Moderation Issues (5)

Please use this thread for (and only for) alerting admins to moderation issues and for raising complaints arising from particular decisions. We remind participants that TSZ is a benign dictatorship, the property of Dr. Elizabeth Liddle. All decisions regarding policy and implementation are hers alone.

2,097 thoughts on “Moderation Issues (5)”

  1. Sal,

    Ironically, as far as I recall, Keith was instrumental in developing and lobbying the ignore button. Thank you very much Keiths.

    No, neither. I’ve simply noted that it’s in line with LIzzie’s desire that readers be able to control what they read.

    So, if Keiths wants to was more hours of his life spewing out comments I’ll never read, he can be my guest.

    Same response as last time, Sal:

    It’s so cute when guys like J-Mac, Sal, and Mung threaten to put people on ignore, as if that would actually be a punishment.

    And same comments as for fifth, who hides behind his ‘Ignore’ button just as you do:

    Think about how well this has worked out for me:

    1. I still get to refute your arguments. The fact that you have me on Ignore hampers you from responding to me, but not vice-versa.

    2. Readers see you failing to respond, and they know why. You’re not impressing anyone by hiding behind your Ignore button and making excuses.

    3. Readers can see how little faith you actually have in Jesus. If you trusted him to help you, you’d be confronting my arguments instead of hiding from them. If you trusted him to reveal things at the crucial moments, you’d be bringing the fight to me instead of running away. Ironically, it’s one of the few things we seem to agree on: You’re on your own in these debates. Jesus doesn’t give you the help you need.

    (I have an obvious explanation for that: He’s been dead for 2000 years, and dead people aren’t very good at responding to requests for help. What’s your explanation?)

  2. walto:

    I learned a lot from that [entropy] thread. Read a bunch of stuff I wouldn’t have otherwise. Since I’ve been here I feel like I’ve learned a great deal from maybe half a dozen threads. That was one of them. I believe it ended, as most (all?) of them did, by keiths shitting all over it, but I could be wrong.

    Indeed, you are wrong. The reality was much more amusing.

    You started out actually believing that Sal was right, and that entropy was a measure of energy dispersal. By the time the discussion was over, you had reversed yourself on that and number of other issues, coming around to my position regarding entropy as a measure of missing information.

    In the time since then you’ve somehow managed to forget what you learned, and you’re now back to rejecting the missing information interpretation!

  4. Mung,

    Ducky Lucky … the sky is falling on your head. Be a ‘skeptic’. It’ll make you, er, ‘reasonable.’ = P

  5. keiths:

    DNA_Jock:

    I may or may not provide a comment with or without a link when I guano a post.
    I do so as a courtesy to the other readers of the thread.

    Right, and it’s not surprising that you’d ignore Lizzie’s input. You’ve already indicated that you won’t commit to being bound by her rules, despite accepting the job.

    Alan and Neil did the same.

    Lizzie sure knows how to pick ’em.

    And DNA_Jock proves my point.

    Lizzie, how did you manage to select three of the most insecure and vengeful people at TSZ — Alan, Neil, and Jock — for the moderator position? Your vetting procedure — if there is one — needs some work.

  6. keiths: Lizzie, how did you manage to select three of the most insecure and vengeful people at TSZ…

    You haven’t seen vengeful.

  7. keiths: Lizzie, how did you manage to select three of the most insecure and vengeful people at TSZ — Alan, Neil, and Jock — for the moderator position? Your vetting procedure — if there is one — needs some work.

    Do you want me to pass on the message? I am puzzled as to why you haven’t emailed her already.

  8. I may or may not provide a comment with or without a link when I guano a post.
    I do so as a courtesy to the _other_ readers of the thread.

    Not clear to me what ‘input’ of Lizzie’s I have ignored. Did I fail to comply with some rule? Did I guano a post that was not rule-breaking?

  9. DNA_Jock,

    Not clear to me what ‘input’ of Lizzie’s I have ignored. Did I fail to comply with some rule? Did I guano a post that was not rule-breaking?

    How many rule breaking posts are out there that are not guanoed since you have started. I would estimate at least 100. I would also estimate that you could assign them to less than 3 people.

  11. DNA_Jock,

    You are correct, give or take a factor of two, but non-responsive.

    So you have a collapsing culture on your hands. What is the plan?

  13. colewd,

    Remember that for Jock, it’s a matter of personal grudges.

