On the thread entitled “Species Kinds”, commenter phoodoo asks:
What’s the definition of a species?
A simple question but hard to answer. Talking of populations of interbreeding individuals immediately creates problems when looking at asexual organisms, especially the prokaryotes: bacteria and archaea. How to delineate a species temporally is also problematic. Allan Miller links to an excellent basic resource on defining a species and the Wikipedia entry does not shy away from the difficulties.
In case phoodoo thought his question was being ignored, I thought I’d open this thread to allow discussion without derailing the thread on “kinds”.
amen brother
peace
Mung makes my point for me:
Yes, and creating disaster for his children is exactly what every loving father sets out to do. Right, Mung?
Nothing says “I love you” like drowning someone or wiping out their possessions.
quote:
the Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could it be that He should have a child without there ever having been a mate for Him – since it is He who has created everything, and He alone knows everything? – Sura 6:101
and
and say: “All praise is due to God, who begets no offspring, and has no partner in His dominion, and has no weakness, and therefore no need of any aid” -and [thus] extol His limitless greatness. – Sura 17:111
end quote:
😉
peace
It is essential because pi is intrinsic to the circle whereas a sphere is extrinsic to it.
Get it keiths ?
A loving father is not the default understanding of God. Not by a long shot.
To know him as Father you need to have met his Son. Once you have met his Son you are simply not dissuaded when bad things happen.
peace
fifth shoots himself in the foot again.
Keep going, fifth. I need to get my truck smog checked. In the meantime, keep loading the fish into the barrel for me.
keiths is still trying to convince himself, though in the guise of trying to convince others. He’s clueless when it comes to why his arguments fail to convince theists.
Even in the parable of the prodigal son where you have a son in dire straights you don’t see the “loving father” that keiths wants to have.
Do you have any arguments for maintaining the flawed darwinistic definition? I’d sure like to hear them.
Do you have any arguments as to why biological species are fundamentally different than groupings of geometric objects we encounter in the world?
peace
That is the only reason I can come up with as well.
I think He got just enough gospel as a child that he is haunted by it and he spends the rest of his days trying to get rid of the nagging impression that he is missing something.
peace
I hate to tell you this, but all manner of shapes can have a ratio of pi between some interior dimension and their perimeters. Circles are only special because they are defined as having radii, meaning that the circle is the set of points in a plane at a constant distance from the center. That’s way more essential than pi. Further, circles only have that relation to pi in Euclidean spaces. Not essential at all. Your attempt to defend the Platonic ideal, even for circles, is laughable. And attempt to defend it for species would be orders of magnitude more laughable.
Huh??
Did you say, “Fraddale, malamackash, ikkinbock walla”? Because that is what it sounds like to me.
Your word choice astounds me.
“Why oh why couldn’t God build a world where trucks don’t need to be smog checked? What would be so hard about that? And couldn’t he make an infinite gas tank, I don’t like going to the gas station.”
Poor phoodoo is still trying to change the subject.
Come on, phoodoo. Be brave and tell us. If you loved someone, would you show your love by drowning them? By wiping out their possessions and leaving them homeless?
Though you won’t admit it, I’m sure the answer is “no”.
So what’s your God’s problem? If mere humans are decent enough not to do those things, why does he? Why is he such an ass?
God is supposed to be morally superior to humans. You ought to be able to point to his behavior with pride. Instead you’re ashamed of it, and you have no rational explanation for it, which is why you keep trying to change the subject.
phoodoo:
Alan:
Yes, and as we’ve discussed before, it’s a major reason for your ineffectiveness in these debates. Skilled skeptics routinely adopt their opponents’ positions, temporarily and for the sake of argument. They are able to do this without confusing their opponents’ positions with their own.
You seem to have a lot of trouble with this, and it puts you at a distinct disadvantage.
I had no idea skepticism was so complicated, wouldn’t it be easier just to make up your opponent’s position rather than adopt their actual position? No chance of confusion that way.
Seems more useful than what He is spending his time doing
“A dangerous new form of antibiotic resistance has spread to the United States, according to a report published Thursday. Researchers at the Department of Defense announced that a Pennsylvania woman developed a urinary tract infection (UTI) with bacteria that fought off an antibiotic of last resort called colistin, and had 15 genes for resistance to other antibiotics. Until now, many bacteria have been vulnerable to colistin, even if they have been able to survive other medications. Since this type of resistance can easily spread between bacteria, the findings have sounded alarm bells among scientists over fears that common infections will soon be untreatable.”
I think you are projecting.
Well the fact that no physical representation of the circle can completely attain the nature of the ideal circle demonstrates that the ideal circle is not a physical object.
Or the ideal circle does not exist
Not sure about objectively but real enough
If I was to choose between the ideal whiskey and whiskey I can drink, I think the later is more real. My ideal self might disagree.
In keiths v. God maybe. Here’s a bit of news for you. It’s not a morality contest.
LoL. You fail.
How many babies did you refuse to allow to be born?
How can you be so evil?
Mung:
Right. God is supposed to be vastly superior to humans, in moral terms. Perfect, in fact. It it isn’t supposed to be a contest at all.
So how do you explain God’s dismal performance?
