Moderation Issues (5)

Please use this thread for (and only for) alerting admins to moderation issues and for raising complaints arising from particular decisions. We remind participants that TSZ is a benign dictatorship, the property of Dr. Elizabeth Liddle. All decisions regarding policy and implementation are hers alone.

2,097 thoughts on “Moderation Issues (5)

  1. walto,

    Hey I know how you can avoid the dupe post issue. Link to some ‘thought for the day’ site.

    That isn’t necessary. As Neil explained, the mods simply need to link to the guanoed comment. Then there’s no duplicate post issue, because the link itself is different each time. A different link means no duplicate.

    The problem arises solely when someone like Jock refuses to follow the custom and link to the comment. Then and only then does he have to use a different phrasing each time he announces a guanoed comment.

    You can think of it as an “asshole tax”. If Jock follows the custom and links to the comment, no problem. But if he decides to be an asshole by refusing to link, then he has to change the phrasing.

    Of course there’s also the “double asshole option”, which is what Jock employed this time around: don’t announce the guanoing and don’t link to the guanoed comment. That gets him out of paying the “asshole tax”, but at the price of exposing himself as a double asshole — which itself is just another kind of asshole tax.

    All of this because Jock doesn’t want to do the job he volunteered to do. Lizzie doesn’t want guanoing to be employed as a punishment or reprimand, so what does Jock do? He ignores her wishes and uses it as a punishment. Announcing a guanoing and linking to the comment is a courtesy to readers, so what does Jock do? He goes out of his way to be discourteous to readers (and to the author of the guanoed comment) by refusing to announce or link to it.

    It serves no one’s interests but his own. He’s a spiteful little brat.

    As I said: Lizzie sure knows how to pick ’em.

  2. walto: [Note to Alan and Allan: sorry to be so repetitive. ]

    Meant to say before, my remark about “repetitive” was just the reason Allan Miller gave for giving up on TSZ. He had had enough of repeating basic facts regarding biology and biochemistry and then a turn of the goldfish bowl..

    It wasn’t a dig at you.

  3. DNA_Jock:
    walto,

    I haven’t said “Moved a post to guano” enough times to run out of variations on a theme.

    What about including a count with each comment, ie “Moved nth post to guano.”?

    That might be the start of a statistical profile of the guano-ing habits of moderators which I am sure would be of interest to some.

    Probably needs to be automated to be convenient.

  4. Just as a reminder, I was blocked here, and the reason I don’t post here anymore, because Alan and Neil decided I committed the made-up sin of…(its a doozy)… quoting others!

    See they decided, oh this embarrasses us, because it shows what a lousy job we do, so we are going to make up new rules despite Lizzie, and just block all of my posts until they feel like allowing them if ever. The fact that we are on opposite ends of the philosophical dialogue they want to push here- well, that’s just coincidence really.

    This should of course cause both of these moderators to lose the right to ever make any statements about moderating standards whatsoever, because they themselves have none.

    So perhaps Alan and Neils real purpose here is just to remind everyone what unabashed hypocrites on a skeptic website look like.

    Some people have no shame.

  5. keiths:
    newton,

    And that’s actually one of the problems.People with an inclination to abuse power, like Alan and Jock, are attracted to power.So they volunteer for jobs like this and then inevitably fall prey to their abusive inclinations.

    Those bastards.

    But perhaps instead of condemning them , we should pity them.

    Foolishly drawn towards the tantalizing vision of the acquiring the power of getting to do extra work for nothing , they “volunteer”. They think they can just use a little power for the public good but soon they have to increase the number of posts moved guano to get the same high from the abuse of power.

    Sure J-Mac and phoodoo provided enough fodder at first ,but even their prodigious output is not enough to satisfy those who have succumbed to the temptation of exceeding one’s authority

    Eventually even such moderate souls as yourself and Gregory fell under the heavy ax of the unholy mockery of the sacred rituals of moderation.

    From the strongest to the weakest , all succumb in the end to the raw power of blog moderation .It corrupts all.

    Dr.” Little” knew that.

    Or did she?

    Recall the ALurker episode,

    Unfortunately once the new moderation thread started , le renard argenté caused me to lose all memory of the l’affaire de Lurker.

    in which Alan was pissed at ALurker and abused his privileges to go snooping through the TSZ IP records.

