Sometimes very active discussions about peripheral issues overwhelm a thread, so this is a permanent home for those conversations.
I’ve opened a new “Sandbox” thread as a post as the new “ignore commenter” plug-in only works on threads started as posts.
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Democracy=Lauren Bobert
Haha, good one America. Very funny!
Marjorie Taylor Greene.
Marj….C’mon, stop it! You are killing me.
That you know their names at all shows the value of a free press.
https://rsf.org/en/china
Perhaps it’s something to do with the 49+ journalists currently in prison:
https://cpj.org/data/imprisoned/2019/?status=Imprisoned&cc_fips%5B%5D=CH&start_year=2019&end_year=2019&group_by=location
Get them out and perhaps you’ll start to hear some real news that the party has not approved.
I guess all those journalists are in prison legitimately, probably ‘terrorism’ offences? Presumably as you are happy to have hundreds of thousands in camps what difference does 49 more make. And you are happy about those camps, after all we don’t want ‘terrorists’ on the streets!
But do tell me about the journalists imprisoned in the USA for going against the state. Your whataboutism fails there doesn’t it?
https://cpj.org/data/people/ilham-weli/
Better not rebel eh phoodoo? You might get both kidneys taken….
OMagain,
I am pretty sure none of them were assaulted for putting their feet in their mouth, but who knows? You might.
Louie Gohmert. Hollywood!
“A spike in censorship: Israel censored on average one news piece a day in 2018”
OMagain,
Wait, is this why you are being so quiet on this? If you need, you can just nod your yarmulke twice. די אייבערשטער זאל דיך בענטשען.
Yeah, Israel’s treatment of the inhabitants of the occupied Palestinian territories is pretty disgraceful as well.
I do not deny that many places on earth have a pretty bad record with regard to human rights. The fact that this list is long does negate the fact that China is firmly in that list.
If someone was here defending the treatment of Gaza by Israel I’d be arguing with them over that as well. It’s apartheid over again.
But they are not. Likewise nobody defending the existence of Guantanamo bay. What happened there was awful.
But apparently nothing bad happens in China at all. If people are in camps it’s because phoodoo believes they deserve it
All those people, all terrorists, just think!
Corneel,
So Israel disgraceful. The US disgraceful. I am just wondering why I brought up how disgraceful they are, and not you.
But anyway, glad you are not being accused of whataboutism by Alan, like Omagain. You and I agree the US is one of the worst human rights abusers on the planet ever. And Israel. So there is some common ground.
WhataboutOmagain knows it too.
phoodoo,
I suggested you, phoodoo, were the primary “whataboutist” in this discussion.
You already know the answer to that, don’t you? Alan keeps telling you:
You’re welcome. Repressive regimes and its adherents usually get really testy when their human rights violations are being pointed out to them. Making those violations visible is always a first step.
Synecdoche! Many US citizens opposed the Viet Nam war. Many opposed the US invasion of Iraq. I suspect many Israelis dream of an equitable and long-lasting solution to the Palestinian problem.
Oh that’s right. I was thinking about an alternative universe, the one where you are honest. How silly of me.
So I remarked here on your whataboutism. What, pray, is dishonest about the remark?
From what I understand many in the younger generations are not keen on what is being done in their name.
However, as usual, I suspect it’s the people like phoodoo that are doing what they believe god has told them to do keeping the oppression going. As oppression in the name of ‘righteousness’ is not oppression at all. Or at least that’s what I’ve learnt from phoodoo. Call someone a terrorist and put them in a camp and steal their organs? They deserved everything that was coming to them.
RIght phoodoo?
phoodoo only has conversations, a back and forth on a particular point, when he has nothing to lose. Being called out like that is not something he’ll engage with. He’s made the point that you are dishonest, actually engaging further with that will benefit him not at all. He’ll then be in the world of “evidence” and as we know he’s happy to have tens or hundreds of thousands of people in “re-education camps” on the flimsiest say-so of people who have everything to gain by lying. They were “terrorists”. All of them. So someone said to phoodoo, so phoodoo believes. And when asked he’ll repeat what he’s paid to say like a good little doggy.
Unless, of course, you pay him. Then he’ll spout the party line, however absurd, whatever it may be. Or have a conversation. Or do whatever it is he does that he’s the best in the world at…..
Remind me phoodoo, what is your job that you claim to be the best at the world at?
You know what, you are right. And if that’s a bad thing it’s logical that countries that are even worse then the US and Israel are considered by you to be even worse then them.
