ‘massive grift’ and says Trump ‘forgot he was serving people and not himself’

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  13. Don’t be mis-led Tom, by the lies of the Democrats. 🙂

    The DNC is dedicated to taking back the White House and electing Democrats everywhere in 2020.

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  14. fwiw, I haven’t voted since Reagan, seeing both Democrats and Republicans as being two sides of the same coin.

    In Trump I saw something different. In the opposition to Trump I saw validation for the view that Trump represented something different.

    The constant lies, by DEMOCRATS and their allies, clinched it.

    There’s nothing “democratic” about attempting to overturn the 2016 election.

    By whatever means necessary would surely include fraud in the 2020 election.

    What wouldn’t DEMOCRATS stoop to?

    I call it the Democrat Party because that’s what it is. If it was at some point in the past the Democratic Party, that’s been lost.

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  15. Mung,

    For the record (as though it matters), I’ll say that nothing the Democratic National Committee can do will keep Democrats in control of the House in 2022. Angry people turn out to vote in midterm elections.

    P.S.–It’s remarkable that the biggest and most enduring of all Republican lies — federal tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy will result in so much economic growth that federal revenues ultimately will increase — was popularized by George Gilder, a cofounder of the Discovery Institute. (The Left is now pushing a somewhat similar lie, claiming that student-loan forgiveness, increasing the federal debt, will greatly stimulate the economy. It will not.)

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  16. Mung:

    In Trump I saw something different.

    I saw him as a reaction to Obama. The Republican engaging in a exactly what the had been accusing Democrats of doing with Obama , style over substance. Sort of like what your argument is.

    In the opposition to Trump I saw validation for the view that Trump represented something different.

    He is still a Republican . Just because someone is different ,seems like a fairly bad reason to support someone for a job. They should have some competence beyond a playing a successful businessman on TV. Maybe be willing release their tax forms. Have some evidence based claims.

    As for the opposition, many felt that he was a danger to the country.His reaction to the pandemic and election seems to confirm that.Some felt a misogynistic bully might not be the best idea.

    The constant lies, by DEMOCRATS and their allies, clinched it.

    But aren’t Trump’s constant lies are what make him different and endearing? Or is it his insults that his devotees like? That imitation of that reporter’s disability never fails to be amusing.

    There’s nothing “democratic” about attempting to overturn the 2016 election.

    You might be right, sounds more like it is a Republican thing , For instance, accusing the President of not being eligible because he was born in a foreign country. Or demanding the winner of the electoral college must prove all his votes where legal before he could be considered a legitimate President. You don’t think the Republican Senate will investigate Biden?

    By whatever means necessary would surely include fraud in the 2020 election.

    If one includes widespread fraud as a viable means. It has been several weeks, so far evidence of the massive fraud is only present in tweets and press conferences, while in the Courts it has been absent. Some might say the whole fraud thing is a way to fleece the rubes of more money and to delegitimize the mandate the Biden won.

    What wouldn’t DEMOCRATS stoop to?

    No evidence of extortion of a foreign country, so far. Second all this Machiavellian genius required of the Democratic Party is hardly apparent in the real world.

    I call it the Democrat Party because that’s what it is. If it was at some point in the past the Democratic Party, that’s been lost.

    Or because you listen to Rush.

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  17. Tom English: For the record (as though it matters), I’ll say that nothing the Democratic National Committee can do will keep Democrats in control of the House in 2022. Angry people turn out to vote in midterm elections.

    What may be more important than anger is the redistricting that will occur after this Census.

    On the anger side, the Senate ,if controlled by the Republicans ,will do everything they can do to throw sand in the gears. They will be shocked that the Democratic House has forced the Republican Senate and President to run up huge deficits.

    All that said, we will be spared the damage a second Trump term would cause. That is a very good thing

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  18. Tom English: The Left is now pushing a somewhat similar lie, claiming that student-loan forgiveness, increasing the federal debt, will greatly stimulate the economy. It will not.)

    There is no scenario where the debt will not be increased, the cost of Medicare , Medicaid and Social Security are escalating. The non corporate tax cuts will expire as part of the strategy for passing Trump’s tax cut. COVID costs have yet to be quantified.