    Sorry no memory of that ,but It sounds dreadful.

    A decent person wouldn’t have done that, but Alan simply couldn’t resist

    Not sure but a decent person would apologize for making a mistake.

    Best always.

  6. BruceS: What about including a count with each comment, ie “Moved nth post to guano.”?

    That might be the start of a statistical profile of the guano-ing habits of moderators which I am sure would be of interest to some.

    Probably needs to be automated to be convenient.

    Facts would just get in the way.

  7. newton: Facts would just get in the way.

    Plus would need some kind of randomization of moderator to posters as well as a measure of time-spent-moderating to at least start to be statistically valid for estimation of rate-of-guano-ing.
    Perhaps moderators should punch-in. Is there a time clock plugin for wordpress?

  8. Alan Fox: Meant to say before, my remark about “repetitive” was just the reason Allan Miller gave for giving up on TSZ. He had had enough of repeating basic facts regarding biology and biochemistry and then a turn of the goldfish bowl..

    It wasn’t a dig at you.

    Ah. Thanks for that clarification. I actually NEED Allan to come back and repeat himself endlessly though!!!

  9. BruceS: What about including a count with each comment, ie “Moved nth post to guano.”?

    That might be the start of a statistical profile of the guano-ing habits of moderators which I am sure would be of interest to some.

    Probably needs to be automated to be convenient.

    Also good. But you don’t get the nice fortune cookie quote. 🙁

  10. phoodoo,

    Things are much better here now that Alan is no longer a moderator.

    Yes, there are still abuses, and DNA_Jock has given us the latest example of that. And abuses shouldn’t be tolerated, which is why I have spoken out strongly against this one. But Alan’s personal “contribution” to the abuses was wildly disproportionate, and so his departure from moderator duties has made TSZ a far better place than it was.

    It isn’t a difficult principle to understand: When you give power to a bottom feeder like Alan, abuses happen. When you rescind those powers, the abuses cease. Same sleazy guy, but he can’t abuse powers he doesn’t have, so TSZ gets better.

  11. newton: But perhaps instead of condemning them , we should pity them.

    Foolishly drawn towards the tantalizing vision of the acquiring the power of getting to do extra work for nothing , they “volunteer”. They think they can just use a little power for the public good but soon they have to increase the number of posts moved guano to get the same high from the abuse of power.

    Sure J-Mac and phoodoo provided enough fodder at first ,but even their prodigious output is not enough to satisfy those who have succumbed to the temptation of exceeding one’s authority

    Eventually even such moderate souls as yourself and Gregory fell under the heavy ax of the unholy mockery of the sacred rituals of moderation.

    From the strongest to the weakest , all succumb in the end to the raw power of blog moderation .It corrupts all.

    Stop, Newton! I’m really sad now!! Having a Hitler apologist around was bad enough. Turns we’re growing the damn things here.

    🙁

  12. Jock:

    I haven’t said “Moved a post to guano” enough times to run out of variations on a theme.

    Bruce:

    What about including a count with each comment, ie “Moved nth post to guano.”?

    Why bother, when the entire problem is solved by simply linking to the guanoed comment — something that ought to be done anyway as a courtesy to the readers?

  13. newton,

    You seem to have adopted walto’s strategy — when you can’t refute, mock (ineptly).

    Suit yourself. It’s your reputation.

  14. walto,

    Ah courtesy. And a fondness for tradition too. Nice.

    “Fondness for tradition” has nothing to do with it, but courtesy does. Moderators are supposed to use their powers to serve TSZ. Lizzie appointed them with that in mind.

    Linking to guanoed comments serves the interests of TSZ, and it’s in line with Lizzie’s stated wish that guanoing not be used as a punishment. Jock’s refusal to announce and link was just a childish rebellion against his responsibilities.

  15. keiths:
    Bruce:

    Why bother, when the entire problem is solved by simply linking to the guanoed comment — something that ought to be done anyway as a courtesy to the readers?

    These posts should be considered as my contributions to the ongoing meta-ization of TSZ, a set of posts which I refuse to take seriously.

