On the thread entitled “Species Kinds”, commenter phoodoo asks:
What’s the definition of a species?
A simple question but hard to answer. Talking of populations of interbreeding individuals immediately creates problems when looking at asexual organisms, especially the prokaryotes: bacteria and archaea. How to delineate a species temporally is also problematic. Allan Miller links to an excellent basic resource on defining a species and the Wikipedia entry does not shy away from the difficulties.
In case phoodoo thought his question was being ignored, I thought I’d open this thread to allow discussion without derailing the thread on “kinds”.
J-Mac:
I don’t believe in God or Satan or any other beings capable of conjuring up such storms, so my answer is “no one”.
However, for a Christian who believes in a sovereign, almighty, omniscient God, the only coherent answer is that God is responsible.
In the case of the Job story, God is the doofus who took Satan’s bet, knowing full well what the consequences would be, and he likewise allowed the storm in Matthew. The responsibility is his.
J-Mac,
The Augustinian argument wouldn’t help you even if it were correct. A loving father does not stand by, doing nothing, if he knows his children are in peril and he can do something to help them. That’s true even if he himself is not responsible for the danger his childen are in.
Isn’t that obvious?
Which is true.
keiths wanted maps, I gave him a map. It validated what I said.
Further:
What do the Texans say?
HHS Region Map
So I am right. But keiths will be keiths, because that’s what he does. lol.
Any fool can laugh. I should know. The fact is, I was right. Go ahead. Admit it. 🙂
keiths,
Thanks. I was just curios…
If God is omniscient, then he knew in advance that Adam and Eve would sin…and staged the whole encounter pretending not to know that they had sinned…
Something is fishy about this…not that you would care…
J-Mac,
I do care. I was raised a Missouri Synod Lutheran, and I actually believed the Adam and Eve story as a child.
My entire journey from evangelical Christian to atheist is a result of all the fishiness I discovered at the heart of the faith, once I was old enough to think about it rationally.
I repeat:
So not only is Houston obviously in southeast Texas (note the lowercase ‘s’), as I said. It’s also in Southeast Texas, the named region [as PeterP’s link shows]. Mung is wrong either way.
Augustine again:
We’re laughing, Mung.
Did you read the fine print?
Doesn’t help keiths.
Harris county is one of the striped counties. Houston is in Harris county.
You laugh when you’re wrong. We know.
Houston isn’t in the South Texas region.
Houston isn’t in the East Texas region.
keiths: It’s in BOTH. doofus!
You too failed to actually read the wiki page.
I was raised as Catholic…but I knew as a teen it was hypocritical… and wrong about many things…
My journey is different because I discovered that what’s promoted as mainstream truth is usually the opposite…
Houston is in the Upper Gulf Coast region of Texas. This is a fact. keiths has done nothing to disprove this fact or otherwise establish that I am wrong about it.
Laughing is not an argument.
Mung,
Desperation is not a good look on you.
Do you really want Jesus to see you denying, in a public venue, that Houston is in southeast (small ‘s’) Texas? Could you perhaps think of a less idiotic behavior to display before your Lord and Savior?
Poor Augustine must be rolling over in his grave.
more proof from official Texas maps that I am right:
http://www.texascareercheck.com/OccupationInfo/FindYourRegion/
But evidence just doesn’t matter to keiths. 🙂
ETA: keiths is right. The entire state of Texas is wrong. Every Texas agency is wrong. Sure. Whatever.
J-Mac,
Yes, Catholicism is pretty bad, too.
Just to keep the theists on the hot seat, let me pose this question again to everyone out there who believes in an all-powerful, all-knowing and loving God:
He knew that the Indian Ocean tsunami was coming. Not a peep out of him. He knew the Japanese tsunami was coming. No warning to the residents. He knew the Lisbon earthquake was coming, and on a day when the churches would be packed. Many churchgoers died when the roofs collapsed on them. Thanks, God! Not the slightest hint from him of what was about to happen. What kind of a God would treat people so badly? Not a loving God.
History is filled with such events. God could prevent them, but he doesn’t. God could warn people, but he doesn’t. In light of this, how stupid does someone have to be to continue believing in a powerful and loving God?
This blind willingness to believe something so ridiculous ought to be a persistent source of shame for Christians and other believers. Why isn’t it?
You really have to wonder at the psychology of a person who, when obviously wrong, is incapable of admitting it.
And it would appear that the boundaries of municipalities and regions of a state are by convention, until keiths gets involved, then they are what he says they are.
keiths: I don’t mean South East Texas, and I don’t mean Southeast Texas, I mean southeast Texas.
Sure. Whatever floats your boat.
All powerful God doesn’t necessarily mean He has to use ALL his power all the time…
All-knowing makes no sense to me…that would indicate that God had already known Adam and Eve would sin before them being created…There are other instances, like Abraham’s tests of faith…Jesus etc…
It’s questionable at least…
All loving is subjective…I’m all loving but I let my kids to fail sometimes to learn the lesson well…
Mung,
Even elementary school students learn the skills necessary to answer questions like
and
You are (nominally) an adult male, yet you are foolish enough to actually deny what a fourth-grader could tell you — that Houston is in southeast Texas — and idiotic enough to follow up with this:
That’s a pretty spectacular faceplant. Now you’re making it even worse by denying your mistake.
You and fifth are the poster boys for Augustine’s lament:
keiths claims I’m wrong, yet my claim stands unrefuted. I cited several official Texas sources which support it. Houston is, as a matter of fact, where I said it is.
