Please use this thread for (and only for) alerting admins to moderation issues and for raising complaints arising from particular decisions. We remind participants that TSZ is a benign dictatorship, the property of Dr. Elizabeth Liddle. All decisions regarding policy and implementation are hers alone.
You might feel justified in speaking for all Christians that the whole point of the funeral for their loved one is Christ , for a non Christian the whole point is to pay respect to the person which does not require a belief in the divinity of Christ or the opinions of the minister about the afterlife.
You feel the same about weddings?
Good idea, you wouldn’t want to be compared to a Nazi apologist by the Mormons.
fifth:
Come on, fifth. Not even you are incompetent enough to think that attending a funeral, speaking with business associates, and commenting on a skeptical blog are identical situations calling for identical behavior.
I refuse to believe you are that stupid, though the evidence may soon force my hand.
Yes, Probably more so
A Christian wedding is meant to be a picture of the mystical union between Christ and the Church.
Then a non Christian should not take on the job of critiquing a Christian funeral.
He apparently does not have a handle on what is taking place there
How about this?
All of us make it a habit to not critique the personal trappings of funerals or weddings or bar mitzvahs or baptisms at all at web site that is supposed to be about discussing ideas
Is that too much to ask??
peace
I have been called Beelzebub by a Jehovah’s Witness so there is that.
peace
We were discussing why it is a deterrent. Responding to an guano worthy insult with a guano worthy insult is lazy. Therefore even one click would deter a certain percentage of the likely to respond. It would disrupt the flow.
Wasn’t the whining about the creation of this new moderation thread using the same logic?
newton,
I’d been thinking about pointing out that contradiction to you. Remember, you were trying to defend Alan based on the idea that closing the old thread and opening a new one were not attempts to hide his disgrace. Now you’re admitting the opposite. And yes, seeking out an old thread is a bigger effort than clicking on a link. Alan was counting on that to discourage people, even if he couldn’t delete the old thread entirely.
Nice foot shot.
newton,
Again, you’re undermining your own defense of guanoing. If guanoing is a deterrent only to the small fraction of folks who are too lazy to click on a link, then it’s practically useless. To argue that TSZ would descend into chaos without it is therefore ridiculous.
You are making my point for me.
And of course, the evidence backs up my claim. Look at the guano-free thread experiments that Alan foolishly ran. Did they descend into chaos? Not in the slightest. So much for the importance of the deterrence effect.
Unless you are gay, of course. In which case it’s an abomination. Right?
keiths,
Nice own goal.
Jock, why do you link to posts you’ve guanoed? Is that practice pursuant to a rule?
walto,
It’s not a rule, but it’s common courtesy to the readers and to the person whose comment has been guanoed.
I’m not sure how the union of two persons of the same gender can ever be a fitting picture of the mystical union between things as different as Christ and the Church if that is what you mean.
It seems to stretch the metaphor a bit don’t you think.
Peace
fifth:
Humans and dogs are pretty different. Would a marriage between them be a “fitting picture”?
ETA: Dogs often worship their masters. Seems like a pretty good analogy, eh, fifth?
keiths,
Largely defeats the purpose of guanoing–which is why you like it. I think it’s a bad practice, myself.
Do you believe in Beelzebub?
No that suffers from the opposite problem as same sex weddings. The particulars in that case are far too different to be an adequate picture.
Because of the incarnation Christ can be united with us in that he shares our humanity but because He is still God he is sufficiently different that the union is mystical and supernatural.
different but still the same.
It seems that when it comes to Christian weddings only one type of paring fits the bill.
quote:
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
(Eph 5:22-33)
end quote:
Keep in mind we are only discussing christian weddings other traditions might not have the same problem with marring dogs or appliances or such.
As long as they don’t consider themselves to be married in the Christian sense.
peace
Good thing that (barring Lizzie’s annual teases) a woman hasn’t set foot on this place for several years.
I can tell you why I do.
If I write just “moved a post to guano”, then I get a message saying that it is a duplicate post, and it is not posted. However, if I make the “guano” a link to the moved post, then it is not flagged as a duplicate. The link part is something that changes every time and prevents being flagged as a duplicate.
Simple pragmatism — doing what works.
yes and no.
I’m getting all kinds of opportunity to quote scripture today
quote:
Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
(1Co 8:4-9)
end quote:
peace
Neil Rickert,
Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.
Too bad, though.
Heh. So they have to be “different, but not too different”, where that just so happens to coincide with fifth’s pre-existing religious beliefs. Praise the Lawd! It’s a miracle!
