Sometimes very active discussions about peripheral issues overwhelm a thread, so this is a permanent home for those conversations.
I’ve opened a new “Sandbox” thread as a post as the new “ignore commenter” plug-in only works on threads started as posts.
And your qualifications are? True Christian?
So Hillary is a shoe-in? Good to know. In that case why even bother to vote?
Wait a minute. Are you saying there’s a chance in hell he is NOT on Putin’s payroll? What’s wrong with you? Are you not watching “the news”?
And that’s Joe Malarkey Biden for you. Don’t forget to mention the push-ups: https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-i-am-the-only-candidate-who-can-beat-ronald-reagan
Listen to Flint – he knows everything. We’ll see this November. Can’t you contain yourself?
Maybe , seems to me the Democrats need a non threatening candidate to present a viable alternative for Trump voters who still have some vestiges of sanity left.Neither Sanders or Warren fit the bill. Bloomberg maybe , but he was unacceptable for Democrats . That leaves Biden.
It is too early to know, long way to go. We have yet to see the roll out the Senate investigation of Hunter Biden. But the Trump coalition is showing a few cracks, suburban women are wavering. Trump hasn’t got all the free press with his rallies. Trump looks a bit unnerved. Biden so far is not playing the game right.
It would be an improvement.
Than is ok, Trumps needs more than the hardcore base, the other candidate has to win the non base in the right places. And if possible steal a red state. Even more create close races in red states.
The real hope is Trump drags down others with him, Senate , House, Governors, state legislatures.
Nobody this time can claim being too confused to know what an idiot Trump is.
As a matter of fact, this has happened quite a few times. Here’s the list:
John Quincy Adams – 30.5% of the popular vote in 1824
Abraham Lincoln – 39.8% of the popular vote in 1860
Woodrow Wilson – 41.9% of the popular vote in 1912
William Clinton – 42.9% of the popular vote in 1992
And here’s one that’s close
Richard Nixon – 43.4% of the popular vote in 1968
Read more carefully. I said if he admitted he’s on Putin’s payroll.
Maybe “confused” is the wrong word. I remember the little old lady in Iowa who told the TV camera that she followed the news closely, and she had no idea the Mueller report said anything negative about Trump. Fox never mentioned it. Was she confused? I have a relative who recently assured me that Trump is doing the best job ever, despite the virus fraud — there IS no virus, it’s all a hoax funded by Bill Gates! Is he confused?
And there seems to be a sizeable contingent who firmly believe Trump cannot possibly lose a fair election, they have lots of friends and they don’t know a soul who will vote against him. They’re allegedly ready to rise up in armed rebellion if the vote is rigged (that is, if Trump loses). Are they confused?
Not saying Trump is less human , more saying Trump is about a human and a half. You want the statistics!
Biden a commie? Delaware is a capitalist field of dreams. Come on ,man. You can do better than that.
Ever watch “Justified”? Great show. Based on a short story by Elmore Leonard . Timothy Olyphant , Walton Goggins . There is a line, “ Son, are you real smart, or real stupid?” No idea why that occurred to me.
Why not? Over 50% of the population, the odds should favor it. Why did you suggest it?
Doubt he is going to nominate his wife, so not seeing dynasty.
It does not appear that Biden requires a full time lawyer to pay off hookers ,intimidate folks. Or was required to pay millions of dollars for running a scam or forced to admit his foundation was a tax dodge, just saying.
And I expect a few bodies buried under buildings in New York, probably too common to give a cute name to.
Not you, not your buddy, maybe Putin will ride to the rescue again. Shirtless on his horse. Now that is creepy.
Do you expect Nonlin’s understanding of political views to be any more nuanced than his understanding of evolution?
Nope, just hoping for a little creativity.
Probably , though I give a pass to little old ladies in Iowa, all her friends are probably red hats, no point in being an outcast. Her vote is as meaningless as mine usually is in Texas. Iowa is going to stay red.
Can he feed himself? If so , deluded. As long as he safety stays out of a swing state, it is free country, you can fall for a con if you need to. How does he feel about the moon landing?
As far we know he hasn’t won one either.
