An interesting article by Zack Koplin on creationism in Texas caught my eye on my Yahoo news feed. Setting aside the fact that I had no idea it was legal to teach creationism in Texas, I was equally surprised to discover the workings to remove such behind the scenes:
Aaah, it couldn’t happen to a more shabby scam.
Glen Davidson
Sounds kind of iffy.
In an otherwise dismal election year, there has been one bright and shining silver lining. I haven’t seen a single reference to religion.
That’s because Clinton keeps her Methodism to himself, and if Trump started talking about his faith in Christ, the laughter would be deafening. No one would believe him. Falwell Jr endorsed him at Liberty University and Liberty University’s own students wrote an open letter condemning the endorsement.
I suspect before the week is over, the Methodists will thank her for keeping it to herself.
And yes, there has been a lot of reluctance among evangelicals and conservative Christians to support Trump. I find that in his favor.
petrushka, “I haven’t seen a single reference to religion.” Um, what about all that chatter about keeping Muslims out of the country?
I never followed this election as both parties leaders are terrible and a continuing disaster, following Obama, for all things bright and beautiful. only reagan was a great prez.
Anyways.
It should be a election issue , I guess for republicans, to demand the return of their rights to not have state censorship.
They miss a excellent, adventurous, and historic cause of human freedom and Christianity etc.
If texas creationism is claimed to be threatened WELL it could only be its there because of successful activism in the first place.
so its a see saw battle like in any struggle.
Creationists have the moral, intellectual, legal, and popular high ground.
they just need to get their act together and caere.
Its not just about creationism but the greater human struggle for truth and rights and freedoms for truth in a free nation with conclusions about same.
Its so sad seeing clinton or tRump being president.
Its a punishment on America. the g;ory is tainted. However it was with obama too.
Actually not much different then the presidents before Lincoln and after. All forgotten and uninteresting.
At times I feel an urgent need to shower after participating on TSZ.
I wonder out loud whether many of us are playing the part of co-dependent by empowering or enabling dysfunctional behavior and inadvertently legitimizing intellectual dishonesty such as reported here in Texas.
Apparently the article referenced in the OP left something to be desired.
Is Texas About To Weaken Its Evolution Standards?
See also:
On Texas Science Standards
In case anyone cares about getting the actual facts right.
Kopplin’s article was a bit confusing: No matter what this board decides, creationism will not disappear from Texas. And the part about the election of a new committee member was downright puzzling. Is the Republican candidate a threat or a hope?
Mung lines up with the Discovery Institute and with something called PJ Media that seems to think Reasons To Believe is credible on the questions of what is to be taught.
Surprise, surprise.
What a crock.
Teaching creationism in public schools is ALREADY illegal in Texas, and in every other state.
Right, Joe?
So the above quote is from a comment I made? Or is it by somebody else? Attribution, please. It wasn’t me.
Re: “Teaching creationism in Texas public schools may become illegal next year.”
Mung is citing the first sentence of the article cited in the original OP
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/31/creationism-in-texas-could-go-extinct-on-election-day.html
I shake my head with dismay and repose the question I asked above:
I don’t believe the creationists’ behavior would change if we weren’t discussing their irrationality here. Once blatant creationism was found to be unconstitutional, they went from “creation science” to “intelligent design” to “teach the controversy” to “strengths and weaknesses”, looking for loopholes in the law. They’ll keep trying until they die out.
My primary purpose in following fora like this one is to learn what new techniques they’re developing to attempt to push their sectarian dogma into public schools. I have little hope that any of them will learn the science — if they could they wouldn’t be creationists.
But Patrick, don’t you consider me to be a creationist?
I have no idea what the hell you are.
I will say that you’re not embarrassing yourself in the entropy discussion.
That makes two of us!
My point exactly – we are providing an all too often dim-witted enemy a proxy-forum to sharpen their teeth and test their strategies before inflicting their damage publicly.
But therein lies the rub. The enemy is honing their new techniques on fora such as this one in order to avoid overt embarrassment when they push their agenda in arenæ such as Texas.
You have a point. That seems to be exactly what Sal Cordova is doing here. I suspect he wants to be the next Duane Gish.
On the plus side, generally they’re not all that bright.
Someone’s usually going to engage in “breathtaking inanity,” no matter how much the DI tries to stick to script.
Glen Davidson
Here’s an arena in Texas.
Here’s the Texas Arena (also in Texas).
Not everybody in the enemy camp is as dim-witted as Sal et al…
Salvador is quite intelligent, but intelligence isn’t an indicator of character.
It would appear that a broken clock can be correct twice a day (well in this instance, once actually, well… not even maybe). I am however obliged to agree with your assessment that “character” is important.
I for one would never break the 10th Commandment and bear false witness.
True. The whole “Ix-nay on the Od-gay” memo from the Discovery Institute didn’t prevent Dover.
Kitzmas is only a month away!
Not even to save your kid?
ETA: BTW, I can’t remember if we’ve had this debate here before or not (I think we have), but I was taught the “shall not covet” one was #10.
