Sometimes very active discussions about peripheral issues overwhelm a thread, so this is a permanent home for those conversations.
I’ve opened a new “Sandbox” thread as a post as the new “ignore commenter” plug-in only works on threads started as posts.
Anecdotally, it seems to have disappeared for me and anyone I know.
It depends what age group…You should look at the two papers I linked:
Why are we vaccinating children and WHO risk assessment;
I’m not going to repeat what it is clearly stated there.
Read the thread. We have seen it first had since our Biofire machines have been updated with the SARS CoV-2 software.
Here are some media reports:
After 30,000 tests, influenza virtually nowhere to be found in B.C.
https://www.vicnews.com/news/after-30000-tests-influenza-nowhere-to-be-found-in-b-c/
So, what is wrong with the advice given at the links below?
https://www.academie-medecine.fr/should-children-be-vaccinated-against-covid-19/?lang=en
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/covid-19-vaccines-for-kids/art-20513332
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid19-vaccine-what-parents-need-to-know
All I’m trying to say is this: what if the government (s) were tricked into believing there was an outbreak in Wuhan, for whatever reason, political, financial or other?
Maybe even some world leaders didn’t like who was in power in the US and used an opportunity to make sure he doesn’t get re-elected?
Whatever it was, many things don’t add up, beginning with the origins of SARS CoV-2. Many people considered experts in virology and microbiology etc. neither buy into the natural origins, nor the lab leak – the gain of function product.
I happen to be one of the few who believes the third explanation, but I’m not married to it… I waiting for evidence.
Even OmniCon is considered now another lab leak. Why?
Well, OK but with the social distancing, mask wearing, etc, transmission of respiratory disease such as colds and ‘flu should reduce. What’s your point?
What are you referring to as a “third explanation”?
DNA_Jock,
I see Steve Kirsch wears his lifetime ban from Twitter for publishing false information about Covid as a badge of honour.
WHO report:
Interim statement on COVID-19 vaccination for children and adolescents
covers a lot of bases.
Another issue that made me think something is out of sync was the support of the mass vaccination campaign by the majority of religions, especially the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church, including the Pope, totally abandoned any of the moral doctrine that they have left and ignored the facts that the vaccines were tested, or produced, by using fetal cell lines and insisted that accepting vaccines is morally acceptable due to the grave danger of the pandemic…
Some even wondered if the Catholic Church has investments in the vaccine makers…
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/12/21/948806643/vatican-oks-receiving-covid-19-vaccines-even-if-research-involved-fetal-tissue
I participate in the Dutch COVID19 surveillance effort and I can assure you that the sequences I am looking at are not influenza. Spotted the first omicron last week. Ct values of sequenced samples are all in the 15-30 range.
You are talking nonsense, J-Mac
Hang on with the Gish gallop. You are not addressing points raised. Corneel, for instance, can refute your claim about flu masquerading as Covid from professional experience.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zoRAJ9HzoY5ROD5AM65IK0TFidfc051C/view?usp=sharing
I’m sure this is just a coincidence that WHO published this and then few hours later, without an explanation, changed it:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zoRAJ9HzoY5ROD5AM65IK0TFidfc051C/view?usp=sharing
J-Mac,
That was WHO in June, 2021. The organisation has been very slow to respond to new data. Sadly, that has been fatal for some pregnant women. But there is no indication of any adverse effect of vaccination in the vast majority of young people now vaccinated. Hence the new advice from WHO.
J-Mac,
From your image:
“vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations…””
So, what is your explanation for the 100% disappearance of influenza all over the world after April 2020 even in countries without any restrictions?
Genetic sequencing?
You’ve lower the CT values Now???
So, if what you are saying is true, influenzas should be resurrected soon…
Have you detected any yet???
Influenza did not “100% disappear”. Incidence was just very low due to mask wearing and social distancing.
Even if we don’t assume a lab negligence accident, the collection of bats for research probably resulted in the release, considering that Wuhan was not a big natural site for bats.