Three million more voted against him than for him , but of course fake news. Perfectly circular is a comforting reality, hope they are not depending on Social Security. The ax is being sharpened.
A friend in college once had this note on a paper” You are completely confused in the most terrible direction.See me immediately “
So yes, they are completely confused in the most terrible direction. Unfortunately, also heavily armed.
The rotten turnip just lifted a ban from the Obama administration , prohibiting shooting bear cubs and wolf puppies in Alaska state parks. What a great idea!
I am so glad he has time for such important measures to help the country. Bear cubs are ugly. I always felt it was unconstitutional to not let people shoot them if they feel like it. I saw a pack of wolf cubs walking across a street on one quiet country road in Colorado once. I tried to run them over but just missed. My nieces were in the car and cried out, you almost killed them!” I said, “Yea, I know, but they were kind of fast, they got away. Should I go back and try to shoot them? ”
They begged me to, but just then I saw a baby deer…
No wolves except in the zoo in Colorado, were the” wolves” black with a white stripe down their back?
newton,
https://www.5280.com/2020/01/if-wolves-are-already-in-colorado-should-we-still-reintroduce-them/
I should have gone back and shot them, darn it. Its such a hoot.
Anyways, there will be plenty of baby animals in Alaska to kill.
I better not tell my camping buddy, he is already a little jittery after a moose trotted through our campsite last year.
Yes, hiding behind stats is all you can do when no one, and I mean NO ONE, likes Biden. Not the Obamas, not “his” voters, not you, not anyone else. Maybe his crack-head son? Nah, it’s just the easy money.
Here you go again with that racist thing. You: “but it’s OK, I’m with the left”
When you can’t read, you just can’t read. Haha.
So he’s selecting a woman because “over 50% of the population”?!? How stupid is that? Then what about Obama-Biden? Sexism? And a black woman is now expected because what? “Less than 50%”? Haha.
It’s just their – Clintons’ – birthright of course.
He might just need one now, Hunter. It was fun under the radar while it lasted.
Not you either and not anyone else. And that’s the funny part. Like many other on the right, I didn’t like swamp creatures Romney and McCain and was at best neutral about the little Bush. I saved the gas and time – again – like others, …and it showed. Biden is a more retard version of McCain. Good luck with that dud.
This just reminds me, time to make another donation to the Trump campaign – hope he wins with only half the spending like last time. Can you believe, this is the FIRST guy I donate to in politics? Repeatedly? Haha.
Nonlin.org,
Do you think you are a Christian?
I answered a question with readily available facts that had nothing to do with Biden. The rest of your paragraph is, uh, typical.
If nothing else, you do a great deal to help people understand the nature of Trump’s support and why it has been so impermeable.
I like anyone that can help stop Trump from being re-elected . I really like Biden. I exist. Therefore someone likes Biden.
You friends with Barak? True, Crack can mess you up .
Geez, Sizeism not racism. Here’s your buddy” That guy’s got a serious weight problem. Go home. Start exercising. Get him out of here please. Got a bigger problem than I do. Got a bigger problem than all of us. Now he goes home and his mom says, ‘What the hell have you just done?” haha
Figured you figured a commie would only vote for a commie. Apologies for implying you were an ignorant dolt.
That is racist.
Maybe, and maybe the consideration that having a centrist would balance the ticket. Then we had McCain choosing Unqualified Sarah only because she was a woman, sexism?
Not sure that is true . The first consideration should be that person is capable to running the country in case something to Biden . Political advantages second.
Bill had a pretty crappy birthright, don’t think his father got him out of the draft , he did that all by himself, or into a college. Hillary don’t think anyone put her in the family business or million dollar gifts.Never made Chelsea a White House official. You seem confused. I thought you liked Trump
He might, you got the lackeys in the Senate. Putin ,I am sure , is waiting in the wings to help. Even worse might if it was the President’s children selling influence to evil China.
That is actually the first coherent thought you have managed to communicate. You support easily the most corrupt and incompetent person ever to hold the office of President and that is what you like about him. And you do it enthusiastically.
Free country, thought Trump was self financing his campaign being a billionaire , why take your milk money?
That ain’t going to happen, he will just up the rent the campaign pays to him.
