Sandbox (4)

Sometimes very active discussions about peripheral issues overwhelm a thread, so this is a permanent home for those conversations.

I’ve opened a new “Sandbox” thread as a post as the new “ignore commenter” plug-in only works on threads started as posts.

4,119 thoughts on “Sandbox (4)

  1. phoodoo:
    dazz,

    A quick review show countries like Singapore, Sweden, and Japan have better infant mortality rates than the US.Atrributing that to lower vaccine rate seems like quite a stretch.

    More bad science.

    I know that. What I need is access to the actual scientific peer review if available. It seems inconceivable that such a piece of shit would go past the peer review process unnoticed

  2. phoodoo: If all mutations do is destroy function, you can not expect to “build” a new functional object.

    I think you make a valid argument here. Therefore, given what we already know about the delta variant, it is safe to say that your premise (and Behe’s claim) is proven false. Thank you.

    This is the fundamental error of Darwinian evolution thinking. Its the same as the sickle cell anemia argument. Sickle cell anemia is benificial if you are living in a place with high malaria present, but it is also detroying the “fitness” (I mean fitness in the real sense, not in the silly biology reverse speak sense) of the organism. An analogy I have used before is, if you are a man born with no legs, you may have a fitness advantage…

    yes, you have made this analogy before, and other similar ones. Because you make these hilarious analogies, I am quite confident that you do not even understand what the evolutionary “sickle cell argument” is. Let’s find out!
    Roughly what percentage of people with the sickle cell gene actually have sickle cell anemia?

  3. Not sure what about the delta variant makes you think it implies a gaining of function, but since you agree with no point, if Omicron turns out to be dud , I will look forward to your conceding evolution theory is a fraud.

  4. DNA_Jock: I am quite confident that you do not even understand what the evolutionary “sickle cell argument” is. Let’s find out!
    Roughly what percentage of people with the sickle cell gene actually have sickle cell anemia?

    Not everyone who gets the sickle cell gene will get the disease, that’s the savior of your theory! Holy shit math boy, you think it’s me who doesn’t get it??!

  5. phoodoo: …if Omicron turns out to be dud…

    And how will we know that, I wonder. When the relative fitness of the new strain in infectivity and virulence become clearer as it spreads.

  6. dazz: It seems inconceivable that such a piece of shit would go past the peer review process unnoticed

    Love the corrigendum: “Oopsie, we forgot to mention one tiny conflict of interest: we’re antivaxxers.”

  7. phoodoo: Not everyone who gets the sickle cell gene will get the disease, that’s the savior of your theory! Holy shit math boy, you think it’s me who doesn’t get it??!

    Hint: humans are diploid, having two copies of every gene.

  8. Corneel: Hint: humans are diploid, having two copies of every gene.

    Yes we know. And so?

    You are only halfway to a disease that will shorten your life? Hooray!

    Legs are bad in some niches.

  9. Re sickle cell, you can lead a horse to water…

    Also,

    phoodoo: Not sure what about the delta variant makes you think it implies a gaining of function, but since you agree with no point, if Omicron turns out to be dud , I will look forward to your conceding evolution theory is a fraud.

    Well, delta has twice the infectivity of its parent strain, and we even understand how it has a gain of function. Secondly, I agreed that your argument was valid: your premise was “If all mutations do is destroy function”… you are going to have to prove that that is universally true before there’ll be any concessions. Good luck with that.

  10. Corneel: Love the corrigendum: “Oopsie, we forgot to mention one tiny conflict of interest: we’re antivaxxers.”

    Yeah, not to mention that the “study” was funded by the National Vaccine Information Center, an anti-vaxx think tank.

  11. Just a place marker. As of five minutes ago, there are no reported deaths from the omicron variant. Not many cases, but enough to suggest it isn’t more lethal.

    Could be interesting if it turns out to be both highly infectious and relatively mild.

    Part of being mild is a property of the population. Having previous experience, either through vaccination or from infection and recovery.

  12. petrushka: Could be interesting if it turns out to be both highly infectious and relatively mild.

    That is what I would expect, high infectivity and low lethality both ensure the virus’s success.