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  19. Mung:
    fwiw, I haven’t voted since Reagan, seeing both Democrats and Republicans as being two sides of the same coin.

    In Trump I saw something different. In the opposition to Trump I saw validation for the view that Trump represented something different.

    The constant lies, by DEMOCRATS and their allies, clinched it.

    There’s nothing “democratic” about attempting to overturn the 2016 election.

    By whatever means necessary would surely include fraud in the 2020 election.

    What wouldn’t DEMOCRATS stoop to?

    I call it the Democrat Party because that’s what it is. If it was at some point in the past the Democratic Party, that’s been lost.

    Posts like this leave me nearly speechless. I’m reminded of Molly Ivins’ “military deniers” who could look you in the eye, tell you you’re not there and believe it!
    Trump took lying to a whole new level. He averaged more lies per day than Obama told in 8 years!
    And here we go again. No, the Democrats never tried to overturn the 2016 election. The investigations into Russian meddling were started by Republicans, carried out by Republicans, and eventually validated by Republicans.

    This is not to say Democrats are honest. But their mendacity is utterly dwarfed by Trump’s nonstop lies. His niece wrote that he lies for fun, preferring it to the truth because it means he gets away with something. I marvel that you can write what you do while even Trump-appointed judges are laughing his lies out of one court after another.

    Like others here, I’m not at all surprised that after 4 years of spending like drunken sailors, and cutting taxes for billionaires and big corporations by 1.5 Trillion dollars, the Republicans are suddenly discovering they are the party of fiscal responsibility. They may be too cowardly to yet call Biden president-elect, but they’re already taking steps to prevent him from governing.

    But what Mung writes only underscores what we’ve been watching for years: the Trump cultists believe up is down and round is square because Trump says so. If Trump has told 22,000 lies and counting, it must be the Democrats who are dishonest! Orwell’s ghost haunts us again.

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  20. newton: All that said, we will be spared the damage a second Trump term would cause. That is a very good thing

    Agreed. However, it is clear now that the United States will not take the action required to prevent global warming from reaching extremes. Remediation is a dangerous course to take, but I’m beginning to think that political reality is forcing it upon us.

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  21. Tom English,

    You saying you are a registered republican astounds me frankly. I can’t think of a single issue that republicans get right. Can you name a few?

    The republicans are the party of debt, not the democrats. They are the party of war, the party of climate change denial. The party of destroying the environment for big business. They are the party of racism. They are the party of guns and more guns. They are the party of religious fanaticism. They are the party of hatred towards alternative lifestyles. They are the party of less personal freedom, more government spying. They are the party of capitalist greed gone wild. They are the party that wants to shield big business from public liability for their (often intentional) misdeeds and disregard for public health and safety. They are the party that doesn’t want people to earn a living wage. They are the party that hates helping others who are less fortunate, even if they are the less fortunate.

    They are the party of Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, Orrin Hatch, Jim Jordan, Pat Roberts, Pat Robertson, Dana Rohrabacher, Joe Arpiao, James Lankford, Jim Inhofe, Mary Fallin, Kevin McCarthy, Devin Nunes, Rick Santorum, Louie Gohmert, Joe Barton, Steve King, Joe Walsh, Mike Pence, Mark Meadows, John Bolton, James Sensenbrenner ,Matt Gaetz, Michele Bachman, Tom Tancredo, Tom Cotton, Mike Lee, …

    My God, how do you even get the stench off of your soul being affiliated in any way with those people?

    Name ONE good republican or one good republican platform?

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  22. phoodoo,

    But surely such upstanding citizens as Robert Mercer, Peter Thiel, Sheldon Adelson can’t all be wrong. I know some suggest there is an element of self-interest in their financial support but come on…

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  23. phoodoo: My God, how do you even get the stench off of your soul being affiliated in any way with those people?

    Whereas taking their money and being an apologist for literal concentration camps and organ stealing is ok?