But I’m pretty sure China bears responsibility for hiding the outbreak and for destroying evidence, including virus samples.
And lots of people are responsible for trying to halt investigation.
Strange , wonder who was in all those coffins?
Lot of maybes ,mights, coulda, possibly . Since the peaks of Covid deaths do not match flu season ,there must be lots of virtual folks in hospitals, secrets are hard to keep .Less moving parts is just design a virus .
Well, , we don’t need to when we read what you write next!
This is within the capability of China, in the sense of how things are set up to control information. This level of incompetence and damage limitation is one thing. The expertise to write a genome is a whole other level, science fantasy.
I don’t recall ever supporting anything like engineering a virus from scratch. I would not be surprised if some copy and paste is possible. Mostly the conspiracy theories I’ve heard involve something like selective breeding, I’m old and can’t recall the term at the moment.
The Chinese were credibly accused of accidentally re-releasing the 1957 flu in 1977, in botched vaccine research. Not the kind of credentials I’d look for doing pandemic level research.
But mostly I’m pissed that they destroyed evidence. Not a good look. Enron was hit with criminal charges for destroying emails.
My impression of the “created-in-a-lab” idea is that rogue scientists plotted to make a virus for… well, reasons. And they succeeded. I find the idea that a virus was found accidentally and maybe modified deliberately (highly sceptical on this) and there was a cover-up at least plausible.
But history shows secret govt plots are hugely incompetent and cover-ups are intended to hide embarrassment and unfavourable publicity.
Jan 6?
Evolution? If someone wanted a particular trait, select and breed. Anyway, no crime to be old. It’s a privilege we’ve made it this far.
Translation: I can’t explain it.
Translation: The bus outside my house takes me there.
Translation: The world is a difficult and complex place and all I have left since the wife took the kids are conspiracy theory’s.
Translation: The “contact” I have with them is being under their care.
Translation: I’m incapable of re-stating what is clearly restated there.
Translation: My wife left me years ago and took the kids.
Translation: I find it difficult to cope with change. When someone says something they should never change it and if they do that’s all the “evidence” I need for whatever conspiracy theory I believe at the moment.
Reminds me of how JoeG used to “argue” that fitness was irrelevant because at any point a meteor could strike the “fittest” member of a species at any time.
Watching phoodoo and J-Mac “argue” has been the best Xmas present of 2021!
Are you suggesting that mask wearing and social distancing no longer applies in the Netherlands? Last time I checked the riot police was about to go on strike as they were tired of anti-lockdown measures..
Did you read the actual paper? If you would like to have a discussion it would help…
The paper is not saying the coffins were empty:
“…Also, in the USA, nearly 600,000 deaths have been officially attributed to COVID-19. Almost 5,000 deaths following inoculation have been reported to VAERS by late May 2021..”
How many people do you think died per day in the US before the pandemic?
Do you have a better explanation for the phenomenon?
Are you trying to say covid19 waves are not seasonal? You’d be the first person who would make such a claim…
Really?
This statement just confirms my previous suspicions that you don’t know what you are talking about… I’m a skeptic but this is just pure nonsense…
I gotta tell ya; if you believe it is easier to design a virus, you not only have never been in a lab, or near it, you’ve never even bothered to educate yourself about what goes on in there…
If you think you are right, just point me in the direction of how to design a virus, and I’d be more than happy to split the Nobel Prize with you…
Just for the sake of others who read it:
This fact has been known since the beginning of the rumors that SARS CoV-2 has been a product of lab manipulation, or gain of function, because of the origins of the polybasic furin cleavage site in the spike protein that most evolutionary biologists agree it just could not have evolved.
Here is the summary of another evolutionary mystery:
“All these lines of evidence and reasoning show that the acquisition of the polybasic furin cleavage site by SARS-CoV-2 is a “missing link” in our understanding of its evolutionary history, that can only be addressed through the discovery of new viruses.”
