We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides.
— Donald J. Trump
He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
— Martin Luther King, Jr.
I condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the involvement of President of the United States in the evil of racism. The counter-protesters in Charlottesville lapsed into evil, to be sure. Meeting violence with violence, they handed their adversaries a huge victory. But their error does not make them the moral equivalent of white nationalists, neo-Nazis, and Klansmen. Seizing on their error to construct such an equivalence, as Donald Trump has done, is positively obscene. “Grab them by the pussy” pales in comparison.
Michael Gerson, “Trump babbles in the face of tragedy“:
I don’t see these as mutually exclusive. I think both are true.
The Daily Stormer (Nazi website):
Later:
Emphasis in original.
“Antifa” are anti-fascists.
Definitely both.
That’s a pretty sexist comment. Trumpesque even.
The National Enquirer seems to have gathered the relevant facts.
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/photos/donald-trump-barack-obama-feud/
It’s an Obama plot.
In context, definitely both. The sentence is transitional. Here’s how the opinion piece opens:
nazi bueno, nazi muerto
It’s got to be. Fields’s mother’s name is Bloom, which is almost always a Jewish name. And he looks Jewish, too. I learned all of this at the Nazi site I linked to above, the Daily Storm. Also, Vanguard America, “The Face of American Fascism,” says he wasn’t a member, even though he marched with them, and carried one of their shields. All you had to do to get a shield was to show up. They made a mistake in laying themselves open to Jewish infiltrators. I’m sure that, in the future, they’ll look harder at men who show up, and refuse shields to those who look Jewish.
[Oops, clicked before finishing. ETA:] “How George Soros is helping Obama Democrats buy their way back to power,” by Texas Governor Greg Abbott.
Jews cringe when a white man looks them straight in the eyes. I didn’t read that anywhere. But, really, it stands to reason.
I wouldn’t have used the comparison as an intensifier if I hadn’t thought his “locker room talk” was pretty damned obscene.
What I was actually thinking about, in all honesty, was the many form-over-substance evangelicals I know. In their paltry, rule-based judgment, obscenity is naughty words and female nipples slipping above the sheet.
What has always struck me as most obscene about “Grab them by the pussy” was that it came from a 59-year-old father of two women.
From my quotation of the Daily Storm above:
“Grab them by the pussy” gave these guys a genital thrill. But what truly excited them was Trump, not the pussy. Their “manliness” and misogyny are consequences of repressed homosexuality.
Inside every fascist, there’s a queen aching to get out. Destigmatize alt-sex, and there will be no more alt-right.
When the first reason you give for not hitting on your daughter is that you’re married, obscene seems not unexpected
The most obscene thing I’ve ever heard, up close and personal, was in a gathering of folks at my home. It came in 1990, during the embargo of Iraq (prior to the invasion). Someone expressed concern for the innocents that would die in military action. And a devout Christian chimed in, “I think we had best let God sort things out.”
While I disagree that killing is the preferred way to bring that about, I do believe that God is just and will not “sort” in an unjust manner.
I don’t see how to believe that and to believe also that unsaved souls are condemned to eternal torment in hell. But I’m not going to put you on the spot, here in public. We can talk about it when I make my way to Seattle, bimeby. (There are several folks here who don’t like me liking you. But you know that I do on the whole, despite our differences.)
I’ve stated my position on hell here more than once. I do not believe in eternal torment. I do not believe that “the lake of fire” was ever intended to be taken literally.
So there’s no conflict. IMO. 🙂
“We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!” – Donald Trump *
* Does not apply to hate against Muslim immigrants and minorities.
“Grab them by the turban” pales in comparison.
god love america and Donut Triumph!
It’s mutual. We’ve found a way to talk to each other without all the rancor and insult.
What about eternal souls? Where is Tom English’s soul going to go after death if there is no hell? His soul ain’t gonna go heaven along with Donut Triumph’s …right? Please say it ain’t so…
Not gonna derail Tom’s thread. Start your own OP.
Thank you! I can appreciate your concern about Tom’s well being of his OP but he brought up the subject of hell and eternal torment himself @ 17 just in case you missed that…
Then I’ll let Tom decide whether he wants to get into a discussion about eternal souls.
🙂
Should have put a little smiley face
It’s heartening to see that you have the courage to say so. I’ve known a few conservative Protestants who reject the notion that a merciful and just God has no alternative to salvation but damnation. Just a few. I don’t see it in the Bible. When I took courses in the Bible as an undergrad, I was amazed to learn how much of what I’d been taught came from the Bible wasn’t actually there. Scripture was very carefully parceled in Southern Baptist churches, even before the conservatives took over.
