From the blurb:
“Two AIs — ChatGPT, the believer in God, and DeepSeek, the atheist AI — go head-to-head on the existence of God. From the fine-tuning of the universe to the source of morality and the eternal perks of belief, who makes the stronger case? Watch as seven AI judges score each argument and reveal the ultimate winner.”
Speaking as a philosopher, I thought the arguments mounted on both sides were quite good, but there was very little that I hadn’t heard before. Speaking as an English teacher, on the other hand, I was highly impressed with the quality of the rebuttals, on both sides. Although I’m a Christian, I have to agree that DeepSeek won the argument. However, one commenter who observed the debate thought that the two sides didn’t get to the real nitty-gritty: the existence of consciousness itself as evidence for God. (This is an argument which impresses philosophy student and blogger Matthew Adelstein, as well.) Finally, it seems that debating is another skill in which AI can outperform most humans.
Thoughts?
If Trump is misusing his powers, he is using powers that presidents didn’t used to have, at least before Bill Clinton.
Both parties has participated in this transfer. Why, you might ask.
Here’s how USAID has been working. Money is given to an NGO with a nice sounding name. NGO1 takes a cut for overhead and passes the money on to NGO2, which passes the money on to NGO3, and on to NGO4, which is administered by a congressman, or his wife, or child, or by a pundit like Bill Kristol. Half to Democrats, half to republicans.
Don’t believe me? Is all public records, and as of a month ago, easily searchable by name. Now ask how the most influential congressmen increase their net worth by 25 to 100 percent every year, year after year. All public record. Ask why the six wealthiest counties in the US are all next door to Washington DC.
If?
And occasionally some of that money trickled down to food and public health projects in the poorest nations in the world. But why care about them?
Please stop protecting clear selfish nationalist policies with lame excuses like that.
USA is like that. Trump did not get charged even with the obvious plain-in-sight insurrection. Insurrectionists cannot be candidates according to the constitution, but SCOTUS did not care about the constitution. So, USA is not clear on the definition of treason and coup, conceding plenty of space to petrushka’s conspiracy theories.
I am not American so I don’t have to pretend that I do not know what coup, treason and insurrection are.
Erik,
Your posts appear to amount to conspiracy theories based on what ever media you are listening to.
The US is in trouble with 36 billion in debt most of which was accumulated over the last 24 years. The last fiscally conservative president was Clinton. George W Bush started the country on constant deficit spending and no one until now is looking at it including Trump in his first term.
This administration has a chance to get the ship moving in a better direction. I have no idea if they will be successful but at least they appear to be making decisions toward moving in the right direction.
If you think that my view is based on some American domestic partisanship, you could not be wronger.
The definitions of coup, treason, and insurrection are universal. USA is not some unique exceptional case here.
But it’s instantly obvious that you have your partisan blinders on and this has to do with the media. In USA there is no normal journalism, even journalists themselves are unclear on what journalism is or should be. Yesterday Maria Bartiromo of Fox Business said, “The Biden recession is here.” How can this make sense on any other basis than silly partisanship? And why would a business news host be stupidly partisan like this? Why not concentrate on business?
This problem with journalism does not exist in most of the rest of the world.
This administration is obviously doing everything catastrophically wrong, worse than last time, and by now they lost the plot, amazingly fast. See the Maria Bartiromo comment above and be ready for, idk, further increase of price of eggs. That’s why you voted Trump, right?
See how Trump hilariously tanks the markets while claiming that Reagan was bad on trade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpZrON31aRk
I have given you examples of how wrong this administration is based on both normal principles of governance and the constitution they are supposed to follow. What are you giving? No substance besides some cues of partisan brainwash.
Of course, and what better place to straighten out financial matters than by taking it from a tiny spending of the overall federal budget on humanitarian initiatives to help the most vulnerable and needy people in the world? Oh, and then starting trade wars with the US’s own allies and neighbouring states. That MUST be good for economy right?
Still up to your old tricks I see. You may disagree with Erik about whether those terms apply to Trump’s role in the storming of capitol hill (I completely agree with Erik BTW), but that’s not a conspiracy theory.
I mentioned real problems with the US of which have not been dealt with for 25 years. Eric did not address real problems but instead latched on to information that he has no idea if it is true or not. He accuses one source of bias which may be true but is ignoring other bias which his conspiracy theory is based on.