Hi Walto – right you are. In my defense, I never claimed to be an expert on matters biblical
I should have cited Commandment #8 or #9 depending on denominational persuasion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Traditions_for_numbering
best regards
Your rebutal regarding Pikuach Nefesh (Hebrew: פיקוח נפש) is also well taken. While we are at it – I am also guilty of Lashón Hará (Heb לשון הרע )- which as Mung correctly observes constitutes a failure of character on my part and I deserved to be chastised.
My apologies to one and all – in particular Sal. My anger took over, but I still should have demonstrated better control.
What makes you think the push is limited to the public school market?
There is the home school arena, private schools, there are colleges, churches and Sunday schools and seminaries. There are also private and public channels.
Do you think Gunter Bechly jumped the evolutionary ship because creationists infiltrated the public schools?
Dean Kenyon (Origin of Life Researcher), Michael Behe (biochemist), John Sanford (renowned genetic engineer), Richard Sternberg (evolutionary biologist)….do you think they changed their minds because of public school infiltration by creationists?
And then there is the NIH ENCODE project promoting the “evolution-free gospel of ENCODE” according to Dan Graur himself. That “evolution-free gospel” didn’t come from creationists, it came from medical researchers. Creationists didn’t invent the “evolution free-gospel of ENCODE”, the ENCODE project did.
Were the creationists responsible for Craig Ventner rejecting universal common ancestry? No, the data did it for him.
You’re giving too much credit to dogma and marketing, when the credit goes to God put in biology physical evidence to prevent evolutionists from being able to once and for all prove their claims that integrated complexity like life is the expected outcome of ordinary processes.
The materials I and others are writing are for private channels. Besides, taxation to fund public schools is not very libertarian. Let parents pay and provide for their kids education, not the government through taxation. That way parents have better control of what the kids learn.
People can learn science without accepting universal common ancestry.
I don’t. You SOBs are constantly trying to subvert most secular organizations.
If people choose to indoctrinate their children in irrational beliefs with their own resources there is little others can do except point out that it is a form of child abuse.
No, I think whatever emotional reasons behind his conversion are more important to him than scientific accuracy.
Nope, I think that they are good examples of the harm religion can cause.
Your interpretations of the ENCODE project are idiosyncratic at best.
I am unfamiliar with Ventner’s rejection of common ancestry or his reasons for it if that is in fact the case.
I’ve never seen a god pushing sectarian dogma into public schools and laws. I have seen far too many scientifically ignorant theists doing so.
That doesn’t make it any less child abuse nor any more rational.
Patrick,
I believe you yourself just provided the proof positive required for my earlier suggested thesis above.
QED
Well, Sal is claiming that he’s only going to use the arguments he’s developing here in private settings. I find that hard to believe given the historical behavior of creationists.
Private as in not publicly funded — as not using public school money to reach public school kids. We can reach public school kids without using public schools. The private channels are churches, sunday schools, direct contact, youtubes, books, etc.
Private child abuse. You should be proud of yourself.
Bwahaha!
All of Sal’s arguments acquire what force they have from a prior belief in their conclusions. And “Richard Sternberg (evolutionary biologist)”; seriously?
If you have an argument for public child abuse I’d like to hear it.
That’s an interesting lunchtime hack idea. I’ll let you know if I come up with anything.
Trump/Pence. Teaching Creationism in schools is now legal!
John Harshman,
Oh, and Nilsson Pelger a great example of novel feature evolution, seriously?
Unfortunately, the creationists retained their seats on the Texas Board of Education.
Patrick, is there some reason this is not a STATE matter? You don’t live in Texas, what business is it of yours? Do you have plans to move to Texas?
You’re a Libertarian? Hah!
One answer is that a threat to the constitution anywhere in the U.S. is a serious matter.
Another answer is that Texas has a disproportionate impact on textbooks all over the country.
I’m not too informed about USA administrative matters. What about the election of the judge that’s missing from the Supreme Court? Will the election of Trump have any effect there?
This election will have major impact on the makeup of the Supreme Court. There is now no reason for the Republicans in the Senate to approve Obama’s proposed new justice. They’ll wait for Trump to take office and he’ll propose someone more ideologically compatible. It could be very bad for reproductive rights.
That’s just silly Patrick. No one is being told they cannot reproduce.
Yes, we could see “will you vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade?” as an ideological litmus test for the next Supreme Court justice — or more than one.
I don’t think that Trump really cares one way or another about reproductive rights, but Pence surely does. It’s Pence, McConnell, and Ryan who will be crafting legislation and getting it passed and signed. Trump just wants the attention.
The U.S. is looking at bad, scary days ahead.
Damn.
Anti-vaccines, anti evolution, anti climate change… when was the last time a government in the USA was so anti-science and had a majority in the senate to screw everyone up?
LoL. Maybe I should go out and buy a gun.
I would love to debate this Zack Koplin to prove he doesn’t understand science and should just stay out of it.