Lockdown!

Share your experience, tips, advice, questions…

As it seems most communities world-wide are going into voluntary or enforced quarantine that involves staying at home and avoiding physical contact as much as possible, I thought we could have a thread where we could try a bit of mutual support by cheering each other up over the next few days, weeks, months… Who knows?

I don’t know: suggestions on films to watch, books to read, gardening tips, exercise ideas

Usual rules apply plus a guideline. Let’s be kind and supportive to each other.

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267 thoughts on “Lockdown!

  1. CharlieM: I’m sure there are thousands of people trying to get back home.

    Hadn’t considered that. If systems are preventing that happening that needs fixing.

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  2. Alan Fox:
    If true, sounds brilliant. Knowing you have had the disease and you are now immune, life can be resumed as normal.

    You can still be a contact vector, and the enforcers of lockdown have no means of distinguishing you. We need the stats from these tests, but I’d be concerned about people starting to just circulate as if immune.

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  3. Moved comments from Robert Byers to guano. I have suggested Robert start a thread explaining his views on coronavirus and keep his views to that thread. “Moderation issues” is the place for querying moderation actions.

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  4. Allan Miller: You can still be a contact vector, and the enforcers of lockdown have no means of distinguishing you. We need the stats from these tests, but I’d be concerned about people starting to just circulate as if immune.

    Well, sure but with that extra information from antibody tests, it can be a consideration. We might glean a better idea of how persistent immunity is and whether it is possible to be immune and infectious

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  5. Alan Fox,

    I think it needs rolling out carefully. Health and care workers first, and other key staff currently self-isolating ‘just in case’, eg due to recent travel or family members. I’d imagine it would be hard to maintain lockdown if people look out the window and see increasing numbers behaving normally. I can see test certificates being demanded, and a black market in the same.

    (On a related note, NHS workers have been mugged for their ID, to take advantage of their shopping/movement privileges. We’re seeing the best and worst of people).

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  6. Allan Miller: I can see test certificates being demanded…

    In France that will be top of the agenda. It’s the age of the internet! Why not a central register? The police can already confirm that a vehicle is insured without needing to see a certificate.

    I can see the need for caution but I insist on being a bit optimistic.

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  7. Alan Fox:
    I can see the need for caution but I insist on being a bit optimistic.

    Fair enough. It’s just instinctive risk analysis!

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  8. It’s an ill wind that…

    It’s asparagus season already and due to the lockdown a local producer has lost their normal market to restaurants and supermarkets so passed on the message they would sell and deliver to prearranged spots. So we acquired some plumptious asparagus for supper. We usually buy the thinner stalks as less expensive and it cooks quickly on a plancha/griddle. With fatter stalks coat well with olive oil, salt and pepper on baking parchment on a tray in a hot oven for say 15 minutes. We never boil asparagus.

    1+

  9. Alan Fox,

    Boiling vegetables, in my view, tends to be a bland and soggy way to cook them. A well cooked vegetable should always be coated in olive oil, salt and pepper, and come out of the oven with a nice crisp or off the stove with a good sear.
    By the way, what kind of dog was that scampering about in the earlier picture?

    ETA: Leafy greens can be boiled in broth for tenderness and to reduce their bitter flavor. To the broth, one should add fat or some other nonpolar substance to soak up some of the nonpolar vitamins.

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  10. Schizophora,

    Boiled cabbage! Why?

    Works with all brassicas. Cut or slice and put into heavy based pan with generous amount of butter, ground black pepper and salt to taste. Cover with tight-fitting lid and put on gentle heat (or in low oven). Cooking time is very flexible and it can be removed from heat and reheated if needed.

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  11. Nowt wrong wi’ boiled greens! Ever since childhood I have had the water from cooking brassicas as a beverage – for no reason beyond the taste.

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  12. My grandparents were English. The vegetables were put on to boil at the same time the roast went in the oven. And the roast was always well done.

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  13. Acartia,

    My grandparents were English. The vegetables were put on to boil at the same time the roast went in the oven. And the roast was always well done.

    Were the vegetables still recognizable as vegetables after that epic boil?

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  14. keiths: Were the vegetables still recognizable as vegetables after that epic boil?

    Not if my mom was cooking them. But the house stunk to high-heaven.

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  15. keiths: Were the vegetables still recognizable as vegetables after that epic boil?

    Barely. But I’m sure that the water they were boiled in was more nutritious than the veggies.

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  16. We had a clap for care workers last night – a bizarre idea to the cynic in me. I stuck my nose out just to see if anyone would bother in our small village, and was surprised when 8pm fell to hear a vigorous applause and cheer.

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  17. Funny how attitudes to the virus thing are split so neatly on political (ideological) lines. Why should conservatives so strenuously deny it ? I have my own ideas but curious as to what others think.

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  18. Acartia: I’m sure that the water they were boiled in was more nutritious than the veggies.