Yet this chart disagrees: https://ourworldindata.org/human-rights
No doubt they are part of the Epoch Times or whatever excuse you’ll have to why that particular dataset is invalid. But seems to show if we compare the USA to China then if the US is one of the worst human rights abusers in the world then China is far, far worse then that.
And yet do I hear you condemning China or making “excuses” for them?
No. Rather you spout this:
According to that chart and set of data that’s simply untrue. US violations are a rounding error compared to China.
I know that dealing with facts and evidence is not your thing. After all, you’ve been fooled by a man who bends spoons and literally said he’s a stage magician and has no PSI powers.
So when you say that the US violations outweigh EVERY other country is that part of the “big lie” technique your propagandist handlers have taught you?
Sure, not *all* Uighurs or Muslims are in Jail. According to your best understanding how many are?
That’d be one of those “facts” you have trouble with.
He’s told me more than once he’s involved in rice cultivation. I assumed he was joking but perhaps not.
I suspect it’s part of his cover story.
That was his first comment in the sequence.
Rum quoted the bolded sentence in that response also, so it’s clear that that claim in bold was being called out.
So it seems clear to me his “job” involves knowing the opinions of hundreds and hundreds of people on that specific subject.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that if he’s having that conversation hundreds and hundreds of times a week it’s a ploy to find a westerner who will talk to native Chinese as someone who you’d expect to be sympathetic to any pro USA views, whereas phoodoo is actually acting on behalf of the surveillance state acting to find those with views that differ.
Unless you like to explain how, phoodoo, you have that same conversation with ever person you talk to about rice farming……
I want to ask you a serious question. Are you on the autistic spectrum? I am not joking. One of the classical characteristics of autism is the inability to understand jokes, sarcasm, or teasing.
Why do you think I said you were accusing Omagain of whataboutsim? You don’t know why? Because it was sarcasm, based on the absurdity of you accusing ME of using whataboutsim, and being totally and completely unaware that this is exactly what Omagain and Corneel were doing. Its like there is a void in your brain. In fact the void is so large, that YOU also were one of the primary people who repeatedly tried to pull the so called “whatabout” nonsense.
If you may recall, as you bury your head in the sand and pretend you see nothing, these discussions began because of the ridiculous situation in the US regarding the spectacle of a retarded president, and the mess that they call democracy. THUS, anything that strayed from THAT topic and anyone who tried to steer the conversation away from THAT conversation were the ones doing “whatabout” you dillweed!
But I guess I shouldn’t expect you to understand any of this Alan. Maybe its genetic. Maybe autistic people don’t even know they are autistic. Its not your fault.
But it is Omagains.
phoodoo,
As to autism, you are the first to suggest I might be on the spectrum in seventy years of my existence. But you might be right, I have heard of folks getting well into middle age undiagnosed. Julian Assange was recently claimed to have Asperger’s syndrome.
phoodoo,
Anyway, whataboutism isn’t confined to your comments here, it’s a widespread way of clouding discussion on a specific topic. But you seem to be defending your whataboutism by indulging in more whataboutism.
phoodoo,
And whatabout Trump? Nobody is more pleased than me at his imminent and ignominious departure from the US presidency.
It’s his only option really, given defending the indefensible needs more of a rhetorical flair then poor phoodoo can muster.
It’s logically really, they are in the terrorist camps because they are terrorists. And not all of them are in camps, therefore only the ones that need to be are, therefore the policy is fair as if it was not fair they’d all be in the camps! That’s only logical right? Oh, and I’m going to see a man bend spoons with his mind tonight, fancy coming?
If they did, I don’t think you would have noticed.
phoodoo,
I noticed you suggesting it.
Pure projection. phoodoo, out of the two of you who believes that a dog can predict when their owner is returning via PIS powers? Out of the two of you who thinks that a man can bend a spoon with the power of his mind, despite having to hold the spoon in his hands?
Somebody is on some spectrum, and it’s you phoodoo. And it’s probably a handy talent in your line of work, paid belief.
This appears to be an interview with our own walto:
Democracy Naturalized
Neil Rickert,
Wow, he’s been busy. No wonder we haven’t seen him for a while.
Neil Rickert,
Thanks, Neil! This also came out a few days ago:
https://erraticus.co/2021/01/15/authentic-democracy-voting-populism-democratic-reform/
walto,
Thanks. That looks interesting.
I should mention that I saw the link to your 3:16am interview in Brian Leiter’s blog.
My personal view of elections, is that I try to vote for someone whose judgment I can mostly trust. I’m assuming that’s about what you mean by the “trustee” idea.
walto,
US President Biden should invite walto to lead an advisory committee on voting issues.