Sure, you are kind of like one of his wives, sooner or later he is going to fuck you over.
Nonlin.org,
That you give money to a barely articulate oaf with bags of money of his own? Yes, I believe it.
Doesn’t add up to you liking Biden when you like “anyone”. But what do I care?
Sure it is. Despicable discrimination on par with racism and sexism. Let’s not forget all those were legal until recently. Also totally ineffective. Haha.
There is a point where stupid is racist indeed, but you’re just in-between, so no protection for you and your sugar daddy.
Then a centrist and an extremist? You said it! Hahaha.
Logically, those are not equivalent – ask your professors.
No, you are favorably confused, senator and secretary and would-be-president Clinton. And all got rich on the public dime. With not one day worked among the whole clan in their entire life. You know, building something.
Might be. No love lost for leftists Javanka. I hope they both fuck off. Say NO to political dynasties!
Haha. In the second term we’ll get to the bottom of Obamagate. And we’ll drain the very entrenched swamp.
No chance. He’s on a short leash. So far, so great!
He fucked your crooked princess though. To not speak of the fake media and the deep state. But then again, probably any oaf would do that. Haha.
Yes, Saint Alan. Can I help you?
I think you meant to say this is the first guy your parents give any money to. Your mental maturity suggests that you’re in late elementary school at best. If you’re older, then your favourite insult, “retard” (as infantile an insult as they come), would be autobiographical.
Nonlin.org,
I am reminded of the joke about the cop who pulled over the car with the WWJD bumper sticker…
I’m not from your part of the world, so don’t have a dog in that fight, but his victory (under the college system) makes him no less dumb. You want to chuck your money that way, knock yourself out.
But, many people are so dyed-in-the-wool Republican they could not conceive of voting any other way, no matter what kind of moron was presented to them. And some, it would seem, consider that very inadequacy an asset. He’s very much the dork’s dork.
Have you read the Sermon on the Mount?
DNA_Jock,
Took me a second! 🙂
I see, good one.
“ Last fiscal year, the EEOC filed 199 lawsuits against employers and won $505 million for workers.” Not totally.
I could point out the obvious, but even that would elude you. Funny thing is you are Trump’s sugar daddy, He makes you feel special and you give him your money. The sad part, he thinks the red hats are chumps. Well maybe not sad.
Or a centrist and a not a extremist, it still works.
Maybe let’s see.If the only reason pick someone unqualified is because they are female , it is not not sexism , but if the only reason to pick someone unqualified is because they are male, it is sexism. That seems sexist.
Now if McCain’s qualification for Vice President was that Republicans like tight dresses ,the naughty school teacher look, I see your point, not sexism, just selling out.
Yes , she was.
No doubt about it.
And they didn’t go bankrupt five times, sticking others with the debts they incurred . That still doesn’t make it a birthright.
You support and give the guy money that is all about dynasties, you are a perfect Trump voter.
Allan Miller,
As always, you don’t even try to understand anything about anything. And then make a show of your ignorance like a proud peacock.
Haha. Desperation!
Haha. Nope.
Blah, blah, blah. Probably realized you fucked up.
You can’t go bankrupt when sucking the public teat your whole life. It’s elementary. On the other hand, a business bankruptcy is not a “failure”. Even if it were, success after failure is [still] praiseworthy in the USA.
Can’t read? Not “dynasties”, but “political dynasties”.
You’re wasting precious time on politics. Meanwhile you’re not replying with your “fitness” function OR a resignation from the church of Darwin.
Why be on your case? Because you’re one of the few that KNOWS he’s peddling bullshit on “evolution”.
I love it when atheists give lessons on Christianity. It feels SO right in this day and age.
Nonlin.org,
As ever, you have no response as such, but feel compelled to say something. It’s amusing how people trumpet Trump’s victory as indicative of some higher quality in him, oblivious to the possibility that both he and they could be unutterably dumb.
In the spirit of “know your enemy”, I submit that Trump is not dumb, he is highly skilled within a narrow range. He’s an accomplished salesman and con man, who has a killer instinct for knowing exactly which lies his marks are suckers for, and a gift for confecting a false but satisfying narrative for those people. He understands the common human desire that “let’s you and him fight”, and he’s very good at insulting and misrepresenting those his marks are gleeful to see insulted and misrepresented.