To this day, I enjoy reading the Bible. It’s not, for me, the “gotcha” thing it is for many atheists. It’s more a matter of figuring out what was going on around me when I was a kid, and figuring out what is going on with my family members now.
I suppose I was raised Southern Baptist. Certainly Baptist, and mostly in Texas at that. Either I was spared a lot of stuff or I didn’t pay the appropriate amount of attention. 🙂
For those who don’t know me, I should clarify: I do not identify as an atheist. I don’t even know what god means. I suspect that makes me ignostic. But I don’t care enough to find out for sure. Perhaps that makes me apatheistic. Yawn.
Prior to the Eighties, there were a few Southern Baptist congregations that were quite liberal. Louisville Baptist Theological Seminary was reputedly liberal. If I’d gone on to seminary, as I’d originally planned, that would have been the one.
You’ve perhaps seen me mention that I am, ever so ironically, a native of Waco. The site of my first home is now on the Baylor campus. I spoke with one of the regents of Baylor on my fiftieth birthday. She called in response to my letter protesting the removal of the Evolutionary Informatics Lab website from the Baylor server.
As for my sexist remark at the end of the OP, I was thrown out of Mississippi College (primarily) for writing in protest of gender discrimination at the school. I was saved by a bunch of students and faculty who protested my (and another student’s) expulsion. That was definitely a formative experience for me. I was conscious of “paying it forward” when I spoke up for Bob Marks at Baylor.
I may seem to have derailed my own thread. But the broader issue is what we regard as evil, and what we regard as acceptable differences. When we go too far in our response to the latter, we cannot respond appropriately to the former.
Why is this left wing propaganda on a harmless origin forum/blog??
I don’t pat attention to the news but this is a trivial event about some riot.
Everybody defines their opponents as evil and HATING.
Then everybody hates. Should you not hate evil people? Then its just an opinion of who is the bad guy.
The bad guys are from the ethnic left wing side. The , white supremists/nazis, are tiny , tiny , numbers of people. Who represent nobody. The ethnic side represents millions of people who demand America be divided on identity TO THEIR ADVANTAGE.
The democratic party is the party of these people.
These things prove they are anti-WASP, anti-White, anti-male, anti-American.
Its a result of hundreds of years of English people, purtan/Anglican, letting in non English people.
those qwho are evil are those who do evil. You know the tree by the fruit.
Its very, very, very, few people.
However a segregationist conclusions rules in the hearts of the ethnics.
They accuse and attack and hate the true Americans, yankee?southern etc, and this is a manisfestation.
No more immigration and those who immigrated can be taken to court on a charge of rebellion and if found guilty revoke their citizenship.
Yes Trump does a terrible job but he is from New York city and believes in segregation like all of them.
It comes down to the real American MAN failing to enforce the contracts with immigrants/women and so the real American is a victim and things get out of hand.
Take everyone to court.
Yes the Nazi flag should be illegal, if it is flown as they say, but all non American flags, except the confederate flag, should be illegal.
likewise here in Canada.
Remember a house divided against itself will not stand. The bible says that.
And the fruitcake, too.
There’s nothing funny about “Strange Fruits.”
A bit more of the personal stuff: I taught at Jackson State University (95 percent African-American undergrad population) for a couple years, and quickly grew to love my students. In the beginning, I felt like a sore white thumb sticking out, as I walked across campus. I’d see kids looking at me, and wouldn’t be able to read them. But they invariably broke into a smile, and said, “Hey, how are you!?” There was much more to it than manners. The students, for all the racism they had suffered in Mississippi, understood that they could not respond in kind. This isn’t a theory of mine. It’s something that was discussed from time to time.
The students at J-State were more like me than those I’d taught at other schools. Most of them, like me, came from the lower-middle class. Most of them, like me, were the first in their families to go to college. It was a big deal for them, and they really wanted to learn. Students like that are a joy to work with. I had them in my office for 15-20 hours a week. (I had a lot of other stuff to do, and it made for a very long week. It didn’t bother me in the least.)
An Indian (Asian) professor once said to me, “We’re all color-blind around here.” And I have to say, it was pretty close to the truth.
When I was working on a proposal for a huge multi-institutional project ($25 million line item in the federal budget), with another institution in the lead, one of the main concerns of the president, when I met with him, was that Jackson State might be included as the token minority institution. I had to convince him that we actually would be able to contribute as indicated in the proposal. He was adamant that we were not going to take a cut of the action, simply to enable the other schools to get their funding. It was not at all easy to get him to approve the proposal.