Another evolutionary mystery is the origins of the “new variant” called Omicron also referred to by some as OmniCon, for obvious reasons, because it’s origins is another evolutionary mystery and therefore some are forced to believe its origins must have been another lab leak…
BTW: If you are bored, do some reading.
“A person who won’t read has no advantage over one who can’t read.” – Mark Twain
In this case the attached publication was replaced (you can’t find it on WHO site) within a couple hours of publishing. I guess “new data” came in and this time WHO was extremely fast to respond…
I was one of those who managed to download it before it was changed very quickly.
It must be another of those many coincidences that just fuel the conspiracy theories…
I thought you didn’t celebrate X-mas?
Are you a closet red dress Fan???
Well, this is the best present of 2021… lol
Translation: I don’t understand what facts are.
Translation: I don’t understand evolution in any way whatsoever.
Translation: I don’t understand how science works either.
Translation: I don’t understand how the internet works as well.
Translation: I don’t have any actual evidence for the conspiracy theory I’ve only alluded to in any case.
Translation: ?????????????
I’d buy a reduction in influenza cases… That is not it. It just vanished in March/April 2020 all over the world. It’s not like we were not testing for it…
My point is simple: how do you make a respiratory disease disappear 100%, including countries and states where no such measures, like masking and social distancing, exist?
Have you ever been to a busy hospital during the pandemic?
At the hospitals I’m affiliated with they implemented social distancing on the elevators and 4-6 people capacity depending on the elevator. Unfortunately many visitors don’t read or look at the signs. Some just can’t read English, and some are old and can’t keep their mask on to cover the nose, or because they can’t breathe. And yet, not one case of influenza has been detected in 3 major hospitals in Toronto and 2 in Peel Region, with the total bed capacity of 10.000 plus.
It must be a modern science miracle just like the evolutionary origins of the polybasic furin cleavage site acquired by SARS-CoV-2…
Translation: I read it on Facebook.
Translation: It’s where I pick up my medication. I just like to pretend.
Translation: I don’t understand how big the world is as I think what happens in 3 hospitals in a rich country can be extrapolated to the entire world.
Translation: I have a conspiracy I want to promote but I’m not quite brave enough to just state what it is.
Translation: I don’t want to actually read or learn from people involved who know facts I don’t, such as Corneel. I know what I know and no facts will ever change that!
Flu disappeared 100 percent, and it’s showing up again? Spontaneous generation.
Not to change the subject, but I have a real question, seeking information.
Are masks more effective against flu than against covid?
Sorry if this has already been answered.
Gee, I wonder if he was vaccinated..
https://www.yahoo.com/news/self-proclaimed-plague-spreader-dies-114105097.html
It ain’t the Chinese running around doing this bullshit.
I think the main difference between influenza transmission and COVID transmission is that the traditional “if you feel sick, stay home” is remarkably effective at reducing flu, but almost useless against COVID.
In the middle of a respiratory pandemic, people (and their employers…) were much more positive about staying home when the sniffles hit. That alone is enough to dramatically reduce the flu season. Also, despite what J-Mac might think, there was plenty of distancing going on, even in places without a mask mandate (I have family in Florida).
Finally, his lone datapoint is people who were tested in a hospital. That’s hilarious!
“Humm, the nurse I spoke to on the phone reckons I have the flu. I’m gonna get me down to the hospital where people are dying of COVID to get tested.” said no-one ever.
Since I have to venture out to buy groceries, I’ve noticed an almost complete absence of people coughing and sneezing in public.
Once, I wound up in the laundry detergent aisle and had a reaction to all the fumes. Rather than cough or sneeze in public, I ran out of the store. The taboo is great.
Now, after everyone in the family is triple vaxxed, we are getting colds.
If he happened to have influenza related complications, like pneumonia, just like tens of thousands of Italians in the previous seasons have had, we can’t even investigate it because influenza officially “vanished” in Italy in March/April 2020.
“Investigating the impact of influenza on excess mortality in all ages in Italy during recent seasons (2013/14–2016/17 seasons)
Highlights
In the winter seasons from 2013/14 to 2016/17, an estimated average of 5,290,000 ILI cases occurred in Italy, corresponding to an incidence of 9%.