God’s behavior should be a source of pride for Christians. Instead they’re ashamed of it. So ashamed that they don’t even want to talk about it.
phoodoo,
Everyone following this discussion knows
a) that you are avoiding my questions; and
b) that it’s because you, like Mung, are ashamed of your God’s behavior and have no good explanation for it.
Why do you believe in a loving God, phoodoo?
Be brave and tell us. If you loved someone, would you show your love by drowning them? By wiping out their possessions and leaving them homeless?
So what’s your God’s problem? If mere humans are decent enough not to do those things, why does he? Why is he such an ass?
How can you call it a dismal performance, if you can’t even articulate what a good performance would be? That’s your problem keiths.
How much does God have to do for you to call it good? You have dodged this question from the very start, and its why everything you attempt to argue after that is meaningless.
You only hint at a description of good seems to be infinite brains in a vat, having orgasms all day. Maybe there is not enough room for infinite. Maybe its a contradiction that can’t be overcome.
I don’t think you have a description of a good God frankly. Your list of demands is unending. So your position is meaningless.
phoodoo,
This is extremely easy to understand, but you need to set aside the “I’ll swallow any dogma, no matter how ridiculous” blinders.
God supposedly loves us. Even a rather dim human — Mung, say — knows that drowning people, or wiping out their homes and possessions, is not a loving thing to do.
Why — besides the fact that you’re a gullible sucker — do you believe that God is loving, when his behavior is anything but? It makes no sense, and you certainly have no explanation.
Hence your rather desperate attempts to change the subject.
Be brave and tell us. If you loved someone, would you show your love by drowning them? By wiping out their possessions and leaving them homeless?
So what’s your God’s problem? If mere humans are decent enough not to do those things, why does he? Why is he such an ass?
Well that would depend on what the intent was. What the goal was – what the effectiveness was being directed towards or against. I have often asked you what your goal was in posting the genre of comments you write here. Without knowing that, it’s hard to judge effectiveness. Hard to judge even then, probably.
*chuckles* Who is my opponent? I’m not fighting with anyone.
Against whom? Robert Byers? Sal? Do I care?
The subject of the thread, by the way, is “species”. Why not start a thread that properly challenges Christianity and publish the challenge widely? Let’s get it out in the open and not hidden away in the tail of a thread on a different subject.
keiths,
So you still can’t articulate the attributes of a good God then, huh keiths?
Alan Fox,
He has tried that.
It doesn’t work because he can’t say what good means.
Alan,
Your intent was to argue for your position and against the one with which you were disagreeing. For example, when you were arguing against my Cartesian skepticism but were confused by the Sentinel Islander thought experiment and unable to separate its relevant aspects from the inconsequential ones.
Your opponent is the person you are arguing against, Alan. This is not difficult.
Yes. You care deeply, which is why you will go to such ridiculous lengths to deny your mistakes, even when they are painfully obvious.
Where?
Your Sentinel Islander “experiment” was flawed. You dropped the discussion as I recall.
I tend to think of opponents as someone I’m fighting against. Discussion is for learning something new, especially how other people think. I still wonder what your intent is when you approach every encounter with other members as a confrontation.
…thanks!
Aren’t you supposed to be preparing something for newton on these lines?
phoodoo,
Since you are afraid to answer my questions, I will go ahead and give the answers I think an honest believer would give.
If you disagree with those answers, you can always supply your own. That, however, would mean answering the questions yourself, a notion which is sure to strike fear into your heart.
Question:
Honest answer:
Question:
Honest answer:
Question:
Honest answer:
Question:
Honest answer:
Question:
Honest answer:
So how about you, phoodoo? I’ll bet your answers — if you were being totally honest — would be a lot like the ones I just gave.
Alan,
Yes, although your frantic and childish denial of mistakes is just part of it.
Odd that you’re eager to remind me, considering how badly it always turns out for you.
keiths,
You mean you want to give a straw man position of my beliefs, and then answer your strawman? That’s you way of getting out of explaining what good is?
Let me know when you have a definition of a good God, so we can have something to discuss.
keiths:
Alan:
Then you are either poorly acquainted with standard English usage, or are pretending to be.
From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of opponent
1
: one that takes an opposite position (as in a debate, contest, or conflict) She is a formidable opponent in the race for senator. opponents of the war
*chuckles* You do love your hyperbole!
I wouldn’t want folks to think that I was silently hoping you would forget.
phoodoo:
No. As I said:
Be brave, phoodoo.
Opposite position? Am I taking an opposite position with someone and defending it in this thread?. I did not know that? Who am I opposing here?
Let me know when you are. What’s a good God? Its that hard for you?
Alan,
Lol. You need my help to answer those questions?
Thank-you Keiths for starting a thread where the Christian bashing can continue!
I’d be interested in who you think I’m opposing, yes.
Alan,
You finally noticed the new thread?
keiths,
Finally?
It shows today’s date. Have you changed it? Was it there before?
Alan,
I’ll let you struggle with that on your own. Hint: reading the comments might help.
keiths,
Another offer you fail to fulfill. 🙂
Alan,
Yes. It was there before you showed up, and you’ve finally noticed it.