  13. phoodoo:
    Not sure what about the delta variant makes you think it implies a gaining of function,

    So, being more contagious, and more infectious, are not gains in function?

    phoodoo:
    if Omicron turns out to be dud , I will look forward to your conceding evolution theory is a fraud.

    Why? The theory of evolution does not hold that all variants are gain of function variants. I suspect you have a weird concept of evolutionary theory. Maybe you don’t understand the difference between genetic drift and selection swipes. Maybe you don’t understand the independence between the events of mutation and selection among variants. Maybe you don’t understand what the word “selection” stands for in evolutionary theory, maybe you don’t understand anything at all about evolution. Maybe you’d rather not understand it because all you care about is venting your anger at nonbelievers because their disbelief offends you to no end. Maybe you’re just too stupid …

  14. Alan Fox: That is what I would expect, high infectivity and low lethality both ensure the virus’s success.

    Hope the virus got the memo.

  15. I have attempted to volunteer in Moderna influenza vaccine study, but I got turned down as there have been no cases of flu in Canada since April 2020. Actually, there have been no influenza cases in 99.99 % of the world since the novel virus emerged… a modern (a) miracle of evolutionary science….

  16. J-Mac: Actually, there have been no influenza cases in 99.99 % of the world since the novel virus emerged… a modern (a) miracle of evolutionary science….

    It may have more to do with the effectiveness of masks.

  17. Neil Rickert: It may have more to do with the effectiveness of masks.

    petrushka:
    Or possibly the social distancing and closed schools.

    Or both. Plus people are not so tolerant of sniffles these days. We socialize now but I wouldn’t share space with anyone showing symptoms of a respiratory infection.

    And no kissing!

  18. Its looking more and more like Omicron is going to be like a natural vaccine- very little symptons but wide spreading immunity.

    I wonder why the evolutionists didn’t predict this, but I did?

    Evolution breaks things. Just like they broke the original virus to make a vaccine.

  19. phoodoo:
    Its looking more and more like Omicron is going to be like a natural vaccine- very little symptons but wide spreading immunity.

    I wonder why the evolutionists didn’t predict this, but I did?

    Evolution breaks things.Just like they broke the original virus to make a vaccine.

    Look back at the threads on this. There’s general agreement that successful microbes do not cause death of their host, and diseases become milder.

    I’m of the opinion that much of the adaptation is done by the host populations. In the case of covid, populations are becoming experienced, people’s immune systems are learning to deal with covid without killing the patient.

    Countries that have endemic coronaviruses are experiencing fewer deaths. It’s not crossover immunity, just crossover experience. The immune system doesn’t panic.

  20. Seven CoVs have been associated with human disease, mostly amounting to mild respiratory illness, perhaps underlying 15–30% of global common colds. Previous CoV outbreaks have included severe respiratory syndrome (SARS) caused by SARS-CoV, and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) caused by MERS-CoV. Significantly, SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV, and SARS-CoV-2 share significant sequence homology and antigenic epitopes capable of inducing an adaptive immune response.2 All CoVs consist of transmembrane trimeric spike (S) glycoproteins, membrane (M) glycoproteins, and transmembrane envelope (E) proteins. The RNA of CoV is bound to nucleocapsid (N) proteins resembling string-on-beads. Due to high levels of homology between these proteins in SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV, and SARS-CoV-2, perhaps prior exposure to one virus could confer partial immunity to another. Thus, perhaps an ‘adaptive immune response’ due to repeated/increased CoV exposure in Asian/Middle Eastern populations underlies low morbidity seen in those regions.2

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-021-00490-x

  21. Neil Rickert: It may have more to do with the effectiveness of masks.

    Where? In Sweden? Africa? Or Florida and other unmasked states and counties that can’t afford it?

  22. petrushka:
    Or possibly the social distancing and closed schools.

    100%? It must be a modern era religious miracle…nothing to do with science… whatever that means today…

  23. Alan Fox:
    Or both. Plus people are not so tolerant of sniffles these days. We socialize now but I wouldn’t share space with anyone showing symptoms of a respiratory infection.

    And no kissing!