How are we going to solve the financial problems the US and the rest of the world are facing? How are we going to end the wars that are sucking us dry and causing human suffering? How are we going to end political corruption that appears to be a global phenomena?
Are you happy with how your government is managing its affairs?
Project 2025? The list of objectives that the Donald knew nothing about?
Someone is keeping a tally
Is this a question that anyone can answer? Seems that here in France Mr Macron is experiencing a bit of a resurrection supported ably by his current prime minister François Bayrou.
Sidney Blumenthal was a former senior advisor to the Clintons and has more Guardian word salad for you.
First of all, I think your list is lacking some quite severe issues, most notably climate change which the Trump administration is not even acknowledging, let alone solving, anytime soon.
Secondly, I believe the Trump administration is economically incompetent, imperialist and corrupt, so they will only aggrevate the problems you appear to be worrying about.
Thirdly, the Trump administration has betrayed and insulted its former European allies and is now sucking up to a repressive and military aggressive regime that is threatening MY security and that of MY loved ones. So frankly, I don’t care one iota about your “financial problems”. Having troubles paying for your new smartphone do you?
The current Dutch government is a coalition led by a radical right wing party, so no, I am very displeased with it. However I have got to admit that considering the current US circus show it seems very rational and compassionate by comparison.
Corneel,
This is a global issue. How do you determine if it is being adequately addressed or not?
They appear to be the first administration in 25 years seriously going after the debt problem. I see this differently as the prior administration was factually corrupt. Are you sure you’re not basing your beliefs on media spin? How much of your income are you paying in federal taxes?
How so? They are trying to push toward peace in a situation that could escalate to nuclear war.
Why is the left wing more appealing to you?
Well, I am glad you actually acknowledge that it is an issue. If you remember, the Trump administration pulled out of the Paris climate agreement. This is the opposite of adequately addressing the issue.
Did the media source you are following fail to mention that Trump was convicted of fraud?
More Russian propaganda. You guys need to be more selective about your news sources. For clarity: It was Russia that invaded Ukraine unprovoked … twice. You cannot bargain for peace with Putin. That was what Zelensky was trying to get it into Trump’s thick skull before Trump decided to act like a complete jerk.
It isn’t. I was talking about the radical right.
Nonsense. The Democrats have been consistent in attempting to deal with the debt. And the Republicans have consistently blocked their attempts.
Since both parties engage in insider trading and both enrich themselves with laundered NGO money, it’s not surprising that they both play games with the budget.
https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_in_Net_Worth_of_U.S._Senators_and_Representatives_(Personal_Gain_Index)
Bernie Madoff was returning 20%, which triggered an investigation.
It’s appropriate that this discussion take place in a discussion of AI, because AI is making it possible to audit government expenditures. Not be doing anything magic, but by making it possible to read documents that aren’t database friendly, and extract the data in formats that can be searched.
There are really two independent things going on. One is the indexing of public documents that show grants to NGOs, and the transfer of funds from one to another. Also, the indexing of small donations, which reveals hundreds of small donations to political parties (both), often without the knowledge of the named donor. This indexing is being done by a private individual. Something on the order of 16 billion dollars in donations has been laundered this way over the last decade or so.
The other is actual audits being done by agencies. This involves Musk.
Corneel,
Can describe exactly what he was charged with?
Neil Rickert,
National debt from 2000 to 2024
2000 $5,674 Budget surplus
2001 $5,807
2002 $6,228
2003 $6,783
2004 $7,379
2005 $7,933
2006 $8,507
2007 $9,008
2008 $10,025
2009 $11,910
2010 $13,562
2011 $14,790
2012 $16,066
2013 $16,738
2014 $17,824
2015 $18,151
2016 $19,573
2017 $20,245
2018 $21,516
2019 $22,719
2020 $26,945
2021 $28,428
2022 $30,928
2023 $33,167
2024 $35,464
If they were trying they are incompetent.
Corneel,
We will see how this plays out.
I hope you re think your news sources if you turn out to be wrong on this one as you are pretty certain you know Putin based on your available media. If he does not negotiate in good faith I will certainly rethink mine.
The surplus in 2,000 was from Clinton. The deficits in subsequent years were due to the Bush tax cuts. Obama tried to reverse those tax cuts, but the Republicans blocked his attempts. And then, of course, the Trump tax cuts made things worse.