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  24. phoodoo: They are the party that hates helping others who are less fortunate, even if they are the less fortunate.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/24/pope-says-for-first-time-that-chinas-uighurs-are-persecuted

    Pope Francis has for the first time called China’s Muslim Uighurs a “persecuted” people, something human rights activists have been urging him to do for years.

    Beijing has rejected the allegations as an attempt to discredit China, saying the camps are vocational education and training centres as part of counter-terrorism and deradicalisation measures.

    Zhao Lijian, a Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson, said on Tuesday that Francis’ remarks had “no factual basis at all”.

    “People of all ethnic groups enjoy the full rights of survival, development, and freedom of religious belief,” Zhao said at a daily briefing. He made no mention of the camps.

    You are not in a position to criticize anyone for their politics, given you are an apologist for organ thieves.

    Like Zhao Lijian, phoodoo has also made no mention of the camps. Presumably that would put his position in jeopardy, potentially earning him a place in one of those self same camps.

    phoodoo: They are the party of Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, Orrin Hatch, Jim Jordan, Pat Roberts, Pat Robertson, Dana Rohrabacher, Joe Arpiao, James Lankford, Jim Inhofe, Mary Fallin, Kevin McCarthy, Devin Nunes, Rick Santorum, Louie Gohmert, Joe Barton, Steve King, Joe Walsh, Mike Pence, Mark Meadows, John Bolton, James Sensenbrenner ,Matt Gaetz, Michele Bachman, Tom Tancredo, Tom Cotton, Mike Lee, …

    None of those people, as far as I’m aware, are stealing organs.

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  25. phoodoo: Tom English,

    You saying you are a registered republican astounds me frankly.

    @Tom
    Same here. Your concern for environmental issues and climate change (which I share) doesn’t quite rhyme with your support for the Republican party.

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  26. OMagain,

    I heard they are. I read it in the Epoch Times. They sell them to the Lizard people to help fund the CIA’s death squads in Afghanistan and Nicaragua. They had to turn to that after their Phoenix extermination program in Vietnam was figured out.

    The program was designed to identify and destroy the Viet Cong (VC) via infiltration, torture, capture, counter-terrorism, interrogation, and assassination.[1][2][3][4] The CIA described it as “a set of programs that sought to attack and destroy the political infrastructure of the Viet Cong”.[5] The Phoenix Program was premised on the idea that infiltration had required local support from non-combat civilian populations, which were referred to as the “political branch” that had purportedly coordinated the insurgency.[6]

    Throughout the program, Phoenix “neutralized” 81,740 people suspected of VC membership, of whom 26,369 were killed and the rest surrendered or were captured. A number of criticisms arose regarding the Phoenix Program, including the number of neutral civilians killed, the nature of the program (which critics have labelled as a “civilian assassination program”,[6]) the use of torture and other coercive methods, and the program being exploited for personal politics

    I am not sure why you are such an apologist for government torturers, but maybe it has something to do with Monica Seles.

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  27. Tom English: Agreed. However, it is clear now that the United States will not take the action required to prevent global warming from reaching extremes. Remediation is a dangerous course to take, but I’m beginning to think that political reality is forcing it upon us.

    75 million American voters are happy about that state of affairs.

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  28. DNA_Jock,

    I have known about Bill Weld for a long time and always figured he was a decent man. The republican party in Massachusetts seems to have a slightly different meaning then most of the rest of the country for some reason.

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  29. DNA_Jock,

    However, I would still ask either of them, what platforms of the party do they think are good. Because if one only believes in one or two of a party’s platforms and still sticks around in that party, I find that to be pretty weird.

    Do they believe in unfettered access to all guns? To denying a woman’s right to choose? Are they against a minimum wage? Do they like more military spending? They are against environmental protections? Do they want to shield big business from public accountability lawsuits? Are they against gay rights? Do they want to cut social security? They are against universal medical care? Do they hate giving food stamps to people who are disabled or poor?

    How many of the republican policies can they possibly justify to keep them in that party? Is one policy enough to keep you in a party if you don’t believe in 20 of their other platforms? I am very curious about people who have made that calculation.