    We have living proof in Allan!

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  19. Allan Miller: Surprisingly popular in France.

    She’s actually an immigrant. My neighbour’s partner is English and Meg is her dog who came with her.

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  20. Alan Fox: We have living proof in Allan!

    The water from boiling was an essential ingredient in mum’s gravy – such as could be wrestled from my grasp, at least. A forkful of flour in the meat juices, worked in with the back of said fork, then sufficient veg water (potato water only as last resort) to achieve the required consistency. None of that maltodextrose brown slop. I still do it the same way, right down to the fork, an eccentric way of transporting a powder.

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  21. graham2:
    Funny how attitudes to the virus thing are split so neatly on political (ideological) lines.Why should conservatives so strenuously deny it ?I have my own ideas but curious as to what others think.

    It seems part of a broader anti-science pattern among the right-wing-inclined (a covariance, not an absolute predictor, should anyone take exception). University of Lifers (as we elitists call ’em!), tend to be particularly hot on climate change, anti-vax, and blindness to the power of exponentiation. Now they have one of their own in the White House, it seems even worse, and the right wing media do their best to miseducate further.

    I just, for my sins, read a Daily Mail article trumpeting, misleadingly, that the crisis will be ‘over by Easter’. A modeller who warned of half a million deaths without mitigation is now predicting a peak (but long tail) in 3-4 weeks. “Why should I believe the guy who said we’d have half a million deaths?” said one commenter …

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  22. Allan Miller: a broader anti-science pattern among the right-wing-inclined

    Why would a conservative agenda predispose one against a favorable stance to science? It makes sense for specific topics, such as climate change, but there is no reason for it to spread to epidemiological predictions, right?

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  23. Corneel: Why would a conservative agenda predispose one against a favorable stance to science? It makes sense for specific topics, such as climate change, but there is no reason for it to spread to epidemiological predictions, right?

    I think the two are related. Climate change and pandemic mitigation both potentially result in restrictions of freedom, greater international co-operation and restraint on economic growth. These Shall Not Stand.

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  24. Corneel,

    Isn’t it obvious why the Republicans have tried to downplay this mess from the very beginning? They are apoplectic that it is going to upset their little stock market boondoggle. They know full well that is the only way they hold on to power. They get their big corporate donations, they get the lobbying bribe money, and then they just plug their eyes and ears to prevent even listening to concerns of real Americans. They don’t need to care about fracking away the country, about huge deficits, and out of control military spending, they don’t give a dam about long term national benefits, or about preventing the obscene income gaps. Which side is the one saying they need a corporate slush fund in their bailout bill, but complain that if they give the money to average citizens? Because you know what that does? It makes people lazy! Ask Lindsey Graham. Ask Ben Sasse.

    “If you go into any coffee shop in Nebraska … and you say, ‘Do we as a people think what America wants to do is say, “Let’s have the federal government build a program that says we want to incentivize severing people’s work relationships?”’ Hell no!” he said.

    The fundamental difference between the Republican Party in America and the Democratic Party has ALWAYS been that the Republican Party will always take the side of big business and personal interests, over the welfare and common good of the country. That is undeniable. The whole principal of the tea party and the conservative right is about inflicting their moral values on others, using government money exclusively for helping military and big business, and then falsely claiming that so called “entitlements” (their bullshit bogus phrase) are the real evil in society. Because you know the Trumpets, they don’t go to war, they don’t pay taxes, they don’t pay their debts, they don’t pay their workers, but boy do they love their government handouts for them and their pals!

    Read sometime about how the prison system of America got privatized, and that will give you a very good picture of just how fucked up the American way is. If you want to be a good Republican, it helps to be a narcissist sociopath.

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  25. Maybe Boris Johnson should go back to work. Can’t have the economy suffering. What’s a few sniffles?

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  26. Allan Miller: Climate change and pandemic mitigation both potentially result in restrictions of freedom, greater international co-operation and restraint on economic growth. These Shall Not Stand.

    Sounds plausible, but that cannot be the entire story. Letting the pandemic loose without restriction would result in a catastrophic economic recession (aside from the devastation caused by overloading the health care system). In the long run, the economic interests of conservatives will be harmed by their anti-scientific attitude.

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  27. phoodoo: The fundamental difference between the Republican Party in America and the Democratic Party has ALWAYS been that the Republican Party will always take the side of big business and personal interests, over the welfare and common good of the country.

    Yes, that is its nature. What always surprised me is how they managed to procure the support of the masses that clearly do not benefit from Republican policy making. Conservatives are not necessarily rich people.

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  28. graham2: Funny how attitudes to the virus thing are split so neatly on political (ideological) lines. Why should conservatives so strenuously deny it?

    LoL.

    Where would you place the Chinese communist government on the political scale? Conservatives?