    For example, walto’s been running around calling me crazy in various threads. That’s obviously a violation of the rules, but Jock doesn’t have a grudge against walto. So walto’s comments stay, and mine get guanoed.

    Like Alan and Neil, Jock is a guy who simply can’t resist abusing his authority for his personal benefit. He doesn’t possess the integrity or the impulse control needed to do the right thing.

  14. Jock,

    We’ve been over this already. Moderators are supposed to act on Lizzie’s behalf and for the benefit of TSZ. Lizzie has made it clear that she does not want guanoing to be used, or seen, as a punishment or a reprimand. You are of the opposite opinion. You very much want to use it as a punishment, and you want to make it worse by refusing to provide notice of the guanoing or a link to the guanoed comment(s).

    It’s typical Jock behavior: accept a job, then refuse to do it, because you’re an angry little boy who wants to abuse his authority in order to punish those against whom you are nursing grudges.

  15. keiths,
    Doesn’t alter the fact that all your comments in guano are there because they broke a rule and many more of your comments that also break rules have not been guano’d. I give you that you wore me down and I could no longer be arsed to guano your rule-breaking comments. And it follows from that that it entitles everyone else to rule-break too. So you win, there. How things will pan out in future, we’ll have to see.

  23. keiths: It’s typical Jock behavior: accept a job, then refuse to do it, because you’re an angry little boy who wants to abuse his authority in order to punish those against whom you are nursing grudges.

    Moderator is beginning to sound good with all those perks.

  24. keiths:
    fifth:

    newton: Blame keiths

    Good idea.Walto needs some cheering up, and blaming me will make him very happy.

    Thanks, I do what I can when it is convenient.

  25. newton,

    Moderator is beginning to sound good with all those perks.

    And that’s actually one of the problems. People with an inclination to abuse power, like Alan and Jock, are attracted to power. So they volunteer for jobs like this and then inevitably fall prey to their abusive inclinations.

    Recall the ALurker episode, in which Alan was pissed at ALurker for criticizing him. Alan abused his privileges to go snooping through the TSZ IP records in an idiotic effort to ‘out’ ALurker as Patrick. A decent person wouldn’t have done that, but Alan simply couldn’t resist.

  27. Being a moderator at TSZ may be the only power DNA_Jock has left. Can’t you at least let him have that?

  28. Alan,

    Do you acknowledge how sleazy it was for you to go snooping through the IP records, particularly when it wouldn’t have been a rule violation even if ALurker had turned out to be Patrick?

    You were totally out of line. You violated commenters’ privacy for nothing other than your own personal benefit.

  29. keiths: Remember that for Jock, it’s a matter of personal grudges.

    For example, walto’s been running around calling me crazy in various threads. That’s obviously a violation of the rules, but Jock doesn’t have a grudge against walto. So walto’s comments stay, and mine get guanoed.

    Like Alan and Neil, Jock is a guy who simply can’t resist abusing his authority for his personal benefit. He doesn’t possess the integrity or the impulse control needed to do the right thing.

    Side note: on a moderated thread, your motive-mongering would be a rule violation. You should avoid it in those places.
    Cool story bro, but the facts don’t support your position: 1) you seem to assume that I read every comment, and 2) I did guano the post where walto called you cray-cray. I did so silently because my (fallible) opinion was that that would best serve the interests of the other commenters on that thread. Curiously, nobody complained about that. In particular, keiths did not complain about that.
    Weird.

    keiths: We’ve been over this already. Moderators are supposed to act on Lizzie’s behalf and for the benefit of TSZ. Lizzie has made it clear that she does not want guanoing to be used, or seen, as a punishment or a reprimand. You are of the opposite opinion. You very much want to use it as a punishment, and you want to make it worse by refusing to provide notice of the guanoing or a link to the guanoed comment(s).

    Well, you are wrong about how I view guano. Although, if your paranoid view were correct, you probably shouldn’t be letting on how much having your comments guano’ed annoys you.
    😉
    I repeat my question: have I guano’ed a comment that was NOT rule breaking? If you want to avoid guano, then the solution lies entirely within your power, keiths.

    It’s typical Jock behavior: accept a job, then refuse to do it, because you’re an angry little boy who wants to abuse his authority in order to punish those against whom you are nursing grudges.

    My, but you know a lot about me and my employment history. Good to know that my ignoring of Lizzie’s input is entirely in your head.