    Do you really live in France??? No kissing??? You must be looking like an English muffin from a mile… lol

  24. phoodoo: 发

    OmniCon is 99.99 % related to the original SARS Cov2, than anything else, like D. Trump, as per very accurate sequencing… You have to trust the science…

  25. J-Mac,

    Yup, I used to kiss everyone, women, children, men. That has stopped except among close family and friends. Only today I bumped into my neighbour Phillipe who prior to Covid I would have bussed on both cheeks but today we just bumped fists.

  26. phoodoo:
    Its looking more and more like Omicron is going to be like a natural vaccine- very little symptons but wide spreading immunity.

    I wonder why the evolutionists didn’t predict this, but I did?

    Evolution breaks things.Just like they broke the original virus to make a vaccine.

    China reported an extremely mild flu seasons again…. 2 year in the row.. It must be the??? Science has an answer.. coming up… soon….

  27. Canada now strongly recommends follow up “vaccines” after 3 months of whatever shots, or myocarditis, or pericarditis, or both, you may have had after the previous shots…

  28. Alan Fox:
    J-Mac,

    Yup, I used to kiss everyone, women, children, men. That has stopped except among close family and friends. Only today I bumped into my neighbour Phillipe who prior to Covid I would have bussed on both cheeks but today we just bumped fists.

    I have seen the English first hand in the Canary Islands. They only kiss when their football team wins… Some things you can’t change within one or two generations…

  29. Alan Fox:
    J-Mac,

    Yup, I used to kiss everyone, women, children, men. That has stopped except among close family and friends. Only today I bumped into my neighbour Phillipe who prior to Covid I would have bussed on both cheeks but today we just bumped fists.

    How many cases of influenza do you have in the village? Let me guess: ZERO but rising??? lol

  30. phoodoo:
    Its looking more and more like Omicron is going to be like a natural vaccine- very little symptons but wide spreading immunity.

    I wonder why the evolutionists didn’t predict this, but I did?

    Evolution breaks things.Just like they broke the original virus to make a vaccine.

    Here is the evolutionary tree of the “new variant” OmniCon”:
    https://www.science.org/content/article/where-did-weird-omicron-come

    The evidence like that has gotta be true… 😉

  31. phoodoo: Its looking more and more like Omicron is going to be like a natural vaccine- very little symptons but wide spreading immunity.

    I wonder why the evolutionists didn’t predict this, but I did?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/delta-omicron-pfizer-biontech-imperial-college-london-b1978106.html

    The study also found no evidence of Omicron having lower severity than Delta, but data on hospital admission was very low at the time of the study.

    It appears your prediction has not been accurate as yet.

    phoodoo: Evolution breaks things. Just like they broke the original virus to make a vaccine.

    Then where did the “original virus” come from in the first place? What did evolution break?

  32. This is the Covid-19 bed status report for the 3 major hospitals in Toronto, Canada, as of Dec 17, 2021, which have close to 2000 beds, including 120 plus ICU beds that have been empty for a very long time. As you can see, the OmniCon scare in real life, doesn’t really match the government’s. I’m sure this is just a coincidence, and NOT some kind of a wacky conspiracy theory…

  33. J-Mac,

    I dunno, Canada’s daily infection rate is showing a huge spike. Serious illness rates may follow that the increase in a couple of weeks.

  34. J-Mac: I’m sure this is just a coincidence, and NOT some kind of a wacky conspiracy theory…

    Out of interest, what is it you think that they are trying to achieve with all this if it’s actually faked?

  35. OMagain: Out of interest, what is it you think that they are trying to achieve with all this if it’s actually faked?

    It’s a good question.

    If what I suspect is the underlying agenda, which clearly has nothing to do with “a novel virus”, or a variant, we can expect more fear-mongering, vaccine passports, the never-ending booster mandates and the “resurrection of influenza”. Then, the influenza vaccination requirements, and possibly mandates could also follow.

    The fundamental human rights are being eroded and will continue to be until some powerful groups, with many supporters, say no more.

    BTW: I’m not denying that people are dying of idiopathic pneumonias. They always have. We’ve just not seen any pandemic-like increase over the last 24 months…

  36. J-Mac,

    I think all it would take for you is to know enough people who had it, and to also see the situation firsthand. Then you wouldn’t think its all bullshit and a conspiracy.

