There are only two sides, and you are on one or the other of them

Posted on by

We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides.

— Donald J. Trump

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.

— Martin Luther King, Jr.

I condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the involvement of President of the United States in the evil of racism. The counter-protesters in Charlottesville lapsed into evil, to be sure. Meeting violence with violence, they handed their adversaries a huge victory. But their error does not make them the moral equivalent of white nationalists, neo-Nazis, and Klansmen. Seizing on their error to construct such an equivalence, as Donald Trump has done, is positively obscene. “Grab them by the pussy” pales in comparison.

263 thoughts on “There are only two sides, and you are on one or the other of them”

  2. Rumraket: Yes I’m sure she’s a horrible person, with her being overweight and yelling. And whatever social and political viewpoints she considers herself aligned with must surely be bunk given her unattractiveness.

    Exactly that is why super models are the most politically astute.

  3. For the record, black lives really do matter like ALL lives.

    And I admit, there are days I imagine myself singing and dancing like Phil Bailey. I just don’t think a geeky Asian guy like me could look as good as Phil in his performance. I told that to a white girl and she couldn’t stop laughing:

    And I admit, I did enjoy wearing my pimp outfit when I visited the casinos. However, my pimp outfit wasn’t as good as this one:

  4. Tom English: But the broader issue is what we regard as evil, and what we regard as acceptable differences. When we go too far in our response to the latter, we cannot respond appropriately to the former.

    —————————————————————-
    Martin Luther King Jr, “Letter From a Birmingham Jail”:

    “How does one determine whether a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas: An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust. All segregation statutes are unjust because segregation distorts the soul and damages the personality. It gives the segregator a false sense of superiority and the segregated a false sense of inferiority. Segregation, to use the terminology of the Jewish philosopher Martin Buber, substitutes an “I it” relationship for an “I thou” relationship and ends up relegating persons to the status of things. Hence segregation is not only politically, economically and sociologically unsound, it is morally wrong and sinful. Paul Tillich has said that sin is separation. Is not segregation an existential expression of man’s tragic separation, his awful estrangement, his terrible sinfulness?”

  5. Antifa is associated with left-wing feminism. And regarding Rumraket’s post:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_feminism

    Fat feminism or fat-positive feminism is a form of feminism that merges with fat acceptance movement and specifically addresses how misogyny and sexism intersect with sizeism and anti-fat bias.
    ….
    emerged. In 1973, Fishman and Freespirit released Fat Liberation Manifesto in which they opposed size discrimination as sexism. Their movement was met with mixed reactions during the 60s, the same decade when Twiggy-esque figures became fashionable. Some of the feminists, such as Gloria Steinem and Jane Fonda active during the decade believed that removing traits of “femaleness” was necessary to gain entrance to a male-dominated society.[2] Activists continued to hold demonstrations and continued their course of action. When the fat feminists did not get support from National Organization for Women, they founded organizations to advocate size acceptance, such as Fat Underground, The Body Image Task Force (Santa Cruz) and The Body Positive.
    ….
    The 2000s saw an increase in internet feminism and internet fat activism, which have often converged. The fat acceptance blogosphere has been dubbed the “fatosphere”[6] and has enjoyed some positive publicity in mainstream publications. Kate Harding and Marianne Kirby, who are prominent fat bloggers, released a co-written self-help book in 2009 called “Lessons from the Fat-o-sphere: Quit Dieting and Declare a Truce with Your Body”, which has 27 chapters devoted to different topics, including body positivity, health at every size, and intuitive eating. In 2005 Linda Bacon conceived the Health at Every Size belief system, which rejects dieting and the weight-based paradigm of health.

  6. Tom English: It’s hard to believe that such a culture would emerge in the midst of the worst racism in the country. But I saw it for myself.

    Make me wonder if they weren’t Southern Baptist. 😉

  7. stcordova:
    Antifa is associated with left-wing feminism.

    And conservatism is associated with nazism, sexism and racism.

    There are extremist positions in all political leanings. What’s your point?

    And regarding Rumraket’s post:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_feminism

    That’s cool and all, but apparently obesity is overrepresented among religious conservatives. Why is that?

  8. phoodoo: Do you know we send 300 million dollars in aid every year south of the border, so those deadbeats can use that money to buy avocados and then sneak through the desert like rattlesnakes to come steal American jobs and suck off America’s tit?