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  30. phoodoo,

    Well, phoodoo, welcome to the world of politics and the resulting compromises. Glad that you recognize that Bill Weld is a Republican and a decent man. That was, after all, the challenge that you threw out.

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  31. DNA_Jock:
    phoodoo,

    Well, phoodoo, welcome to the world of politics and the resulting compromises. Glad that you recognize that Bill Weld is a Republican and a decent man. That was, after all, the challenge that you threw out.

    I think most Republicans are decent people, as are most Democrats. But the politically elected among both of them aren’t about to commit political hara-kiri as a matter of principle, knowing their replacement will have learned better (if he/she doesn’t know already). I note that numerous Republicans in Congress have told Ron Klain to congratulate Biden for them, because their careers prohibit them from doing so out loud where Trump can tweet at them.

    Mark Shields said that Washington was the President who couldn’t tell a lie, Nixon was the President who couldn’t tell the truth, and Trump is the President who can’t tell the difference. If Mung is any indication, Trump’s worshipers can’t either. Every Trump rally, there are several news interviews with attendees, who invariably dismiss the truth as “fake news”. As Biden asked, “what the hell is wrong with these people?”

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  32. DNA_Jock:
    phoodoo,

    Well, phoodoo, welcome to the world of politics and the resulting compromises. Glad that you recognize that Bill Weld is a Republican and a decent man. That was, after all, the challenge that you threw out.

    First off, I asked TOM who HE thinks is a decent man and still a Republican-with the intention being for him to explain why he thinks being a republican is good.

    You can certainly do the same, explain why you think Weld is good. Is it because 90 percent of the policies he supports are actually democrat ones? So its not a challenge. Its not some silly little math puzzle for fun. I am asking him why he supports republicans. What is his model for a good republican, and if his model for a good republican is one who has almost entirely democratic ideas, but oh, he likes less taxes for companies, that’s what’s the reason for not being a democrat, whom you may agree with 90 percent of the time, and disagreeing with them about taxes on business, instead of being a republican and disagreeing with them on 90 percent of their policies.

    Since its Tom making the compromise, I guess he can explain what compromise he is willing to make for what, one policy, two policies?

    I notice you didn’t bother to list one good republican platform, so I assume you like Weld because he wants to decriminalize pot? Or you like his hair?

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  33. Tom English: I’m an independent voter in general elections, though I’m registered to vote in Republican primaries. (At the levels of states, counties, and municipalities, there are still many decent Republicans. If not for them, Trump might have managed to steal the election.) I would love to say that the Democratic Party is just as mendacious as the Republican Party. But the two couldn’t be more different in that respect. I started referring to God’s Own Prevaricators in 2012, and the Republican lying has since gotten much worse.

    phoodoo: You saying you are a registered republican astounds me frankly.

    Corneel: Same here. Your concern for environmental issues and climate change (which I share) doesn’t quite rhyme with your support for the Republican party.

    I’m surprised that you seize on one clause, and miss the overall import. I am strongly opposed to the Republican Party, as a national institution, but recognize that there are huge differences among Republicans. In Oklahoma, most political races are decided in the Republican primary elections. That is, the Republican nominee, selected in the primary, usually wins in the general election. Thus, to have a genuine say in who gains office, I must vote in the Republican primaries. And to do that, I must register as a Republican with the county election office.

    Having the word “Republican” printed on my voter registration card, and voting to nominate the better of Republican candidates, does not make me a supporter of the Republican Party. I’m in fact a realist and a pragmatist — the quintessential RINO (Republican in name only). If I lived in a closed-primary state dominated by Democrats, I would be a DINO instead.

    Phoodoo includes James Lankford, the junior U.S. senator from Oklahoma, and Mary Fallin, a former governor of Oklahoma, in his list of awful Republicans. It is possible that Fallin will run to replace Lankford in 2022. I am no fan of Lankford, but I have to say that he is vastly preferable to Fallin. Recognizing that there’s no Democrat in the state who could beat Lankford or Fallin, either one, the responsible thing to do would be to vote for the less offensive of the two in the primary election, and then vote for the Democratic candidate in the general election.