I rarely look at the New York Times online newspaper but an article was linked elsewhere and I followed it.
In a Topsy-Turvy Pandemic World, China Offers Its Version of Freedom
Any thoughts, phoodoo.
Citizens of China don’t have freedom of speech, freedom of worship or freedom from fear — three of the four freedoms articulated by President Franklin D. Roosevelt — but they have the freedom to move around and lead a normal day-to-day life. In a pandemic year, many of the world’s people would envy this most basic form of freedom.
I wonder if you have bumped into Duncan Clark. He seems to share some of your experiences.
“The ability to just live a normal life is pretty amazing,” he said.
Alan Fox,
There is freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom from fear. Anyone who thinks otherwise has never lived here. You just can’t start a riot.
Of the one and a half billion people here about four people total care about this. It’s freer here than virtually any condominium association rules living anywhere in America. It’s not even close.
https://www.wired.com/story/inside-chinas-massive-surveillance-operation/
Freedom indeed!
There is demonstrably not ‘freedom from fear’ for certain groups in China. That phoodoo thinks there is indicates that the people who are in fear don’t count as people, at least to phoodoo.
Sounds a bit like how the Nazi’s justified what they did.
Hey, Is anyone with a NYT online subscription willing to do me a favor?
I have fallen afoul of their AI-assisted moderation, and I would at minimum like to let people know why I am not responding in a thread I started.
I’m aware of the irony.
DNA_Jock,
Mischief managed. I appear to have some access.
DNA_Jock,
Don’t have a subscription but had a look out of curiosity. Gave up after several “page not found” returns. I recommend the Guardian. It’s free and should remain so for the foreseeable future.
DNA_Jock,
You just can’t seem to follow the rules huh Jock?
For an insight into how fucked up American capitalism is, read about what is happening with Robinhood and some of the other apps that are restricting buying of some stocks in order to help the large hedge funds which were shorting stocks, and then got ripped because individual investors decided to play against the hedge funds. This is just insane. What possible legal framework can make this possible?
They want to rig the game any way possible so large institutions have no risk, and then can just play with the market anyway they want, buy and sell stocks others can’t, use microtrades, and every other boondoggle you can think of and never thought of before, and the public investors get totally screwed. Its 100% like a casino, where the casino can decide if you gamble too well, or start winning too much they can just kick you out. How can a casino get a license and then have the right to only open to those who lose money?
Isn’t capitalism sweet?
Robinhood is going to get their asses sued but they are probably banking on the fact that the US supreme court is also so rigged that they will probably get away with this.
The head of the Rochester police union was concerned about the affect this arrest might have on the poor police officers.
This is NOT from the onion. What a country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGHyFW8WfnY
“These prisoners {in Guantanamo} have been out of touch for the past 20 years {without charges, without a trial, without lawyers, without press able to see them,without habeas corpus}, they don’t have any new information for us, they are really no use to us anymore, we should just kill them. All of them.”
Brain Kilmeade on Fox News.
The US has some moral superiority? Fuck you Omagain.
Did I say it did? Did I say that Guantanamo should be kept open? No, rather that’s what you have convinced yourself I have said, that that’s the argument I’m making and the one you choose to respond to. You are mistaken. While such places exist the USA cannot tell other countries not to behave in such a way. They have no such moral superiority. It’s just that what China is doing is even worse! The sheer numbers!
No, rather it’s you that is advocating for camps like Guantanamo. You don’t have a problem with such camps if the correct ethnic group is being imprisoned. You have already said that all the people in such camps in China deserve to be there. That they are terrorists and are there for a reason. You are happy they are there.
So for the record:
I don’t support Guantanamo.
I don’t support re-education camps in China
phoodoo does not support Guantanamo
phoodoo does support re-education camps in China, as long as the ‘right’ people are there.
I don’t have to say fuck you phoodoo, as literally everything I write says that from beginning to end, just in a longer way.
Your concern for the children is admirable. Yet worse is happening closer to home you don’t seem to care about: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/16/thousands-of-uighur-children-orphaned-by-chinese-detention-papers-show
China has some moral superiority? Hardly.
Sounds awful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
OMagain,
I don’t even buy your premise, but I am glad you agree that the acts of the US government are despicable, and preclude the US from making any authoritative judgement about anyone else, based on their horrible human rights record.
I don’t give a fuck what or if you are glad about anything, collaborator.
Does China have a horrible human rights record phoodoo? That’s what’s in question. That’s all that’s ever been in question. That’s what you refuse to acknowledge.
And we already know your answer, those in camps deserve to be there. Disgusting