President Trump?

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I’ve been following the current round of US primaries with some interest. Not ever having visited the US, I have no business criticizing the system or the candidates but I must admit to being fascinated by the progress of Donald Trump and the seemingly growing possibility that he may become the Republican presidential candidate. Presumably, there is also the possibility that he could become the next President of the United States.

I see that Vladimir Putin encouraged the Russian media to talk up his candidacy whereas the leaders and media of the Chinese Republic have taken to mocking him. Donald Trump does seem to be able to divide and polarize opinion. We are living in interesting times.

It seems widely accepted that a presidential candidate who openly espoused atheism would stand no chance of being elected. But what about a candidate with a comb-over? Can Donald Trump’s hair get elected? Inquiring minds need to know. I see arguments from political commentators that Trump is only popular with a small majority of republican voters and unpopular with most democrat voters, so Trump has no chance of becoming president. What do our US TSZ members think? Should the World be worried?

PS I’m committed to a project this summer and will have to relinquish admin duties as soon as Lizzie finds a replacement and won’t have time for more than the odd comment from now on. Lizzie welcomes contributions from anyone sharing her aims on free, open discussion. So please anyone who would like to publish an OP who doesn’t already have author status, just ask.

Let’s make this an open thread!

136 thoughts on “President Trump?”

  3. walto:
    I note that Patrick’s last ‘Trump shoul’d be trusted more than any other politician’ post is an additional whitewash. There are liars, damn liars, politicians, and then Donald Trump.

    From Merriam-Webster, whitewash means:
    2 a : to gloss over or cover up (as vices or crimes)
    b : to exonerate by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data

    I’m doing neither and your baseless accusation is a violation of the site rules.

    I don’t Guano comments directed at me, so I’ll simply note that your repeated unsupported claims say a great deal more about your (lack of) character than they do about me or my positions.

  4. Patrick: If Johnson (or whoever the LP nominee is) gets into the presidential debates, everything is up for grabs.

    It promises to be an interesting general election either way, but having a third candidate on the stage would certainly give it a very different dynamic. In particular when that candidate is not beholden to nearly as large a bloc of special interests as Clinton or Trump (or any other prospective major party candidates).

  5. Patrick: From Merriam-Webster, whitewash means:
    2 a :to gloss over or cover up (as vices or crimes)
    b :to exonerate by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data

    I’m doing neither and your baseless accusation is a violation of the site rules.

    I don’t Guano comments directed at me, so I’ll simply note that your repeated unsupported claims say a great deal more about your (lack of) character than they do about me or my positions.

    Referring to someone’s alleged “lack of character” is a rule violation, Patrick. Your sanctimony is never matched by your consistency.

    And, again, all your posts regarding Trump have been whitewashes as anyone who can understand the definitions you posted can easily see.

  6. walto:
    And, again, all your posts regarding Trump have been whitewashes as anyone who can understand the definitions you posted can easily see.

    Proof by repeated assertion is singularly unconvincing.

  8. With the notable exception of the statement “I find it fascinating that CNN, for example, can blame Trump for the violence at his rallies when those initiating the violence are on camera wearing Bernie Sanders logo.”, I don’t think Patrick has done any whitewashing of Trump.
    His statements have been more along the lines of “the guy’s not all bad”, and importantly “you should confirm that he actually holds the positions you think he holds”.
    In the same vein, it would not be a whitewash to point out that a particular politician as never touched a scrap of meat. A little too ambitious, maybe, but…

  9. DNA_Jock:
    With the notable exception of the statement “I find it fascinating that CNN, for example, can blame Trump for the violence at his rallies when those initiating the violence are on camera wearing Bernie Sanders logo.”, I don’t think Patrick has done any whitewashing of Trump.

    Thanks. To clarify, I’m not suggesting that Trump supporters haven’t been violent. I was thinking in particular of the Chicago incident where the violence was initiated by the anti-Trump protesters, many of whom were wearing Sanders’ logos, who had come with the express intention of disrupting the rally. I did not see the mainstream media pointing that out. Somehow the choice of those people to be violent was Trump’s fault.

    His statements have been more along the lines of “the guy’s not all bad”, and importantly “you should confirm that he actually holds the positions you think he holds”.

    The second phrase is what I intended. As far as being “all bad”, hey, he might be. The bias I’m seeing in the media makes it hard to tell.