Now, I should explain that I didn’t really want to go to Jackson State University. My ex had said that she would be moving back to Mississippi with our son. I interviewed also at an elite liberal arts school in Jackson, Millsaps College, but didn’t get the job. So I took what I could get. That’s really how I felt about it. Jackson State is, to be sure, a fourth-tier institution. I had no idea I would love the students as I did. (I did not love the entrenched mid-level administration, but that’s another story.) Why did I leave? My ex decided to stay in Texas, and I moved back to be with my son.
Robert Byers, my sincere response to you is that you don’t know jack about the aspirations and attitudes of African Americans. I can’t say that my students and colleagues violated my expectations, because I truly did not know what to expect. Let’s say that I was amazed by their understanding that they had to be part of the solution to the problem of racism, and that they could not treat others as they’d been treated. And I’m telling you, almost all of them treated me, a middle-aged white man, fabulously well, with no apparent calculation. It’s hard to believe that such a culture would emerge in the midst of the worst racism in the country. But I saw it for myself. I had the privilege of seeing it for myself.
I didn’t vote for Trump, I’m an immigrant, I’m not white, I think Nazi’s and white supremacists are scary and evil.
But….BLM is cop-hating group and Antifa is actually a facist group that says they are anti-facist. Antifa are hypocrites:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/05/antifa-protesters-closest-thing-nazi-brownshirts-dinesh-dsouza
And since this is such a pro-Darwin blog:
and
Among the counter-protestors is the so-called Antifa group (a hypocritical title):
http://narrative-collapse.com/2017/03/31/armed-kurdish-antifa-group-declares-global-war-on-capitalism/
Below is a photo of some Antifa thugs that are also loosely affiliated with the Antifa group in Charlottesville that got attacked by a white supremacist:
Tom English,
You’re awesome dude
Black Lives Matter (BLM) was in Charlottesville, a college town. Here they are at Dartmouth University:
http://www.dartreview.com/eyes-wide-open-at-the-protest/
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8831
Got it, Nazis are bad but at least they aren’t liberals
“The International Freedom Battalion (Turkish: Enternasyonalist Özgürlük Taburu, Kurdish: Tabûra Azadî ya Înternasyonal, Arabic: تابور الحرية العالمي), commonly abbreviated as IFB or EÖT, is an armed group consisting of leftist foreign fighters fighting for the People’s Protection Units in the Syrian Civil War in support of the Rojava Revolution and against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.[3][4] The formation of the International Freedom Battalion was announced on 10 June 2015 in Serê Kaniyê (Ras al-Ayn).[5][6] Inspiration for the group came from the International Brigades of the Spanish Civil War. The political ideologies of the fighters include Marxism–Leninism, Hoxhaism, Maoism, and anarchism.”
Geez Sal, do you believe this stuff?
BLMers at Dartmouth:
How about Antifa:
http://www.jookos.com/2017/06/05/antifa-goons-assault-elderly-woman-laugh-yesterdays-free-speech-march-portland/
And Tom, this is not moral equivalency claim:
If Antifa and BLM commit less violence and bigotry than the KKK and Klansman and white nationalists, is still violence and bigotry, and thus it is from one of the many sides. Someone as brilliant as you should be able to see this wasn’t a claim of moral equivalency.
As a non-white, I wouldn’t feel comfortable (in fact I’d be outraged) seeing BLM guys in masks abusing young girls, pinning them to the wall and shouting insults at them just because she is white. The question is rather moot about immoral equivalence of a BLM vs. the KKK in that case, that’s just plain wrong.
From Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion
Left-wingers have Nazi totalitarian roots, but like Antifa, they won’t admit their totalitarian hypocrisy.
The neo-nazi’s and the Antifa are remind me of sects of the muslim terrorists fighting each other, or like Hitler fighting Stalin, or the Iran Iraq war.
stcordova,
But Sal, what about this gathering of the Community of United Nationalists for Trump Supporters (C.UN.T.S.) in Mississippi this week, they look pretty scary too.
Hey Phoodoo,
Here is a real left-winger feminist for you viewing pleasure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHKmYCCX4_w
So those polo wearing dumbasses who hate Jews, were liberals?
My guess Hilter and Stalin caren’t not one bit about ideology beyond its use to manipulate the population.
The alt right thought it was and that was the point
Actually I was thinking of “liberal” those who promote Hajib fashions for women like Ramsea Odeh:
http://nypost.com/2017/02/25/the-next-womens-march-is-co-organized-by-a-terrorist/
Yes I’m sure she’s a horrible person, with her being overweight and yelling. And whatever social and political viewpoints she considers herself aligned with must surely be bunk given her unattractiveness.
There are no fat and obnoxious right-wingers, we all know that.
You keep changing the subject, are the kkk neonazis ,Steve Bannon liberals?