Look, he billed himself as a successful self-made billionaire when in fact he is NONE of those things, and the public records show this, but it doesn’t matter. His marks WANT to believe his line.
He’s also a master at creating shiny objects (or mirages, or illusions) that keep the media constantly too busy to dwell on any particular lie. The media use all their time saying “look what he did NOW” and not much time considering what he did yesterday, and the day before, and the day before. Trump’s attention span matches the media. He’s also shrewd enough to do his worst offenses just after prime newstime on Friday night, knowing his tweets will have it all forgotten by Monday. He intuitively understands the boiling frog, and destroys the nation in small daily increments, none of which is worth jumping out of the pan for.
Granted he doesn’t think, doesn’t read, doesn’t listen, but a dismayingly large segment of the voting public doesn’t do any of those things either. His core base worships the man, irrespective of his lies or his deeds.
Flint,
I am not a big Trump fan but this above is an ad hominem attack. Are you insinuating that everything he does is bad for our country?
colewd,
As John Bolton noted, everything he does is good for Trump.
The only metric Trump considers is “What’s in it for me?”.
I think Flint’s assessment is entirely accurate (as of 2016). If you want to dispute it’s accuracy, bring on your evidence. Or you could just whine about tone. We will draw our own conclusions from your choice.
In defence of the “He’s a moron!” crowd, I will note that recently he has been appearing more and more incoherent, which isn’t part of the ‘shiny object’ schtick.
So he’s a consummate con-man who might be suffering from senile dementia.
Awesome.
DNA_Jock,
You double down on Flint’s ad hominem. How can I take anything you guys say seriously? Why don’t you guys try and make a balanced critique versus calling someone who built part of New York incompetent. What have you guys done to compare with his accomplishments?
Again I think he has divided the country and that is problematic but you guys need to do better to be taken seriously.
With the exception of the hundreds of thousand dollars it costs , when he is occupied with playing golf it is not as bad for the country as it could be otherwise.
I would not question competence as a developer apart from pointing out his serial bankruptcies or having to settle lawsuits for Trump University or admitting his foundation was a tax dodge , the stiffing of contractors. He was harmless when he was just a serial adulterous con man.
Now he works for us, what are his top three accomplishments as President?
Intentionally dividing the country In the middle of a pandemic to help his electoral chances is not enough to rate low marks?
newton,
All your comments tells me you are listing to the news you want to hear. This is not critical thinking.
Tell me something positive he has accomplished.
Clinton ran a tight budget and Obama saved the auto industry. I am a business man. The Trump administration saved one of our business with the PPP that was shut down by the pandemic. The business is now thriving.
colewd,
So, I see you went for the whining about tone, rather than address the substance. “Telling”, one might say.
First up, ad hominem translates as “to the man” and is the label attached to a specific fallacy. Please stop using the phrase when all you mean to convey is “that’s insulting”. MIS-using latin phrases makes you look stupid, not smart.
Yes, I am insulting Trump. Again, if you wish to dispute our characterization of his record, bring it on. Bring the data, the evidence, the achievements. Whining that “you’re being so mean! (to the most powerful man in the world)” makes you look pathetic.
“Someone who built part of New York”. WTF? The racist slumlord, you mean? What, exactly, did Trump build? He out-licensed his name to a bunch of developments, but he’s had more failures than successes, and the successes are often built off stiffing contractors and threatening them with an army of lawyers.
My daughter works in real estate development in Manhattan (and lives opposite a Trump-branded tower) and, trust me, Trump represents the worst in a rather scuzzy business.
You failed to notice that Flint and I (unlike most Trump critics) are NOT calling the man incompetent. Au contraire, he’s a mentally ill con-man.
DO try to keep up.
I will happily stack my accomplishments up against his. Any day.
[Spit take]
The first Trump accomplishment that comes to your mind is the PPP?
That’s hilarious.