    What American jobs are they stealing? The sub minimum-wage jobs that not citizen is willing to take? I hear the right wing nut jobs complain about all of the illegal Mexican immigrants, yet nothing about the American employers who exploit the cheap about with no repercussions.

    phoodoo:I notice you didn’t mention anything about border security when you said where you want your tax dollars going.

    Would it interest you to know that Canada has just set up refugee camps to accept those fleeing US tyranny?

  9. newton: The alt right thought it was and that was the point

    The Neo-Nazis couldn’t be happier that Trump refused to denounce them by name. They think that Charlottesville was a major victory and they have many more rallies planned. And as confrontations escalate (either through provocation or through all-to-predictable reaction from those that feel legitimately very threatened), the President will play his law-and-order-card alongside white solidarity, and so impose order that will resonate with fearful (and, alas, servile) citizens. AG Sessions would love to have BLM identified as a domestic terrorist group. Because in many districts law-enforcement and the executive have strong sympathies with white supremacy, and their opposition is weak and divided, this cycle will repeat on lots of levels. It’s the late days of the Weimar Republic all over again.

  10. phoodoo: But frankly, I don’t like my tax dollars going to them, just because they have never been caught stealing cars in east L.A.

    LoL.

  12. phoodoo: Look Sal, I am sure there are a lot of dark skinned people like you that actually work hard and don’t rape white girls.There must be.But frankly, I don’t like my tax dollars going to them, just because they have never been caught stealing cars in east L.A.

    Do you know we send 300 million dollars in aid every year south of the border, so those deadbeats can use that money to buy avocados and then sneak through the desert like rattlesnakes to come steal American jobs and suck off America’s tit?

    I notice you didn’t mention anything about border security when you said where you want your tax dollars going.And when your cousins come here to sell burritos, who is going to teach them English, you expect the government to do that?Aren’t there enough Americans who want to get into colleges now as it is, we gotta let those who didn’t help build America take those spots?

    When is enough enough Sal?

    Murica!

  13. Tom English: It’s heartening to see that you have the courage to say so. I’ve known a few conservative Protestants who reject the notion that a merciful and just God has no alternative to salvation but damnation. Just a few. I don’t see it in the Bible. When I took courses in the Bible as an undergrad, I was amazed to learn how much of what I’d been taught came from the Bible wasn’t actually there. Scripture was very carefully parceled in Southern Baptist churches, even before the conservatives took over.

    To this day, I enjoy reading the Bible. It’s not, for me, the “gotcha” thing it is for many atheists. It’s more a matter of figuring out what was going on around me when I was a kid, and figuring out what is going on with my family members now.

    Interesting…I’d learned what you have plus I also suspect that the teaching about the eternal soul is also made up…

    I really enjoy your personal experiences…Thanks!
    It made me look at you from a different prospective…
    I had gone through a similar process a while back and now I know that most of so-called christian religions teach nonsense…not found in the bible…

  14. stcordova: For the record, black lives really do matter like ALL lives.

    I think their point is ,black lives historically didn’t and that is still true.

  15. stcordova: Antifa is associated with left-wing feminism. And regarding Rumraket’s post:

    The Republican Party is associated Trump who is associated with Putin who is associated with Bashar al-Assad who is associated with chemical weapons used on civilians .Therefore Republicans support the use of chemical weapons on civilians

  16. D.Trump
    “Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”

    Fake news

  17. newton: I think their point is, black lives historically didn’t and that is still true.

    Black Lives Historically Didn’t Matter And That Is Still True just isn’t as catchy though.

  18. Acartia: Would it interest you to know that Canada has just set up refugee camps to accept those fleeing US tyranny?

    Oh goodness. Canada will not accept immigrants having retarded or chronically ill children. We shall see what becomes of the refugees. I haven’t seen yet that Canada has an open door policy to immigrants.

  19. petrushka: Canada will not accept immigrants having retarded or chronically ill children.

    I’m surprised by this claim. A quick Google search finds me:
    Health grounds

    38 (1) A foreign national is inadmissible on health grounds if their health condition

    (a) is likely to be a danger to public health;

    (b) is likely to be a danger to public safety; or

    (c) might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on health or social services.