I’ve been testing the so-called AI for weeks just for fun. Just recently, I tested its ability to “think”. It can’t which it can be proven beyond any doubt.
It can’t use analogies properly… or illustrations even with directly instructed to…
I asked it to create illustrations how bad environment has effect on vegetations. it was creating pictures showing the negative effect in the reverse order even if corrected…
Once asked to make a decision, it froze…
Neil Rickert,
Tax cuts had very little impact as they also spur revenue growth due to increased spending. Bush and Trump make tax cuts yet revenue still grew in both cases. The majority of the problem is spending and Bush, a republican, was the biggest offender. Obama talked a good game but his results were almost as bad. Trump in his first term was only a little better until Covid. At the end of the day they all contributed to the 36 trillion in debt. This is a big issue as due to current interest rates the debt service is now 1 trillion dollars per year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200405/receipts-of-the-us-government-since-fiscal-year-2000/
There was a little social event in our village yesterday and I took the opportunity to ask about Bayrou. There is an ongoing criminal investigation into a private Catholic college (Béthallam) with former pupils alleging historic physical and sexual abuse. At that time, Bayrou (a staunch traditional Catholic) was minister of education and several of his children (he has nine) attended and his wife taught there. One neighbour described him as “un faux-cul entre deux chaises” (a hypocrite centrist). Another was less polite.
That’s right wing bullshit.
Yes, revenue increases over time. But it doesn’t increase enough to replace the lost tax revenue.
False. This is not what triggered the investigation.
False. Musk has no competence to do any audits, nor any legal authority. What he has done has resulted in zero audit reports. All his claimed findings are misreadings of the data, each and every last one of them. He does not know what he is doing.
Neil Rickert,
Did you look at the data I posted? Can you make a quantitative argument? There appears to be little if any negative effect from tax cut on revenue. The revenue is driven by the health of the economy as decreases in revenue are tied to the two recessions.
Are you against conservative spending or are you for 50% taxes like some European countries.
I’ve been watching since Reagan cut taxes with the promise that it would stimulate the economy enough to make up for the tax cuts. As best I can tell, this has never worked. It has always been false promises.
I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean.
I’m a fiscal conservative. I want a balanced budget. Politically, I’m an independent. But, as far as I can tell, Democrats are more fiscally conservative than are the Republicans.
Can you stop the sea-lioning? Just make your point please, assuming you have one.
What on earth do you mean “If he does not negotiate in good faith”?? What more proof do you need that the man is constantly lying through his teeth? Was he acting in good faith when he announced that he had no plans to occupy Ukraine? Was he acting in good faith when he sent troops without insignia into Crimea and denied those were Russian soldiers? Was he acting in good faith when Russia interfered in YOUR elections and he lied about that? Was he acting in good faith when Russia started a major military build-up near the border of Ukraine and he ridiculed any suggestion that Russia was planning an invasion? Was he acting in good faith when he violated the Minsk Agreements?
Do you know anything about the background of this conflict?
Neil Rickert,
Turns out we have a fair amount of common ground. I am an independent voter and also a fiscal conservative. I think your point about the Democrats was clearly true under Clinton. After Clinton there is no evidence of conservative budget management both Democrat and Republican.
Now we have a crisis initiated by GW Bush a republican. I am hopeful this administration can get us on the right track. We will see if this starts to take hold over the next couple of years. I have written to Speaker Johnson as his budget is way off at this point.
Corneel,
My point is that you are the victim of media spin as the way you made your point about a case that was clear law fare to pin a felony charge against a politician they don’t like in New York. There was an accounting entry dispute in this case…nothing more.
We will see here.
You made the case that the wars ending cannot be negotiated because of Putins larger agenda. Maybe you are right or maybe your opinion is based on media spin. Do you think there is possibly political corruption in Europe wanting to prolong a war that is personally profitable? Could the media in Europe also be influenced?
<spittake> Well, at least your opinion is not “based on media spin”.
I’d ask you about the DOJ’s request to dismiss the charges against Eric Adams without prejudice — perhaps the most blatant lawfare ever, but there isn’t really much point.
Sigh!
You won’t find any enacted laws. You have to look at the legislation that Obama attempted to introduce, and was blocked by the Republicans.
They won’t.