    Your “no links” complaint falls in the “not-straight in the line-out” category.
    E2fix link

  30. Mung,

    Being a moderator at TSZ may be the only power DNA_Jock has left. Can’t you at least let him have that?

    True, and he already has that. I’m just asking him not to abuse it.

  31. Jock,

    Here is your pitiful behavior in a nutshell:

    1. You know that it’s customary to link to guanoed comments from the original thread, and that this is done for TSZ’s benefit.

    2. You know that Lizzie doesn’t want guanoing to be seen or imposed as a punishment or a reprimand.

    3. You have a grudge against a particular commenter.

    4. You guanoed a couple of comments from that particular commenter.

    5. Instead of giving notice and linking to the comments, as is customary, you did nothing.

    Did it benefit TSZ? No. Did it benefit Lizzie and advance her goals for the site? No. Did it benefit Jock? You bet.

    You wanted to indulge your grudge by punishing me, and you wanted to make it worse by giving no notice and posting no links. Exactly what Lizzie doesn’t want moderators to do. So you went ahead and did it.

    You’re a spiteful little boy who simply can’t control his impulses. Not moderator material.

  33. KN,

    I nominate keiths and Gregory as moderators.

    Nomination declined.

    We don’t need moderators, anyway. Just admins.

  34. keiths: Did it benefit TSZ? No. Did it benefit Lizzie and advance her goals for the site? No. Did it benefit Jock? You bet.

    Did it benefit keiths? You bet.

  36. Jock, can you please try to be more like keiths in the impulse-controlling dept.?

    Thanks!

  37. Btw Jock, why does Neil seem to have a problem guanoing-but-not linking that you do not have?

  38. Mung: I tried to fit your pitiful behavior in a nutshell.

    As indicated, I think a nutshell would be a very fitting place in keiths’ case.

    [Note to Alan and Allan: sorry to be so repetitive. 🙁 ]

  39. walto: Btw Jock, why does Neil seem to have a problem guanoing-but-not linking that you do not have?

    Well, we both have lives and we are both trying to moderate as efficiently as we can. I am pretty sure that if you try to analyze every single moderation decision that we make, you’ll go insane.

  40. walto:
    Btw Jock, why does Neil seem to have a problem guanoing-but-not linking that you do not have?

    It’s not a problem if you don’t post anything about it at all. However, posting that you have guanoed some comments does remind people to exercise some self-control.

  42. DNA_Jock: Well, we both have lives and we are both trying to moderate as efficiently as we can. I am pretty sure that if you try to analyze every single moderation decision that we make, you’ll go insane.

    Huh? I was asking a simple technical question. Neil had said that if one tries to move a post to guano some kind of wordpress problem arises unless one also provides a link to that comment.

    I note, too, that he was (generously) responding to a question I had put to you but that you did not answer. I was grateful for his response and replied with something like “Aha. That makes sense.” But now, I have no idea what either of you is talking about.

  43. I am pretty sure that if you try to analyze every single post that we make, you’ll go insane.

    – The mods

  44. Sorry, walto,
    My bad. Given your comments on either side, I thought you were being sardonic.
    When Neil originally explained why he provides a link, he explained the technical reason why it helps him: avoiding a “duplicate post” problem. I thought his explanation was pretty clear.
    Since I haven’t been on the job so long, I don’t have that problem. Yet.

    By the time I got back on-line, the conversation had moved on; I clarified my position that I assess the interests of the other readers of the thread. That caused a whole other kerfuffle.

  45. DNA_Jock,

    It’s no problem, but I’m still confused. Neil gets a duplicate post issue that you don’t–but you might start to once you”ve done mod duty longer? How can that be?

  46. walto,
    If you try to post a comment that is IDENTICAL to a comment you have made previously, WordPress won’t let you: you get a

    Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!

    message.
    I haven’t said “Moved a post to guano” enough times to run out of variations on a theme.
    Yet.

  49. 🙂

    Hey I know how you can avoid the dupe post issue. Link to some ‘thought for the day’ site. Might have a nice calming remark about the benefits of civility too! Reinforcing, you know?

    I mean at least in my own case, if I went looking for my cray-cray comment and found something you might see on a fortune cookie, I know that’d do me a world of good.

  50. Plus which, Jock, I am NEVER sardonic!! Much too old, grouchy, lying, humiliated, grudging, etc. for that. The evidence is quite clear on this.

    There are a lot of embarrassed liars around here, but I stake my claim to being the biggest and reddest.

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