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  29. Corneel,

    In the long run, the economic interests of conservatives will be harmed by their anti-scientific attitude.

    In my experience, long term thinking tends not to be a strong suit. I think there’s a herd mentality too, bolstered by their media of choice. Our Daily Maiĺ needs no second asking to run stories undermining the scientific case on many an issue. Flood management is another hot-button issue with a simple(ton) Mail-inspired solution: ‘just dredge’.

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  30. Corneel: Yes, that is its nature. What always surprised me is how they managed to procure the support of the masses that clearly do not benefit from Republican policy making. Conservatives are not necessarily rich people.

    Saw that here too. Brexit was a factor, but a significant shift to the Right has been accompanied by an upsurge in votes for the anti-welfare, rich-pocket-lining Tories from among the ‘working classes’ and the disadvantaged north.

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  31. Mung,

    Which country has handled it better Mung? And the US had a nice big head start.

    You know, even with four times as many people, China is immensely safer than America. You can walk down virtually any street at night alone without a problem. There are no guns. No drug problems. People all have food, and the people don’t hate the police. People don’t go into stores and pretend they cough all over the food to make others sick, or go licking jars of ice cream just to bother other people. Even poor people are kind and generous.

    There is no perfect system, but I think maybe you have spent too much time drunk on the National Interest fumes. Is it any wonder that the entire country of China cooperated and did their part to make the country safe as fast as they could, meanwhile the orange idiot in Chief spends his time trying to carry out his little political hissy fits, and blaming anyone but himself, while they defunded the CDC, and with four times less people they already have more cases than here, and they can’t even get people to wear masks.

    And you have more people in prisons than any other country on Earth (run by companies who profit by getting more people arrested, and getting longer prison terms).

    Doing great huh?

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  32. I think the right wing is (genetically?) predisposed to fear. In particular, fear of “other” and fear of that which they cannot control. Easily explaining the resulting xenophobia and racism.
    In the England of my youth (the 70’s) the Labour/Conservative divide ran pretty neatly down socio-economic lines; in general, people voted in their own narrow economic self-interest. Moving to the USA, I was initially surprised at the significant numbers of poor Republicans. Took a while for me to understand the impressive trick involved in persuading poor people that their enemy were other poor people (originally blacks, thank you Nixon; more recently, immigrants) stealing their jobs. I understand that the same ruse has now also succeeded in England.
    But how does this all correlate with anti-science?
    I think it is fear of educated people telling me things I don’t fully understand and would really rather not believe. Science in general, with its inconvenient truths (I am just a clever ape, the ecosystem is going to hell in a handbasket), is an “other” that I cannot control. That scares me, and outright denial is the easiest path.
    Note the anti-intellectualism of the Tea Party and other right wing populists.

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  33. Mung: Where would you place the Chinese communist government on the political scale? Conservatives?

    More like technocratic totalitarian.

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  34. Now the orange moron is saying everyone has to get back to work already. What a fucking idiot.

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  35. Corneel: What always surprised me is how they managed to procure the support of the masses that clearly do not benefit from Republican policy making.

    That’s actually easy.

    The Republicans went racist. And, because of that, they picked up the support of the racists. This started at a time when many of the trade unions were racist, and fought against affirmative action policies.

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  36. Mung: lol

    And your point is? Just because we are skeptics doesn’t mean we can’t also be optimists! 😉

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  37. Let me add a little fuel to that fire: one good day soon this whole Covid stupidity will blow over and no one will remember one thing. If Covid, Wuhan, Zika, Ebola or plain wear and tear, everyone dies sooner or later. Take reasonable precautions and make sure not to screw up by trying to fix things to perfection.

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  38. Nonlin.org,

    In case you hadn’t read the OP!

    Usual rules apply plus a guideline. Let’s be kind and supportive to each other

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  39. Corneel,

    Part of the strategy of the Republican party to bolster the fortunes of fossil fuel executives has been broad science denialism. What started as an attempt to undermine the consensus on climate change morphed over time into a broader and broader assault on the idea of “expertise,” resulting now in a president who is willing to go on live national television and say that a state which has become a COVID epicenter (New York) does not need 20-30,000 ventilators because he has been in hospitals where only 2 ventilators were present, despite medical experts telling him otherwise.

    However, the entire practice has its roots much farther back than climate science denialism; conservatives in the country have long fought against the idea that an expert in science could prove something that they didn’t want to believe. Look all the way back to the Scopes trial; there used to be significant laws in conservative (largely southern) states actually preventing teachers from teaching evolution to grade school students because it went against the Bible. In the modern day, with Republicans as the conservative party in the US, they realize the broad popularity of deferring to god or to the moral indigence of uneducated masses over expertise and its ability to get them elected.

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  40. And yet there are many people on this very site who deny the existence of God, a truth that is blatantly obvious to almost everyone.

    The irony.

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