    But on a serious note, I have agreed that eliminating guano-ing is the right idea in the past, and I continue to think that. But to me it seems pointless to continue to post [ETA: with serious intent] about it until the return of she-who-must-be-obeyed (because she who pays the piper …)

  16. keiths: “Fondness for tradition” has nothing to do with it, but courtesy does. Moderators are supposed to use their powers to serve TSZ. Lizzie appointed them with that in mind.

    Linking to guanoed comments serves the interests of TSZ, and it’s in line with Lizzie’s stated wish that guanoing not be used as a punishment. Jock’s refusal to announce and link was just a childish rebellion against his responsibilities.

    There’s the difference between a truly sweet guy and bad, bad actor right there.

  17. Bruce,

    But on a serious note, I have agreed that eliminating guano-ing is the right idea in the past, and I continue to think that.

    It’s good to hear you reaffirm that.

    But to me it seems pointless to continue to post about it until the return of she-who-must-be-obeyed (because she who pays the piper …)

    But this kerfuffle isn’t about the elimination of guanoing, though it obviously lends support to that idea. It’s about DNA_Jock’s abuse of his moderator privileges.

    Linking to guanoed comments was a courtesy that even Alan and Neil grudgingly adapted to. Jock should set aside his childish “nobody’s telling me what to do” attitude and adapt as well.

  18. BruceS: These posts should be considered as my contributions to the ongoing meta-ization of TSZ, a set of posts which I refuse to take seriously.

    But on a serious note, I have agreed that eliminating guano-ing is the right idea in the past, and I continue to think that.But to me it seems pointless to continue to post [ETA: with serious intent] about it until the return of she-who-must-be-obeyed (because she who pays the piper …)

    One simple way of achieving your goal would be to simply move all the other threads into guano. Nothing need ever be “moved” again!

  19. Lovely writing newton.
    Thanks for your feedback, keiths, although you seem to have missed this comment:

    I did guano the post where walto called you cray-cray. I did so silently because my (fallible) opinion was that that would best serve the interests of the other commenters on that thread. Curiously, nobody complained about that. In particular, keiths did not complain about that.
    Weird.

    Remember keiths, Lizzie’s idea is that guano-ing exists to protect the original conversation, hence my commitment has always been to act in (what I perceive to be) the interests of the other commenters on a thread.

  20. phoodoo: Just as a reminder, I was blocked here, and the reason I don’t post here anymore, because Alan and Neil decided I committed the made-up sin of…(its a doozy)… quoting others!

    Just a reminder. That was not why you were blocked.

    You were blocked because you insisted on repeatedly posting moderation comments in a discussion thread, instead of posting them in the moderation thread.

  21. keiths: But this kerfuffle isn’t about the elimination of guanoing, though it obviously lends support to that idea. It’s about DNA_Jock’s abuse of his moderator privileges.

    Goddamit Bruce, try to stay on topic, can’t you?! X>{

  22. keiths:
    newton,

    You seem to have adopted walto’s strategy — when you can’t refute, mock (ineptly).

    Suit yourself.It’s your reputation.

    It’s a freaking epidemic if you ask me. Where are the goddam refutations?
    Anyhow, Newton’s reputation is totally history at this point. There’s no place for it to drop to anymore. (I mean, below zero?? Really???)

    Plus, he made me sad with that post, which I didn’t like.

  23. BruceS: Plus would need some kind of randomization of moderator to posters as well as a measure of time-spent-moderating to at least start to be statistically valid for estimation of rate-of-guano-ing.
    Perhaps moderators should punch-in.Is there a time clock plugin for wordpress?

    I think the preference for those who care is just to assume bad behaviour,

  24. keiths: You seem to have adopted walto’s strategy — when you can’t refute, mock (ineptly).

    You’re a hypocrite. Is that better?

    keiths: And abuses shouldn’t be tolerated, which is why I have spoken out strongly against this one.

    I agree, your abuses should not be tolerated. What would you suggest I do, what with me not being a mod and all.

  25. Jock:

    Remember keiths, Lizzie’s idea is that guano-ing exists to protect the original conversation, hence my commitment has always been to act in (what I perceive to be) the interests of the other commenters on a thread.

    How many times do I have to repeat this? You didn’t act in TSZ’s interest, or Lizzie’s interest, or in the interests of the readers. You acted — quite childishly — in Jock’s interest.

    Who benefited from your refusal to announce the guanoing? DNA_Jock. Not TSZ, not Lizzie, not the readers.