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  34. Flint: I think most Republicans are decent people

    Most politicians? Jock was able to name two who he thinks might be decent people. Of those two, both of their policies are almost indistinguishable from democrats. I think it would be much harder to name a decent republican who also shares beliefs in most republican ideas.

    I could name 50 democrats we I believe are decent people, and their polices are all democrat ones. However I don’t think Joe Lieberman is a decent person. I don’t think Joe Manchin is a decent person. I think they are both schemers who are much more interested in their own self interests and the interests of power, then they are for doing the right thing.

    I think it is no coincidence that Joe Manchin’s daughter is the person responsible for raising the price of an important drug for people with allergies by nearly 500%, because well she could. She also moved the company overseas to avoid taxes because she could. At the same time she also took an increase of her own salary by over 650% percent, because she could. I think she learned her ethics from her father-who in my mind is a republican, but who has calculated that it is easier for him to win if he says he is a democrat.

    So to say that most republicans and most democrats are good (as far as politicians are concerned) I see no evidence for that. I think most republican politicians are bad people, and finding ones that are good is the exception, not the rule. Naming bad republicans is almost as easy as naming republicans. Because the republican platform is one almost by definition, of self-interest, greed and derision towards certain groups of society.

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  35. phoodoo:
    Since its Tom making the compromise, I guess he can explain what compromise he is willing to make for what, one policy, two policies?

    I notice you didn’t bother to list one good republican platform, so I assume you like Weld because he wants to decriminalize pot? Or you like his hair?

    Unlike many European countries, the US has single-member districts, which necessitates a 2-party system in practice. If you look at party platforms (and proposed planks for them), you see something I find discouraging. The political sphere is composed of every issue for which some law or regulation or policy is apposite. No single party can accommodate even a fraction of any individual citizen’s preferences.

    Hopefully not to oversimplify, we are all some combination of conservative, liberal, and libertarian. It’s very common in the US for voters to be fiscally conservative (smaller deficits or balanced budget, reduction of pork, etc.) yet socially liberal (legalize pot, oppose discrimination even on religious grounds, strive for racial equality, etc.) On the other hand, we have a good many single-issue voters, selecting candidates solely on their position toward abortion or police brutality.

    We are also becoming a nation of distinct echo chambers which no longer seem to cross-pollinate. Used to be, liberal and conservative media covered news with different slants or spins. Now, there is little overlap in what is considered news at all.

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  36. Tom English,

    This is a fair and practical explanation for your decision. In fact it seems like the only thing that could make any sense at all.

    A quick look at Lankford’s policies:

    He fully supports the NRA.
    He is against giving women the right to choose.
    He wants more money spent on the military, but less taxes for almost everyone except for hardworking low and middle class families (so he thinks a sales tax is a better way-so that they pay most of their taxes on food-but he opposes an estate tax-because he is a fuckwad).
    He is against health care for all.
    He opposes gay and lesbian rights.
    He opposes almost all legislation to protect the environment from big business.

    I understand Tom’s dilemma, but I could never imagine having to vote for this guy. But I am not entirely sure of Tom’s strategy. Maybe he should vote for the absolute worst republican-imagine how bad that person must be-and then hope they have at least some chance of being rejected by people with a scintilla of morality. Think Roy Moore.

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  37. Flint,

    Well, the “challenge” as Jock called it was to name some thing good about republicans. I was waiting to hear Tom defend their policies. As it turns out, he wasn’t defending their policies at all, he was trying to prevent them from implementing their worst policies as much as possible. That explains it.

    So I still stand by my contention that their is nothing good about republican platforms. The idea that they are the party of austerity is really just a fake con game. They like to spend money, they just want it for bombs that say USA USA USA all over them. And for police to beat up black people. That’s their platform.

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  38. phoodoo: Most politicians?

    NO, and not what I said.

    So to say that most republicans and most democrats are good (as far as politicians are concerned) I see no evidence for that.I think most republican politicians are bad people, and finding ones that are good is the exception, not the rule.Naming bad republicans is almost as easy as naming republicans.Because the republican platform is one almost by definition, of self-interest, greed and derision towards certain groups of society.