    You just don’t know enough people is my conclusion.

  37. J-Mac: It’s a good question.

    If what I suspect is the underlying agenda, which clearly has nothing to do with “a novel virus”, or a variant,

    You are among friends, what is this secret underlying agenda ?

    we can expect more fear-mongering, vaccine passports, the never-ending booster mandates and the “resurrection of influenza”. Then, the influenza vaccination requirements, and possibly mandates could also follow.

    It is only fear mongering if the danger is not real, the rest just seems like prudent measures if we are really facing a virus which has killed millions worldwide and is not through yet. So how ,who ,and why is this agenda being ordered?

    The fundamental human rights are being eroded and will continue to be until some powerful groups, with many supporters, say no more.

    In the US the main group of folks which agrees with you about the virus have no problem restricting and eroding the rights of the folks they do not agree with them. How does that work with your theory?

    BTW: I’m not denying that people are dying of idiopathic pneumonias. They always have. We’ve just not seen any pandemic-like increase over the last 24 months…

    In US life expectancy life expectancy for the whole population in 2020 dropped 1.8 years from 2019. And remember the virus hit in March . Even if cause of death has been miscategorized as Covid , that is a lot of excess deaths to drop the life expectancy that much.

  38. J-Mac: we can expect more fear-mongering, vaccine passports

    Do you kids go to school? Did you go to school? Then you already had a vaccine passport. How many years has that been?

  39. phoodoo:
    J-Mac,

    I think all it would take for you is to know enough people who had it, and to also see the situation firsthand.Then you wouldn’t think its all bullshit and a conspiracy.

    You just don’t know enough people is my conclusion.

    Several of my friends and work colleagues have had it – a positive RT- PCR test with symptoms (mostly health care workers). None of them required hospitalization, or oxygen. My friend’s father died with a positive PCR test. He was 87 and fully vaccinated.

    I have seen the situation unfold right in front of my eyes since November 2019. Influenza patients that used to overwhelm our ERs, ICUs, ACUs and medical wards, like surgery, and the corridors on stretchers and even the hospital gym in the previous years, vanished and were replaced with way less covid-19 patients. I like coincidences, and even miracles, but this is not my favourite one…The official explanation for this phenomenon doesn’t fit any logic.
    Maybe one day more details will show the true picture.

    In my last response to OMagain I clearly stated that I do not deny people getting hospitalized and dying with and from upper respiratory infections and pneumonias… But I have a hard time accepting that seasonal influenza, which apparently killed 80 000 people in the US in the 2017-18 winter, simply vanished because of masking and social distancing…

    You saw the stats for 3 major hospitals in Toronto with over 2000 beds as of Dec 17 2021. The government of Ontario and health experts are introducing restrictions because patients are supposedly overwhelming hospitals due to Omicron, and yet we can’t seem to find those patients anywhere. My colleagues at Trillium Health Partners (2 large hospitals ) think of the floodgates of patients opened up in Toronto, we think it’s in Peel Region…

    BTW: For those who don’t think influenza can have serious side-effects: Few years back our friend’s daughter got pneumonia due to influenza that damaged her heart. The only life saving solution was a heart transplant. She was 13 when she passed away…

  40. phoodoo: Do you kids go to school?Did you go to school?Then you already had a vaccine passport.How many years has that been?

    My kids go to school. They are unvaccinated. You seem to be misinformed..

  41. J-Mac: My kids go to school. They are unvaccinated. You seem to be misinformed..

    No polio vaccine, really? No chickenpox? No diptheria? No tetanus?

    I am skeptikal.

  42. velikovskys: You are among friends, what is this secret underlying agenda ?

    I’m not the one pushing the “agenda”… whatever that is, if any at all. I’m trying to figure out what it could be; what could explain the illogical behaviours by most governments. Are they being misled? If yes, by whom and why? If I’m wrong, why don’t the numbers add up?

    You should perhaps read my comments again… There is a hint of what I think it could be.I don’t have a clear picture yet…

    BTW: Do you know what the second strongest risk factors for death with covid-19 were after obesity being #1 according to the CDC?

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