Unyielding Despair

Gregory has made the connection more than once between atheism and despair. But he wasn’t the first.

That Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man’s achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins — all these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul’s habitation henceforth be safely built.

– Bertrand Russell. A Free Man’s Worship

I’m thankful that my foundation is not one of unyielding despair.

The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with with a problem of pure metaphysics; he is also concerned to prove that there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do, or why his friends should not seize political power and govern in the way that they find most advantageous to themselves.

– Aldous Huxley. Ends and Means

I am also thankful that I do not believe that there is no valid reason why I personally should not do as I want to do, and that my friends have no desire to seize political power and govern in the way that they find most advantageous to themselves.

76 thoughts on “Unyielding Despair

  1. Moved a Gregory post to guano.

    @ Gregory

    Try to avoid attacking fellow posters, personally. Repost the substantive part of the comment, if you wish.

  2. Grace is open to many, should they choose to seek it and commit themselves. Welcoming all others of faith doesn’t make me their judge.

    The thing you don’t seem to want to understand (though you appear to try very hard to remain stuck in hatred and anger towards believers), walto, is that I am joining THEIR team too. We are not as stupid or as small as your little Farm College teaching resume makes you pretend you have some kind of egoist (now do you see what I mean, Lizzie?) authority to make.

    “how stupid these people must be! What a sweetheart!”

    Apparently I hold much greater hope in humanity than your petty elitism (what, as an accountant, bureaucrat, philosophist?!) allows you to see.

  3. Elizabeth,

    “how stupid these people must be!”

    I.e. meaning atheists (like Lizzie & Alan).

    Now, that’s exactly the same comment as you allowed ‘walto’ to post. Let’s just check your typical double-standards in favour of atheism at TAMSZ.

  4. Gregory:
    Alan Fox,

    That’s fine, Alan, while you comfort yourself of your eventual oblivion.

    I actually find the realisation, that my life will come to an end when I die, quite comforting. Also, it’s challenging: no second chances, no rehearsals. Our legacy will be our achievements, the memories we leave behind in others.

    Well, I’m a person of faith, welcoming all others of faith, across religions, into an engaging science, philosophy and theology/worldview conversation. Hopefully we can collaborate, even if the ‘soul’ of this site (and many of its militant members) is against it. :)

    At least you reject the claim that atheism is just another religion. You should get involved with attempts to settle the Israel/Palestine problem.

    Atheist, ignorant, despairing, empty-souled, anti-theists and angry anti-religious sub- or low-level human beings are not allowed.

    Well, excuse us if we still remain open to any commenters who wish to express a view without rancour and discuss their differences in the hope of at least seeing where they lie.

    We [who else is in your club, Gregory] have a right to defend ourselves from the empty relativistic lifestyle you people wish to promote.

    Live and let live is what I promote. It requires tolerance.

    Like in the recent thread with TAMSZ admin Patrick, the guy can barely dribble and can’t make a free throw to save his life, yet not only does he think he should be ‘starting’, he thinks (egoistically) that he should be the ‘captain’! :(Talk about Dunning-Kruger for atheists!!

    Khrushchev telegram response!

    You folks need to rise, sincerely in your hearts, to be included in this global conversation. This is the bottom of the bottom, though you may appear ‘nice’ and even ‘clever’ to each other.

    What global conversation? Do you have the link?

    Mere ‘skepticism’ is no excuse for being antagonistic or falsely arrogant ‘scientistic’ human assholes. You need to go beyond Lizzie’s apostate ‘brain’ to something much, much greater, full of grace and mercy and community. That door is not closed to persons who actually care, unlike Lizzie.

    It comes back to my earlier question. How do you know this? How did the universal creator communicate this to you?

  5. Elizabeth:
    Gregory, why are you so offended at the idea that some people don’t believe in your God?

    This post (like pretty much all of Gregory’s) addresses the poster, no?

    (The ad hom rule is unenforceable and must go.)

  6. Y’all are ok. As I’ve patiently explained several times (again most recently on the Moderation Issues thread), the rules are both silly and unenforceable.

  7. Gregory,

    Yes. I’m saying that we anthropomorphise hope and virtue, and call it “God”. But the hope and virtue are intrinsic to human nature whether we anthropomorphise it or not. They arise from our extraordinary mental capacities.

    No, Lizzie, ‘you,’ not ‘we’, anthropomorphise hope and virtue. You, meaning atheists. The vast majority of human beings doesn’t fall into your ‘we.’ Jews, Christians, Indigenous (Native Peoples), Muslims, Hindus, Bahai’s, et al. do not do that. We see life as a divine creation given to us by our Creator and we live our lives with that belief and connection.

    How you see it and what you are actually doing are not necessarily congruent.