    Several problems here. First, Trumpies and Republicans have little overlap. Much has been written of how traditional Republican voters are distressed that they must choose between a charlatan and a progressive. Here in Alabama, Doug Jones won in a very low-turnout election because most of our citizens found themselves trying to choose between a baby-killer (Jones supports abortion rights) and a child molester (Moore had a checkered history). Tuberville won because he is neither, and nobody cared that he’d never read the constitution or knew the judiciary was part of the government. He’s against queers, negroes, women’s rights, voting rights, and health insurance. He’s our man!

    Second, I tried to make it clear that I was talking about people, not politicians. And even then I think most politicians are decent people trying to please conflicting views and goals of their constituents. Fear of losing an election (the primary driving force for all politicians) requires hypocrisy and prevarication. I would invite you to have a conversation with one. I have, and like Will Rogers, I’ve never met a politician I didn’t like. His policy positions and voting record are another matter.

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  39. phoodoo:
    So I still stand by my contention that their is nothing good about republican platforms.The idea that they are the party of austerity is really just a fake con game.They like to spend money, they just want it for bombs that say USA USA USA all over them.And for police to beat up black people.That’s their platform.

    I agree Republicans only care about austerity when Democrats are in power. But your claim about the police is a parody, making you look stupid. NOBODY wants crime, not even criminals. There may be some police who enjoy beating people up, but most of them really are interested in public safety.

    Racial influences on law enforcement are enormously complex, and thick well-researched books have been written about them. Suffice to say that it’s not the police who have created and now preserve a social and economic system that ensures that blacks stay poor, uneducated, and perpetually under suspicion of criminal intent and violence by whites. There is a positive feedback process, which perpetuates mutual fear and distrust between blacks and police. If Republicans are guilty here, it’s in doing what you just did – reducing a complicated dynamic into a slogan that misses the point.

    (And we might note that a very large majority of blacks do NOT support defunding the police. They want public safety too.)

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  40. Flint: He’s against queers, negroes, women’s rights, voting rights, and health insurance

    Oh, but that doesn’t mean he is not a good person, right?

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  41. If you had to take a wild wild guess, you know just out of the blue, what political party do you think the police union head supports?
    Do you think this guy
    Is a beacon of good police community relations? He is probably still a nice guy.

    Mitch McConnell, nice guy just confused. Lindsay Graham, nice guy, just evil.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/20
    20/06/09/ny_police_union_head_stop_treating_us_like_animals_and_thugs_and_start_treating_us_with_respect.html#!

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  42. phoodoo: But I am not entirely sure of Tom’s strategy. Maybe he should vote for the absolute worst republican-imagine how bad that person must be-and then hope they have at least some chance of being rejected by people with a scintilla of morality. Think Roy Moore.

    Think of the presidential primaries in 2016, when I was still registered as an independent voter. If I had attempted to subvert the Republican Party, then I would have changed my registration, and voted for Donald Trump in the primary. How do you suppose I would feel now if I’d actually helped Trump win nomination?

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  43. phoodoo: I am not sure why you are such an apologist for government torturers, but maybe it has something to do with Monica Seles.

    What happened to the VC is, presumably, a bad thing?

    And you bring it up because I referenced the concentration camps you have no problem with.

    Therefore you are actually admitting that what I am referencing is also a bad thing. So, in response to the bad things happening now you reference a bad thing that happened in the past.

    Yet you don’t actually admit that concentration camps are a bad thing, but you respond with another example of such as if they are.

    phoodoo: I heard they are. I read it in the Epoch Times. They sell them to the Lizard people to help fund the CIA’s death squads in Afghanistan and Nicaragua. They had to turn to that after their Phoenix extermination program in Vietnam was figured out.

    There is extensive documentation of organ theft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China

    There are even films. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Harvest_(film)

    Here’s a simple question for you phoodoo that won’t make you think:

    How many registered organ donors are there in China and how many organ transplants are performed a year?

    Simple question. Terrifying answer.

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