    Marginal note:Exception

    (2) Paragraph (1)(c) does not apply in the case of a foreign national who

    (a) has been determined to be a member of the family class and to be the spouse, common-law partner or child of a sponsor within the meaning of the regulations;

    (b) has applied for a permanent resident visa as a Convention refugee or a person in similar circumstances;

    (c) is a protected person; or

    (d) is, where prescribed by the regulations, the spouse, common-law partner, child or other family member of a foreign national referred to in any of paragraphs (a) to (c).

    Is this what you are referring to?

  21. For all those who would like to draw an equivalence between the protestors and the counter-protestors, I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself about what happened on Friday night around the Jefferson statue.

  23. DNA_Jock:
    For all those who would like to draw an equivalence between the protestors and the counter-protestors, I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself about what happened on Friday night around the Jefferson statue.

    I’m curious about claims that Jason kessler was in the Occupy movement until last year. I’m going to refrain from forming an opinion until the dust settles.

  25. petrushka: I’m curious about claims that Jason kessler was in the Occupy movement until last year. I’m going to refrain from forming an opinion until the dust settles.

    If he was, were all the Neo-Nazis duped into being themselves? Or more like our President ,ideology is just a means of self promotion. This year Nazis are in

  26. “Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans,” the president said in a statement to reporters at the White House on Monday.

    “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence,” he said.

    Donald Trump
    8/14/17

    And:

    “Recent threats targeting Jewish community centers and vandalism of Jewish cemeteries, as well as last week’s shooting in Kansas City [of engineers from India[, remind us that while we may be a nation divided on policies, we are a country that stands united in condemning hate and evil in all its forms,” President Trump said.

    Donald Trump
    3/1/17

  27. Well well well,

    Look at Reverend Jesse Jackson honoring Donald Trump for his pioneering work in helping blacks. He got a life time of service recognition. About 19 years before he ran for president.

  31. stcordova:
    Well well well,

    Look at Reverend Jesse Jackson honoring Donald Trump for his pioneering work in helping blacks.He got a life time of service recognition.About 19 years before he ran for president.

    https://youtu.be/J5lcART6TTE

    You really want to use Jesse Jackson quotes about Donald Trump? From an opinion piece by Jackson:

    “Trump continues this tradition not by using “dog whistles” but a foghorn of racism, religious bigotry, sexism and xenophobia.

    Trump’s personal history of racial bigotry includes a federal housing discrimination lawsuit; an ad calling for the death penalty of innocent young black males in the Central Park Five rape case; an attempt to discredit Obama’s presidency with the “birther” issue; innuendo suggesting Obama became editor of Harvard’s Law Review because of his race; a campaign demanding Obama’s educational transcripts, implying his admission to colleges rested on something other than intellectual merit; complaints that a judge was unable to treat him fairly in court because of his Hispanic heritage; and promoting false and stereotypical information about the black community.”

  32. stcordova:
    Some years ago:

    https://youtu.be/V1kFqviAEHw

    A broken hearted former Grand Wizard , David Duke responds to Trump’s “hostage tape ” message.

    “President Trump, please, for God’s sake, don’t feel like you need to say these things,” Duke admonished in the video. “It’s not going to do you any good.”

  36. Robert Byers:

    Southeners always were a morally better people then the ‘africans” in the south.

    That’s a reprehensible thing to say.

    You say a lot of dumb crap. In fact it some of the stuff you say is so over the top idiotic, I thought you were a Darwinist pretending to be creationist.

    I’ve let some of the dumb crap you say go because you’re a creationist and usually on my side of the issues, but this is over the top.

  38. Oops. I shouldn’t make it seem that the title of the OP is less than entirely true.

    Hmm. Think. Think. Think.

    Think. Think. Think.

    Think. Think…

    Byers, you are on the side of evil, but you are not an evil person. I sentence you to clean sheets, three squares a day, and the best antipsychotics that money can buy — for life. Oh, yeah. Almost forgot. The inmate will never, ever be permitted to use a telecommunications device.

  39. Robert Byers,
    Notice to Robert Byers:

    This site does not support or promulgate racist views. Your account is currently in moderation. My thought is to close your account permanently but I will consult with Neil and Lizzie.

  40. Alan Fox,

    this phoodoo scumbag needs to go too…

    phoodoo: Look Sal, I am sure there are a lot of dark skinned people like you that actually work hard and don’t rape white girls.There must be.But frankly, I don’t like my tax dollars going to them, just because they have never been caught stealing cars in east L.A.