More than 68,000 deaths attributable to flu epidemics were estimated in the study period.
Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly.
We estimated excess deaths of 7,027, 20,259, 15,801 and 24,981 attributable to influenza epidemics in the 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17, respectively, using the Goldstein index. The average annual mortality excess rate per 100,000 ranged from 11.6 to 41.2 with most of the influenza-associated deaths per year registered among the elderly. However children less than 5 years old also reported a relevant influenza attributable excess death rate in the 2014/15 and 2016/17 seasons (1.05/100,000 and 1.54/100,000 respectively).
Miracles like that in Italy, because it is Christian nation, happen all the time… I have no other arguments so I have to buy it…
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285
Get tested! It may very well be OminCon…
That it didn’t happen. The masks and distancing reduced flu quite a bit, but not 100%. I’ve got the flu a few weeks ago, tested for covid just in case, it wasn’t covid. I live within the GTA.
I know… You are must be one of the very few who have tested positive within the last few weeks. WHO will update their stats in the new year…
Entropy,
Even Trudeau had a “prophetic vision” a month ago that the flu was going to be resurrected, so he got himself a flu shot…
I won a bet thanks to him lol
vs
It’s like a case of multiple personalities. Except none of them actually add up to a whole one.
Better than a shadowy cabal did something for some reason? High bar. Let me use the US . https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm Has a nice timeline of the start of the phenomenon from “ Data from approximately 300 U.S. clinical laboratories located throughout all 50 states, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the District of Columbia that participate in virologic surveillance for influenza through either the U.S. WHO Collaborating Laboratories System or the National Respiratory and Enteric Virus Surveillance System* were used for this analysis. Clinical laboratories primarily test respiratory specimens for diagnostic purposes, and data from these laboratories provide useful information on the timing and intensity of influenza activity.”
If I understand it correctly , labs report number of specimens and positivity percentage for influenza. Positivity peaked in the second week of February at 30% ,fell to 14% the week ,March 1, Trump declared a National Emergency. Had an 87% drop in positivity middle of March to first week in April . Second week in April it dropped below 1% . To me a better explanation ,at least for the start of the phenomenon, is the extreme social distancing at to onset of the pandemic . If the onset of the case of the missing flu phenomenon does not require conjuring up a shadowy cabal , why invoke deus ex machina?
Sinister conspiracies are easier to understand then actual science. J-Mac starts from the idea of there being a conspiracy, because of course there is, and “interprets” all data in that light.
Even a lack of data is support for the conspiracy. Even contradictory statements support the conspiracy like the one above where J-Mac proclaims the flu is 100% gone and yet made a bet that it would return.
Conspiracies can only persist when there is a lack of critical thinking plus paranoia Hence J-Mac.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/pops.12681
“Results reveal that conservatives in the United States were not only more likely than liberals to endorse specific conspiracy theories, but they were also more likely to espouse conspiratorial worldviews in general (r = .27, 95% CI: .24, .30). Importantly, extreme conservatives were significantly more likely to engage in conspiratorial thinking than extreme liberals (Hedges’ g = .77, SE = .07, p < .001). The relationship between ideology and conspiratorial thinking was mediated by a strong distrust of officialdom and paranoid ideation, both of which were higher among conservatives, consistent with Hofstadter's account of the paranoid style in American politics. "
Seems to sum up J-Mac alright.
In US first wave of Covid deaths peaked on around April 21 2020, still had a seven day average of around 800 deaths at beginning of summer, never dropped below 7 day average of 500 deaths all summer , in Aug 1 again peaked again with 7 day average 1200. So yes ,saying Covid waves do not follow the traditional influenza waves . If the cabal is passing off influenza deaths as Covid , it is tough in beginning of August. The next year delta variant appeared in August ,Covid was soon was averaging 1,300 deaths on August 31. End of August is not flu season in Northern Hemisphere