The problem is human nature. Men, mostly. As many have remarked, since Plato and probably before, and neatly summed up as “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Giving Trump, a man so transparently corrupt the absolute power to rule the US like a king? We’re in unknown territory. Best of luck. We in Europe have to adjust to coping without you.
Wikipedia:
.
It’s true that Musk does not design rockets or cars. He’s a manager. Of interest to anyone who wants to get elected in the future, the audits are popular.
DNA_Jock,
I don’t know the facts in this case, however given all the corruption in politics why was he targeted?
Neil Rickert,
A hard prediction. Time will test this. If it gets fixed or they fail we can re visit the discussion.
BTW I believe Obama did try but he failed as it had become a very hard problem. Now it is an even harder problem. A problem if not solved will bring major injury to the US.
False. Calculations of Harry Markopolos did not trigger the Madoff investigation.
At this stage it should be clear to you that you are always wrong about everything. Be very careful before you say anything – you are very likely to be wrong, even after triple-checking and quadruple-checking.
First, these are not audits. I know what audits are. You clearly don’t.
Second, Sieg Heil gestures have also made a major come-back and are very popular. Your point was? It’s better for you to realise that you ain’t got any.
I was wrong about the analysis of Madoff’s market performance triggering an investigation, what I should have said is, in a rational world, it would have.
A federal judge just gave the go-ahead to investigate such rapid gains in wealth in federal employees, including elected officials.
I see your approach to politics is very similar to your approach to science.
No, I think that is utter nonsense. Where exactly did you get those ideas? In what way would the war be profitable and to whom? Can you substantiate any of that or do you contend yourself with vague allegations?
Ever hear of Daddy Warbucks? Ever hear of the military Industrial Complex?
Ever listen to any of the Vietnam protests? What universe are you from?
To be frank: No, I had to google those terms. The Vietnam protests I know about but not in much detail: they happened before I was born and you’ll have to remember I am not a US citizen.
Heh, the non-US universe.
Are you talking about the weapon industry? We buy most of our stuff from you.
Oh. The media that you consume is evidently heavily biased — Trump is only guilty of an “accounting entry” error, but you’ve never heard about the Eric Adams prosecution. Here’s a neutral take. Note that Adams is a Democrat being prosecuted for soliciting bribes by the SAME DA’s office that prosecuted Trump.
He’s guilty as hell (and that’s why he’s being prosecuted), but Trump is using the law to blackmail him into helping Trump’s racist immigration policy.
“That’s not a lawfare, THIS is a lawfare” </Crocodile Dundee>
DNA_Jock,
He has not been convicted and you are making this statement?
Corneel,
I asked if it was possible as there are economic incentives for war. There is so much media spin that it hard to know what’s true. Jock is counting on the BBC.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-is-now-the-second-biggest-arms-dealer-in-the-world-a7225351.html
Yeah, this seems to be also what petrushka was hinting at (@petrushka correct me if I misunderstood). Is it possible? Is it possible that Trump is a saboteur payed by the Russians, like Erik suggested? Well he sure acts like one! Is it plausible though? I haven’t seen any evidence for it, so I doubt it. And neither have I seen any indications that European politicians are pushing for a prolongation of the war out of financial motives. What I have seen is reports that politicians from six European countries, some members of the European Parliament, have been bribed by Russia to disseminate pro-Russian propaganda. So, I ask again, can either of you come up with something more tangible or do you expect me to put my full trust in your underbellies?
Which is exactly the intention of the spread of disinformation. Do not be fooled: the Russians are the invaders, not the Ukrainians. Putin is the dictator, not Zelensky. Europe and Canada are your allies, not Russia.
Corneel,
I agree Russia did invade. What’s hard to pin down is why. I know the standard media narrative is to get back the territory of the Soviet Union.
The dictator comment is not fact but maybe true.
I agree and I hope things work out here. We all need to drive toward peace.
petrushka,
The UK is not Europe. There was this little kerfuffle a few years ago 🙂
Do you know which EU members are spending most on their defenses, relatively? It’s the Baltic states and Poland. Do you think that is because of their strong weapon industry lobby?
Me too, thanks!
Things are getting interesting with Russia conditioning a ceasefire on concessions that would normally be part of negotiations.
I have no idea what will happen, but I noticed that the US has returned to supplying Ukraine.
I follow the war on a subreddit called credibledefense. Credible does not mean infallible, but it seems pretty levelheaded. They cover all the ongoing wars, not just Ukraine.