I can easily picture someone in the 50’s making an argument just like fifth’s and concluding that whites and blacks are just too different to marry each other.
fifthmonarchyman,
Sounds to me like not so much. Well, fwiw, I believe in Hitler. Wasn’t terribly nice to my father’s parents and siblings in fact.
Well said. No doubt precisely such arguments were made.
ETA: and still are in Mississippi.
walto,
keiths:
walto:
Then you’ve completely misunderstood Lizzie’s intentions regarding Guano. She’s said explicitly that she doesn’t want guanoing to be seen as a punishment or a reprimand, and that she doesn’t want to interfere with people’s ability to read what they choose.
I think that guanoing, even with provided links, actually does constitute such interference, but it’s certainly better than with no links at all.
keiths,
I’m well-aware of your views on guano, thanks.
Actually I encountered many arguments against interracial marriage when I was a kid.
Some purported to be biblical none were like the one I just made.
One I remember appealed to this text
quote:
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
(2Co 6:14-15)
end quote:
Even as a very young kid I could see that the application of this text to interracial marriage was inappropriate and just plain goofy and I told them so
They had no cogent response. You don’t hear that argument any more.
That is the beauty of my particular tradition the truth eventually wins out over silliness.
peace
walto,
But not of Lizzie’s, apparently. I’ve just supplied you with the information you were lacking.
And now you know why linking to guanoed comments is in line with Lizzie’s wishes and purposes regarding Guano.
fifth,
My point is that your “different, but not too different” argument is just a rationalization. You have no principled way of identifying what is “different but not too different”. It just happens, miraculously, to line up with your religious preconceptions.
keiths,
I’m aware of Lizzie’s remarks on the subject too. Also know all about the huge part that ‘common courtesy’ plays in your life, and just how important that is to you.
But again, thanks for the reminders.
fifthmonarchyman,
They should have just used your other quote. Might have worked better for them. I mean it remains useful for anti-gay purposes, as you illustrated. Why not, as keiths says,for racist or antisemitic purposes too? Def should be kept in your back pocket when searching for the ‘truth’ in these delicate matters, it seems to me.
So then I hope you see the relevance of my comparing your comments on a particular Christian funeral to praising tertiary parts of the Nazi enterprise.
I was not calling you a Nazi,
I was saying that the fluff of a Christian service like the efficiency of the Nazi transit system is totally beside the point.
peace
Also, fmm, your views on what constitutes a ‘cogent argument’ are no more dispositive than are those of a number of other pundits posting here. Maybe the racists of your youth were right–even though you could have given them a better excerpt to rely on. I mean, the one they liked does talk about light and darkness, no? Who says your interpretation was more ‘cogent’?
fifthmonarchyman,
Go fuck off with your self-described counterpart keiths.
walto:
Angry Old Insurance Regulator is… angry.
The didn’t precisely because it does not work for race.
The only way it could ever possibly work is to somehow claim that racial differences are more fundamental than differences in gender in humans.
Not even racist bubbas were willing to go that far.
If they did a person could shoot their goofy argument out of the water by simply pointing out that Genesis 2 comes before Genesis 10 and is more foundational to the story.
or by this quoting this particular passage about our union with Christ.
quote:
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.
(Col 3:10-11)
end quote;
peace
I would say God. We know that is correct because their argument is no longer made
This gives me yet another opportunity to quote Scripture
quote;
So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!”
(Act 5:38-39a)
end quote:
peace
Opposing Trump might just be opposing God!
I brought it up, of course I remember. I could have use the whining about the post pinned to the top of the page to the same effect but I chose differently. Wonder why?
Yes, it did not hide it( your point) but I admit it, it deterred those less fanatical.
Thanks, back at you.
Seems more like disgust. If evolution can’t prevent people like you what good is it?
Only a God who has to pay off porn stars and cheats contractors.
You not consistently insulting people is also in line with Lizzie’s wishes and purposes.
Are you proposing that we now also allowing doxxing? No rules or don’t enforce them would also allow posting of porn. That’s ok with you too?
Because you say so.
I see no reason for the moderators to be courteous to people who are being discourteous and who in doing so are taking up the moderators valuable time.
Sure I do it’s called Ephesians chapter 5.
The passage I quoted goes to great lengths to define precisely what is different but not too different in this particular context.
peace
Who believes TSZ would descend into chaos without Guanoing. Anyone?
Nice straw man keiths.
Mung,
Well, he’s nuts and he probably won’t reproduce.
ouch
🙂
Can’t you join our side and become a liar for Jesus?
Mung,
At least he is attacking the idea and not the person.
peace
Gregory,
So your issue is with an advocacy group that supports it. Are you as opposed to the liberal indoctrination going on with the NCSE and evolution plus climate change? Or the ACLU?