So not only that, but the only reference keiths could cite against what I said doesn’t actually refute what I said.
And finally, official Texas sources identify three counties in the South East Texas region. And none of them include Houston.
No amount of weaseling and word-lawyering from keiths is going to change the facts. 🙂
keiths: But I mean southeast Texas, and that’s different.
Sure. Whatever you need in order to convince yourself that you are right.
Jesus needs people just like you keiths. Always right. Never wrong. Pure as the driven snow.
http://www.texascareercheck.com/OccupationInfo/FindYourRegion/
18. SOUTH EAST TEXAS
Hardin
Jefferson
Orange
keiths: But I mean southeast Texas, not South East Texas. *Whine.*
LoL. One of the WEAKEST arguments ever, keiths. Nice going!
J-Mac,
What loving father would fail to use his power to rescue his children from extreme danger?
Of course it makes no sense. We’re talking about Christianity here. Christianity is full of dumb stuff like that that makes no sense. It’s an embarrassment.
Suppose your kids are about to die in a flood. Will you attempt to rescue them, or will let them drown in order to “teach them a lesson”?
When you look at the evidence, the conclusion is obvious: the loving, powerful God of Christianity does not exist. It’s a ridiculous idea that should never have gotten off the ground.
To remain Christian despite the evidence is to fight against the truth. It’s a badge of shame and an admission of intellectual dishonesty.
But I’m talking about southeast Texas. *Whine*
Mung,
Even fifth knew better than to dispute Houston’s location.
But by all means, keep going. I’ve bookmarked your meltdown.
It is going to be on your permanent record
It’s too good not to bookmark!
I’ve been to Houston. I know where it’s located. Assuming it hasn’t moved.
🙂
Of course, according to you, Houston can move on a whim. As long as people agree it’s somewhere else, then it’s where they say it is. LoL!
I look forward to reading yet another revisionist history from you!
I fiddle. keiths dances. It’s called “The Meltdown!”
😀
Texas Workforce Commission is the official definer of regions? Who knew. What is their definition of regions?
keiths is the official definer of regions? How convenient for him. 🙂
Texas Workforce Commission is independent of both myself or keiths. They are an official body. According to keiths, they get to define the boundaries of regions. They say so, therefore, it must be so. It’s the power of convention. A power not shared by keiths.
Are you just missing the irony here?
Mung, to newton:
Meanwhile keiths struggles, and fails, to suppress his laughter.
row row row your boat …
You never answered my questions who was responsible for all the cataclysms that affected Job and his family, Jesus…You said you knew the stories and yet, you are reluctant to answer …
J-Mac,
Yes, I did. Pay attention, J-Mac.
Jesus is calling you keiths.
Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling for you and for me.
See, on the portals, He’s waiting and watching;
Watching for you and for me
Fortunately Jesus was nothing like me, lol.
Sorry…I read it yesterday and I thought about it…then I must’ve forgotten…
Well, that would be many great coincidences happening to Job at the same time…don’t you think?
There is one clue though:
Job 2:7″ So Satan left the God’s presence, and he struck Job with terrible boils from head to foot”.
It doesn’t look like a bet to me…more like a challenge…and Satan seems to be doing it all to Job and his family…
Reading Job requires nuances that keiths simply lacks. See Satan v keiths.
J-Mac,
Are you arguing that Satan, not God, was responsible for what happened to Job? If so, I hope you can see how stupid that argument is.
Yahweh was the idiot who made the bet with Satan, and Yahweh was the idiot who told Satan “Do whatever you want to Job, short of killing him.”
Would you be willing to hand your child over to an evil person, saying “do whatever you want with her, as long as you don’t kill her:”? Would that be a good way to show your love for your daughter?
It’s idiotic to believe that the God of that story is a loving God.
Liberal Christians at least have the sense to reject the truth of the Job story, though many of them still stupidly believe in a powerful, loving God.
Is it against the rules to call keiths ignorant?
Is it against the rules to call keiths stupid?
Its science.
You seem to be making things more confusing than they actually are…
You seem to be all over the place…
Most of this is pretty new to me so please bare with me…
When say Yaweh you refer to God? Right?
What women are you talking about?
Satan caused Job the boils…Why are you insisting it was God?
Mung,
Instead of sputtering, how about answering a couple of questions?
First, would you describe Yahweh’s treatment of Job, in abandoning him to Satan’s whims, as “loving”?
Also, how about tackling the questions I posed earlier?
Job was never abandoned by God, and Job was never at the whim of Satan.
We have objective empirical evidence.
How about admitting that I was right? Houston is in the Gulf Coast region of Texas. It is not in the South Region of Texas, and it is not in the East Region of Texas, and according to my cited sources, it is not in the South East region of Texas.
So I had my facts right and you were left floundering about for any piece of flotsam or jetsam in an attempt to show that I was wrong, and even that failed.
keiths: I didn’t mean South Region and I didn’t mean East Region, and I didn’t mean both the South Region and the East Region, and I didn’t mean South East Texas and I didn’t mean Southeast Texas, I meant southeast Texas.
How lame can you get?
That’s what I thought!
Why would God allow Job to be tested?
Mung,
Because you were idiotically wrong. Houston is in southeast Texas, as even a rather slow fourth-grader can tell you after looking at a map.
Now, back to the questions about Job, natural disasters, and your supposedly loving God.
You can start by telling us about these “nuances” you’re alluding to in the Job story. What are they, and how do they transform Yahweh from the utter ass he is in the story to the loving God you believe in?