  10. Trump has benefited his whole life from media attention, just as he has done during this campaign.

  11. DNA_Jock: His statements have been more along the lines of “the guy’s not all bad”, and importantly “you should confirm that he actually holds the positions you think he holds”.
    In the same vein, it would not be a whitewash to p

    DNA, as the numerous links I posted indicate you can’t either tell whether or not the “guy is not all bad” or confirm any of the positions he holds. The suggestion that we can pay attention to the claims on his website is, IMO, nothing more than a whitewash.

  12. walto:

    [Patrick sez] … your repeated unsupported claims say a great deal more about your (lack of) character …

    Referring to someone’s alleged “lack of character” is a rule violation, Patrick. Your sanctimony is never matched by your consistency.

    It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

  13. Re Hillary Clinton again, Sanders has pointed out eloquently that speeches and “positions” are easy. What matters is what someone will actually do, and Clinton has shifted numerous times on matters ranging from regulation of financial entities, to trade to foreign affairs. Still, she has an actual record, and hasn’t waffled on every single thing–so it’s possible to have some sense where one can find her on issues. She’s a left-center opportunist. As I said above, I really wish she’d hung it up in 2008 so the Dems could have found a candidate without so many negatives.

    But with Trump there’s nothing whatever. As a businessman, he’s been a crook, as a politico he’s supported and opposed nearly everybody and everything he’s ever talked about, as candidate, he’s said any and everything–so long as it riles people up, and as a statesman, he has no record whatever. He’s not particularly bright, he’s inconsistent, and he’s obnoxious. That’s about it.

  18. I’m a lifelong republican and conservative. I define a successful businessman as not only being affluent and profitable but delivering quality goods and services to society at a fair price — Henry Ford was a successful businessman.

    Some of Trumps businesses are casinos. Casinos prey on the stupid and desperate. The only people who beat casinos are the extremely lucky or the mathematically sophisticated gamblers who usually don’ t need the money (several of the most successful blackjack players are millionaires or billionaires like Bill Gross).

    In the process of giving a talk to my church and Noah’s flood and looking for youtubes demonstrating the decline of culture I found this video of Trump beating someone up and then shaving his opponents head after a wrestling match. Granted this was only a show and an act, but was Trump just acting the part, because it seems to fit him so well. The performance struck me as authentic Trump.

    OK, I admit, I found the whole thing entertaining. I vote for Trump being a regular in WWE events. 🙂 Go Donald! Trump Trump Trump the next WWE sensation!

  20. stcordova: I’m a lifelong republican and conservative. I define a successful businessman as not only being affluent and profitable but delivering quality goods and services to society at a fair price — Henry Ford was a successful businessman.

    That used to be the definition of a successful businessman.

    Today a successful businessman is one who delivers high profits to the shareholders, and damn the quality goods, damn the service to the public and damn fair prices.

    This change is business is brought to you by the conservative Christians who formed an unholy and unchristian alliance with economic conservatives and with racists.

    So shame on you. Conservative Christians need to own Donald Trump. They helped destroy what was a far saner Republican party. Conservative Christianity has become decidely unChristian. Shame on you and on those like you who bought into this Faustian bargain.

  22. This change is business is brought to you by the conservative Christians who formed an unholy and unchristian alliance with economic conservatives

    Atheist TJ Rodgers of Cypress semi-conductor is my kind of economic conservative — from the Ayn Rand school of atheism.

    I commended Rodgers for lambasting at Catholic Nun:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB837379519825209500

    It isn’t every day that the CEO of a major high-tech company calls a nun’s views “immoral.”
    ….
    “You ought to get down from your moral high horse,” he continues in the letter to Sister Doris Gormley of the Sisters of St. Francis of Philadelphia.

    “Your views seem more accurately described as ‘politically correct,’ than ‘Christian.’ ” he writes. “Choosing a Board of Directors based on race and gender is a lousy way to run a company. Cypress will never do it.” He adds for good measure that “bowing” to “special-interest groups is an immoral way to run a company …”

    Mr. Rodgers’ six-page letter, which he distributed to Cypress shareholders, has clearly hit home with his readers, who are passing it along an underground network of disgruntled veterans of the affirmative-action debate. Once dubbed the “bad boy of Silicon Valley,” Mr. Rodgers, 48 years old, makes a habit of publishing provocative editorial-style articles on everything from proposed immigration restrictions to federal support of the high-tech industry — he is against both. But his attack on Sister Doris has yielded a greater response than all his other articles combined, he says.

