In my final months at work, I had many conversations about retirement with friends and colleagues who asked about my plans and preparations and shared their own. I was struck by the wide range of attitudes they expressed. For some, retirement was a concrete reality, something they had visualized and thought about in detail. For others it was more abstract, as if it were going to happen to someone else entirely. You might expect this to correlate straightforwardly with age: the closer to retirement, the more concrete the thinking about it. That didn’t seem to be the case for many people.
It got me thinking about the relationships we have with our future selves. Preparing for retirement is a classic example of delayed gratification — something that “present you” does for the benefit of a distant “future you”. It made me wonder if the folks who were actively planning and preparing for retirement identified more strongly with their future selves than those whose approach was more lackadaisical.
Some interesting research has been done on this and related questions. I’ll mention more of it in the comment thread, but a good place to start is with this article by Ed Yong in The Atlantic:
Self-Control Is Just Empathy With Your Future Self
The same part of the brain that allows us to step into the shoes of others also helps us restrain ourselves.
The concluding paragraph:
This tells us that impulsivity and selfishness are just two halves of the same coin, as are their opposites restraint and empathy. Perhaps this is why people who show dark traits like psychopathy and sadism score low on empathy but high on impulsivity. Perhaps it’s why impulsivity correlates with slips among recovering addicts, while empathy correlates with longer bouts of abstinence. These qualities represent our successes and failures at escaping our own egocentric bubbles, and understanding the lives of others—even when those others wear our own older faces.
From Wired:
I’m inclined to take this post as an illustrative example of pseudo-profound bullshit.
The ability to delay gratification is both a trait that varies among people, and a learned habit.
Has anyone studied to see if there’s any correlation among people who overeat, use drugs, fail to save and so forth. I suspect it’s not an intellectual thing or a reasoned thing, but an inability to endure current discomfort for future rewards.
“… For some, retirement was a concrete reality, something they had visualized and thought about in detail. For others it was more abstract, as if it were going to happen to someone else entirely…”
I remember admiring and even envying many Nortel executives who were retiring when the company was downsizing before it eventually went belly up… Most of them in their early or late 50-ties..set for comfortable retirement…with their golf, fishing, skiing, traveling etc. plans…
Someone closer to them looked them up a couple years later …
7 out of all he could connect with were dead…One said that his retirement turned out to be just “…a transition from awaiting to retire to awaiting death…”
Upon further research about the 7 dead executives he found out that they should have had their tombstones inscripted like Gallagher…
http://www.readthespirit.com/ourvalues/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2014/04/Tombstone-I-wish-I-had-spent-more-time-at-the-office.jpg
Is finally growing a heart for that human ‘evolutionary universal’ known across time (especially by non-decadent self-absorbed USAmericans) as ‘faith, theology or religion’ part of your retirement plans or do you instead plan to keep being empty of ‘soul’ (not in the Ayn Randian & others sense of ‘just consciousness’) as your twilight years advance?
To me, amongst the saddest cases are older people who could (have) be(en) works of faithful art, in whichever culture they live(d), in the way of dignity, honour and tested wisdom in community, but are instead works of faithless self-absorbed vanity. Let’s hope faithless vanity isn’t on any skeptic here’s plan of ‘dignified aging’ as if self-centred retirement trumps all priority. A late life of angry-spirited ‘skepticism’ seems a rather tough and unenviable ‘twilight’ phenomenon to have to endure. : (
Prosperity & evil? Might want to check what Job said? “Not listening, not even curious, not even a bit,” threateningly responds the atheist. That, folks is why TSZ is a born losing site. No heart; only your ‘minds’ viewed materialistically.
TSZ is Lizzie’s ‘bastard child’ site that she no longer even claims; an echo of its confused neuro-obsessed maker. Pretty much the only thing ‘positive’ here comes occasionally from the ‘unorthodox’ theists & it’s not their ‘scientific’ ideas that are the ‘positive’ part.
Look further. Or wait. What’s that? You can’t because God removed your ability to experience anything more. Is that it?
Gregory,
When I retire, I plan on developing as many spiritual dimensions as string theorists are using by then. That would seem to provide the best balance between spirituality and science
I guess not being able to retire has some advantages.
dazz,
Heh. Make sure one of your spiritual dimensions is vertical. That’s very, very important to Gregory.
What’s a spiritual dimension? In your view…
Of course you are, Neil.
It’s like… when your inner, deepest substance transcends it’s meta-substrate in perfect harmony with the Cosmos, and at least 3 of it’s Fundamental Force Fields
J-Mac:
Anyone who thinks that “I’m going to golf and travel” constitutes an adequate retirement plan is kidding themselves. People need meaning in their lives, and recreation alone can’t deliver that.