    Who benefited from your refusal to link to the guanoed comments? DNA_Jock. Not TSZ, not Lizzie, not the readers.

    You chose to abuse your moderator privileges and punish someone against whom you have a personal grudge. Now you’re being told that you can’t do that, and you’re moping about it.

    Grow up and do your job.

    Lizzie made it clear that guanoing is not supposed to be a punishment or a reprimand. That obviously disappoints you. Get over it.

    If it makes you feel better, you can grumble to yourself while you’re linking to guanoed comments. But fercrissakes, do your job by announcing and linking to them.

  26. Neil Rickert: You were blocked because you insisted on repeatedly posting moderation comments in a discussion thread, instead of posting them in the moderation thread.

    Like keiths does.

  27. keiths: Lizzie made it clear that guanoing is not supposed to be a punishment or a reprimand.

    And that’s just stupid. If it’s not meant to be corrective then it ought not be there.

  28. I certainly agree that it “ought not be there.”

    And many of the problems it creates stem from the fact that it is seen as a punishment or reprimand, despite Lizzie’s stated intentions.

  29. keiths: How many times do I have to repeat this?

    Dunno. Do you find that repetition lends support to assertions?

    Personally, I view guano as the referee’s whistle, no more. The ‘problems’ seem to stem from your viewing it as a punishment or reprimand.

  30. keiths: How many times do I have to repeat this? You didn’t act in TSZ’s interest, or Lizzie’s interest, or in the interests of the readers

    I’d say maybe a hundred more times might make it true. Maybe a few more will be necessary. Not sure.

  31. Jock:

    Personally, I view guano as the referee’s whistle, no more.

    If that were true, you wouldn’t be pulling childish stunts like refusing to announce or link to guanoed comments.

    Do your job, and stop whining about it.

  32. DNA_Jock,

    Segregating disgusting trash is more valuable than simply blowing a whistle. Every clean-up you do is site-enhancing. Links to the vile garbage, notwithstanding.

  33. DNA_Jock: Personally, I view guano as the referee’s whistle, no more.

    Usually, when the whistle sounds, someone gets penalized. Else what was the point of blowing the whistle?

    The idea that Guano is not a reprimand is just utterly absurd. No one should believe it to be true. In spite of what Elizabeth says.

  34. Mung,

    I disagree. Trash removal needn’t be seen as a reprimand or a punishment to be valuable. It’s like trying to rid your lawn of mugwort.

  35. walto, keiths is a grown boy. He can take out his own trash. He doesn’t need a trash removal service. Thank you very much.

  36. keiths:
    newton,

    You seem to have adopted walto’s strategy — when you can’t refute, mock (ineptly).

    Instead of adopting walto’s strategy, perhaps I was mocking walto’s inept use of mockery to refute walto’s use of mockery when he lack refutation, did that ever occur to you?

    Suit yourself.It’s your reputation.

    An artist must be willing to take risks.

  37. Mung:
    walto, keiths is a grown boy. He can take out his own trash. He doesn’t need a trash removal service. Thank you very much.

    Nice idea, but he clearly won’t (or being nuts, can’t). I’m in favor of some sort of three-strike rule myself, but I seem alone in that.

  38. Mung: Usually, when the whistle sounds, someone gets penalized. Else what was the point of blowing the whistle?

    To stop play.

    The idea that Guano is not a reprimand is just utterly absurd. No one should believe it to be true. In spite of what Elizabeth says.

    When you quarantine a patient it is not a reprimand, it is to deter him from infecting others.

  39. newton,

    Sort of, but I don’t like the patient analogy–suggests innocent victim. I think mugwort is better.

  40. walto: I don’t like the patient analogy–suggests innocent victim

    So you blame keiths for his own nuttiness?

  41. That’s a tough one. Spinoza asked, ‘Do we strangle the rabid dog?’

    Fortunately, we don’t need to figure that out: there are no punishments available here–just the banishment of shit to shitsvillle.

  42. Mung: Oh please. In order to stop play for what reason?

    In football ,to signal the play is over. Oh please, do you think someone is penalized after every play?

  43. walto:
    newton,

    Sort of, but I don’t like the patient analogy–suggests innocent victim. I think mugwort is better.

    Ok, though from the mugwort’s viewpoint…

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