  8. walto,

    Gregory, why are you so offended at the idea that some people don’t believe in your God?

    This post (like pretty much all of Gregory’s) addresses the poster, no?

    (The ad hom rule is unenforceable and must go.)

    I don’t see this as falling afoul of that rule. Elizabeth is asking a question based on Gregory’s observed behavior.

  9. Gregory:
    Alan Fox,

    That’s fine, Alan, while you comfort yourself of your eventual oblivion.

    Well, I’m a person of faith, welcoming all others of faith, across religions, into an engaging science, philosophy and theology/worldview conversation. Hopefully we can collaborate, even if the ‘soul’ of this site (and many of its militant members) is against it.

    Atheist, ignorant, despairing, empty-souled, anti-theists and angry anti-religious sub- or low-level human beings are not allowed. We have a right to defend ourselves from the empty relativistic lifestyle you people wish to promote. Like in the recent thread with TAMSZ admin Patrick, the guy can barely dribble and can’t make a free throw to save his life, yet not only does he think he should be ‘starting’, he thinks (egoistically) that he should be the ‘captain’!

    Talk about Dunning-Kruger for atheists!!

    You folks need to rise, sincerely in your hearts, to be included in this global conversation. This is the bottom of the bottom, though you may appear ‘nice’ and even ‘clever’ to each other.

    Mere ‘skepticism’ is no excuse for being antagonistic or falsely arrogant ‘scientistic’ human assholes. You need to go beyond Lizzie’s apostate ‘brain’ to something much, much greater, full of grace and mercy and community. That door is not closed to persons who actually care, unlike Lizzie.

    Why are you so angry? Why are theists so angry? I don’t get it.

  10. Gregory: Atheist, ignorant, despairing, empty-souled, anti-theists and angry anti-religious sub- or low-level human beings are not allowed.

    Yes we are and you can do nothing about it. We won’t allow you to reinstate your brutal and inhuman theocracies.

    Gregory: We have a right to defend ourselves

    In words and writing, yes of course. You can hold all the opinions you wish, and you can also express them. And those opinions, if they are sufficiently hostile and antagonistic, will naturally lead to certain consequences in the way those people about whom you express these opinions, react.

    Gregory: from the empty relativistic lifestyle you people wish to promote.

    My life is not empty, nor relativistic. I do not wish to promote anything empty, nor relativistic.

    What is it with these absurd caricatures of atheism? Holy hell did you buy into the whole shebang hook, line and sinker? I recommend you actually try and live your life as an atheist. No reason to stop caring about the people you love, or your friends, or experiences that give you pleasure and happiness. I think you’ll find it isn’t what you’ve been lead to believe it should be like. There are no orgies in blood, we don’t eat babies, we don’t worship Darwin, or Karl Marx, we don’t glorify despair and in fact, like everyone else, would rather avoid it and spend some time with friends, maybe have a party, go see a nice movie in the theater, have a nice dinner out, play games together, travel to foreign lands and see new landscapes, meet new people, visit famous places of history, hold conversations about the good old times etc. etc.

  11. Alan Fox: I think so. We try to give minority posters more leeway.

    Gregory is a minority of one, and therefore ought to be given the most leeway.

  12. Rumraket: Yes we are and you can do nothing about it. We won’t allow you to reinstate your brutal and inhuman theocracies.

    The last brutal and inhuman theocracy in Denmark was when, exactly?

  13. Mung: Gregory is a minority of one, and therefore ought to be given the most leeway.

    Gregory gets a lot of leeway.

    For example, one of his posts was sent to guano for calling a member “depraved”. So Gregory slightly reworded that, still implying that the member was depraved. That rewording was not moved to guano.

    If we did not give Gregory a lot of leeway, most of his posts would end up in guano.

  14. It’s public knowledge here that Gregory is being targeted.

    Oh, fair TSZ.
    Your colors, streaming brightly in the night.
    Posts shall not be disappeared. Unlike that other site.
    Free speech for all. No moral blight.
    Your post’s in Guano? An oversight.
    Hail Lizzie!

  15. Mung:
    It’s public knowledge here that Gregory is being targeted.

    Oh, fair TSZ.
    Your colors, streaming brightly in the night.
    Posts shall not be disappeared. Unlike that other site.
    Free speech for all. No moral blight.
    Your post’s in Guano? An oversight.
    Hail Lizzie!

    So much for your promise not to be an asshole. Or was that promise thread specific?

  16. Adapa: So much for your promise not to be an asshole. Or was that promise thread specific?

    Your asshole detection abilities are legendary. But given where your head is buried, I suspect that all you see is assholes.

  17. Rich:

    Gregory seems unhappy we are happy.

    Without believing in God, even. It creates a lot of cognitive dissonance for him.

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