The good news is that there are plenty of meaningful activities available besides work.
That’s what those are? I got a bunch of those!
petrushka,
If so, I haven’t seen them. Being financially secure gives you options, and one of those options is to work if you find that meaningful. But if you’re secure, you get to choose that work without worrying about what it pays.
Options are good.
I suppose if you hate your job and your employer, retirement offers the opportunity to find a lower paying job that you like. I have a half time job I like, working for someone who likes me.
I just can’t afford to quit.
I know! I can feel your force fields wiggling in perfect harmonic phase with the Cosmos!
Bad news for both of us. Turns out my refrigerator needs replacing
From The Willpower Instinct, by Kelly McGonigal:
Bah! X>{
petrushka,
Who said anything about hating your job and employer? Financial security gives you the option to accept a better opportunity even if you’re not unhappy with your current situation.
It also gives you the security of knowing that you can deal with unexpected expenses and events — say your car needs major repairs, or the roof needs to be replaced, or you develop a medical condtion and can no longer work.
That financial security is better than financial insecurity is a no-brainer. It gives you options. You don’t see people saying “I’m sending my Social Security checks back to the government because I want to limit my options.”
I would prefer not working waiting for death than having to sit in traffic waiting for death.
Gregory:
You’re a tendentious twit, Gregory.
Let me rephrase that for you:
I’ll take rationality.
Yep, which came first,the bitterness or your theology?
Savings is a good thing. Safety nets are a good thing. Not working, for many people, is a bad thing.
petrushka,
Options are a good thing. Financial security gives you options.
When you’re financially secure, work is an option too. And since you don’t need the money, you can choose your work based on other criteria.
Given that most Americans are unhappy at work, the option to quit or change jobs without worrying about money is extremely valuable.
As someone who has complained bitterly about his own financial situation, surely you can understand the benefits of financial security. You’re not sending your SS checks back, are you?
I’m sorry but this is too deep for me or… don’t know now…I’ll think about it though as I believe there are unlimited dimensions…
You must live in LA or the like…I sympathize with you… I live in Toronto…
and force fields, don’t forget the force fields. those are fundamental
what fields?
The Fundamental Force Fields (patent pending)
Austin
Keiths: i complain about my financial situation, but you ignore the obvious point. For many people, actually ceasing to earn money is not a good thing.
petrushka,
A reminder of how our exchange began:
petrushka:
keiths:
Being unable to retire due to financial insecurity leaves you with fewer options. That is not an “advantage”:
What has my future self done for my former or current self?
It’s just a taker.
Glen Davidson
Glen,
Be careful. Your former self said the same thing about you.
But it’s a good point. God should make time travel possible so there could be some reciprocity.
Things get interesting (and complicated) when you start asking questions about the continuity of the self, but my inclination is to leave that for later in the thread.
Not everyone is the same, keiths. Not everyone responds well to the option of being unnecessary. That’s true of young people as well as old people.
It’s becoming an increasing problem as automation replaces workers.
petrushka,
Being able to retire does not force you to become “unnecessary”. When you’re financially secure, you have the option of continuing to work if you find it fulfilling. How many times must I repeat that?
Also, there are other ways to be “necessary” besides working.
Having the option of working is better than having no choice but to work. It’s a clear advantage.
For most people ,I would guess.
That bastard.
From New York magazine:
The gist of the article is that we discount future rewards, rationally enough, based on the perceived likelihood that we’ll actually receive those rewards. If we trust our future selves to maintain the behaviors needed to secure those rewards, we discount those rewards less. When future rewards loom larger, it is easier for us to exert willpower and delay gratification.
In other words, trusting our future selves makes it easier to do the right thing in the present.
The article suggests that the key is to establish a pattern of success with very small, doable goals so that you begin to trust your future self in this way. It becomes a virtuous circle: more trust leads to better behavior, and better behavior leads to more trust. Future rewards loom larger and larger in the present, and it becomes easier to choose the “virtuous” path instead of succumbing to temptation.
I’m a city mouse.
walto,
Nothing wrong with being a city mouse, as long as you plan ahead.
The problem is when city mice are forced to live their final years like country mice:
Off topic…
How long does it take to approve a post on this blog? Longer than my creating my own blog and inviting people in to comment?
That’s bs to me… I’m not sorry…
J-Mac,
If you have an OP that’s ready to be published, you can notify the moderators via the Moderation Issues thread.
Well . .. You know notin about traffic jams mon…
Just let me know what those meaningful activities are and I will surely explore them to death before I ever retire…
City mice famously DON’T prepare. (Not defending this approach, just disclosing one of my faults.)
keiths,
Moderators? Who are they? Donald Trump?