    So far he has received roughly 200 letters, and each day the postman lugs more to the Silicon Valley campus of Cypress, an international distributor of semiconductors with about $600 million in annual sales. Only about 15 letters have been critical of his views. The chairmen of Hewlett-Packard Co. and Advanced Micro Devices Inc., as well as many other top corporate executives, have written to congratulate him. “Splendid letter,” chimed in Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman. “Amen,” was the complete text of another letter, although the word made an appearance in many others.

    My kind of bad boy CEO.

  26. It IS a pdf and it’s well under 200MB, but I’m getting this error message:

    ERROR: File you upload must be valid file type (jpg, gif, png, pdf, mp3), and under 200MB!

    Oh, well, if you go to today’s Boston Globe, you’ll find a link on their front page to a likely front page during a Trump presidency.

  27. walto:
    Oh, well, if you go to today’s Boston Globe, you’ll find a link on their front page to a likely front page during a Trump presidency.

    Holy Maloney. When I typed Boston … into the google bar, the first result was “Boston Globe Trump”. Glad to see this is popular.

    Headlines:
    DEPORTATIONS TO BEGIN
    President Trump calls for tripling of ICE force, riots continue
    US Soldiers refuse orders to kill ISIS families
    and
    Markets Sink as Trade War Looms

    “Worldwide stocks plunged again Friday, completing the worst month on record as trade wars with both China and Mexico seem imminent.”

    The NYTimes goes on to explain

    The editorial called the billionaire businessman a “demagogue” whose own political vision is “profoundly un-American.” And it cast his closest rival for the 2016 Republican nomination, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, as “equally extreme” and urged Republicans, at the party’s nominating convention in July, to draft a “plausible, honorable” alternative, suggesting House Speaker Paul Ryan or former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts.

    Well, that is rather the problem, isn’t it. Plausible, maybe, but honorable? No way. There isn’t a prominent Republican in the country who is any more honorable than a street thug. Less, actually, because some street thugs have a code of honor which at least protects their own people. Republican politicians, not at all.

  28. Blimey, how time flies! Was thinking the Donald must be coming up to his first year and it turns out it was a couple of months ago. Well, it hasn’t been too bad so far. 😏

    Must have a look upthread to see who was accurate with their predictions.

  29. I’m sure if your buddy Patrick were here, he’d still be defending that corrupt, megalomaniacal, dimwitted dipshit. After all, Trump does what the NRA wants and is deleting environmental regulations as fast as he can. And he gave rich people a big tax cut to boot. He’s got complete dunderheads with no idea what they’re supposed to be doing at the head of every executive agency. And maybe school teachers will have guns soon. What’s not to like?

  30. walto,
    Well, Patrick no longer participates here so I’m not going to visit that.

    But re Trump, is there anyone who predicted how bad things would be? And to cap it all, Stormy Daniels!

  31. Alan Fox:
    walto,
    Well, Patrick no longer participates here so I’m not going to visit that.

    But re Trump, is there anyone who predicted how bad things would be? And to cap it all, Stormy Daniels!

    Everyone I know who is well-informed and on the political Left understood immediately what a complete and utter clusterfuck the Trump administration was going to be. Stormy Daniels is pretty much the only thing we didn’t predict, but it hasn’t surprised any of us. It’s completely consistent with Trump’s history and character.

  32. Kantian Naturalist: Everyone I know who is well-informed and on the political Left understood immediately what a complete and utter clusterfuck the Trump administration was going to be.

    I can sympathize. It must have been very similar as experiencing the slow train wreck that is Brexit. You watch it happen and appear helpless to prevent, ameliorate or reverse it. You need a viable alternative.

  33. Kantian Naturalist: Stormy Daniels is pretty much the only thing we didn’t predict, but it hasn’t surprised any of us.

    And what about the Facebook-Cambridge Analytica-Robert Mercer-Steve Bannon morass?

  34. I would just like to note that when I supported Patrick’s claim that he was not “whitewashing” Trump, I did throw a little shade, too.

    DNA_Jock: In the same vein, it would not be a whitewash to point out that a particular politician as never touched a scrap of meat. A little too ambitious, maybe, but…

    was a Boomtown Rat’s reference 😉

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