DNA_Jock,
Now you triple down after you go into ad hominem denial. You are attacking the man not the specific issues. There is no substance here at all. What are the news sources you trust? You guys appear to have no clue what’s really going on. You need to get out more :-). Have you ever run a business?
The PPP is one of many accomplishments.
DNA_Jock,
I don’t think DNA_Jock explained this very well. The ad hominem fallacy is the fallacy of disputing an argument based on who makes the argument, rather than the substantive merit of the argument. It doesn’t mean simply being critical of someone. An example would be “I don’t believe men ever walked on the moon because that claim was made by an atheist!”
In any case, I regard my observation as being essentially accurate – Trump evidently does not read (this has been noted on every news outlet other than Fox), and doesn’t listen (as attested to by anyone who tried to talk sense into him). If these are insults, they are delivered by Trump, not by anyone else.
I’m of course not personally acquainted with the Trump core base, and in their opinion Trump has been very good for the country, and has accomplished a great deal to their liking. He has a secretary of education who doesn’t believe in public education, a secretary of the interior who wants to sell national parks to the strip mining industry, a secretary of the EPA who wants to eliminate every regulation protecting the environment, an attorney general who sees his job as attacking Trump’s political enemies and protecting Trump’s friends, in total disregard of the rule of law.
And perhaps most important, he has nominated (and the Senate has rubber stamped) hundreds of judges whose prime qualification is they don’t believe in human rights, but rather pass the litmus test of the hard rightwing religious conservatives (who are violently opposed to everything Jesus ever stood for).
Now, in my opinion these things are bad for the country. YMMV.
This is a narrow definition. If you are attacking a person that is an ad hominem strategy. You are avoiding the substance of the issues by painting a negative picture of the individual. The irony here is that Trump is the master of this technique.
As far as news sources go I am ok generally with the WSJ or NPR. The rest you have to have a big filter to listen to. The rest of your comments are reasonable. All these candidates have tradeoffs. I am open right now to both sides depending how things shake out.
The tales of the PDB are illuminating. This is the president’s daily briefing, it is classified the very highest of secrets, and brings the president up to date on what’s happening as determined by all those intelligence agencies we have.
They figured out that unlike any prior president, Trump would not read the briefing. He tweets and watches TV, but doesn’t read. So they included lots of pictures. Trump couldn’t quite follow the narrative through the pictures, so they tried reading the brief to him. They learned (according to some ex-briefers) that unless Trump was mentioned personally at least once a paragraph, he lost interest.
Last I heard, Trump doesn’t even attend the PDB any more, having delegated it to Jared, who can’t even get a security clearance! Lock her up!
This is simply wrong. Ad hominem is attacking the person making an argument, rather than the argument itself.
Now, I understand this can get a little hazy. If nonlin makes a claim and I don’t know the subject matter, I’m inclined to discredit the claim because none of nonlin’s claims are sensible or supportable. Nonetheless, by discrediting all he says based on it being nonlin, I’m guilty of ad hominem.
And while we’re at it, Trump rejecting news he doesn’t like because of who reports it, that’s ad hominem.
colewd,
But come on Bill, giving the turnip credit for PP is really stretching credulity isn’t it?
Its a bit like saying GW Bush gets credit for winning the Iraq war.
Everyone knew there was going to be a stimulus package. Turnip really had nothing to do with this being a reality at all. All he managed to do was screw it up, so that there is no transparency, no oversight, and most of the money seems to be going towards larger companies who already had financial problems unrelated to the virus. The only thing that has saved small businesses and individuals is the house, which fought for those provisions despite the republicans and the senate saying that if you give people and small businesses money, they don’t have incentive to work.
Giving that guy credit for a stimulus package because of a disaster he helped create (The worst virus response in the entire world? Are you giving him credit for that too?) That’s pretty outrageous.
While I am waiting for you to address one of the specific issues (pick one, any one…you can do it! Be brave, Bill! How about DeVos?) that we have raised. I will pass the time noting that I trust the Economist and perhaps the BBC. I am entertained that you cite the WSJ — you do realize that WSJ has become the print arm of Fox News, right? And, frankly, I don’t believe you about NPR.
And yes, I do run a business, and [sighs deeply] phoodoo is right about the PPP.