    Do you know we send 300 million dollars in aid every year south of the border, so those deadbeats can use that money to buy avocados and then sneak through the desert like rattlesnakes to come steal American jobs and suck off America’s tit?

    I notice you didn’t mention anything about border security when you said where you want your tax dollars going.And when your cousins come here to sell burritos, who is going to teach them English, you expect the government to do that?Aren’t there enough Americans who want to get into colleges now as it is, we gotta let those who didn’t help build America take those spots?

    When is enough enough Sal?

  41. dazz,
    Dazz

    I hadn’t read that comment before. I’ll move it to guano for now.

    Could I ask folks to PM me if they see stuff like this. Neither I nor Neil have time to read everything that gets posted at TSZ.

  43. Alan Fox:
    dazz,
    Dazz

    I hadn’t read that comment before. I’ll move it to guano for now.

    Could I ask folks to PM me if they see stuff like this. Neither I nor Neil have time to read everything that gets posted at TSZ.

    What do you mean Alan, what rule did you just make up off the top of your head that i broke now?

  48. Robert Byers:
    Tom English,

    I’m Canadian.
    first you use the term African american. then you use the term white. So these Africans get a title that gives a segregated identity but you deny Southeners a segregated identity. they are just white. like Swedes or Polish.
    Words matter. Terms matter.
    In reality there is no such thing as racism. its a left wing invention like,m anti-semitism, xenophobia, sexism , homophobia etc etc etc.
    To discredit conclusions or opinions of one people group toward another.
    These conclusions/opinions can be right or wrong, good or evil. thats not the point.
    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RACISM.
    Southeners always were a morally better people then the ‘africans” in the south.
    However both people groups were segregated in heart and in body as far as they could be.
    anyone alive today knows blacks think/live as segregated as can be.
    they never, as pretended, meant to become colour blind single people group.
    I have no moral problem with old southern segregationism by the southerners.
    ON:Y that it was illegal after the blacks became citizens and its a aggressive insistance that they would not accept/assimilate blacks like they did everyone else. europeans especially.
    That was the only sin. Mostly Southerners treated blacks with respect and kindness, and blacks right back. most people were good though determined to live segregated.
    Those days are over. Southeners don’t desire anymore to live like another segregated group. Like in New York city.
    Its the “africans” who want to think and live segregated.
    They cause the injustice and unhappiness more then southeners.
    On a curve.

    The Southener has not just become a republican but finally a true American. In fact he is called, as you are witness, WHITE. No different then white yankees.
    He has finally graduated. likewise many of the earlier european tribes.
    You know the tree by the fruit.
    People calling themselves after a foreign continent are people saying identity is important and segregation is okay. They just don’t want to be the losers.
    You should of taught Southern kids to get both sides. Then or now.

    All these problems come from the historic ethnic identities who congregate in the democratic party. Starting with the old Southeners etc.
    They provoke tiny, tiny, tiny, numbers of ‘whites”.
    There is not a moral equality between the people groups in America or Canada.

    Robert,

    Your god satan must be very proud of you…

    BTW: Robert’s example is not an isolated one among the so-called Christians… Racism and hate toward other religions even other Christian ones is promoted either directly or indirectly in many churches today in Canada and US. In Eastern Europe especially, the churches are deeply involved in promoting Islamophobia as well as discrimination and hate toward religious minorities such as evangelical Christian churches…

    Robert is a product on long indoctrination by his church…There are many, many more like him who are not as crazy as him to admit their prejudice and hatred on a public forum…

  49. newton: A broken hearted former Grand Wizard , David Duke responds to Trump’s “hostage tape ” message.

    “President Trump, please, for God’s sake, don’t feel like you need to say these things,” Duke admonished in the video. “It’s not going to do you any good.”

    A tearful reunion :
    David Duke , famous anti Semitic former Republican candidate on Trump’s statement that there are good guys on the white nationalist,klan ,nazi , anti Semitic side.

    “Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/897554574663442432 …

  50. newton,

    More of it here.

    I can’t tell you how upset I am, let alone all of the reasons for it. The story isn’t that the President of the United States has just sided with the far right. It’s that he decided, sometime within the past day, to drop all pretenses of being something other than our worst nightmare.

Leave a Reply