Purpose and Desire

Purpose and Desire: What Makes Something “Alive” and Why Modern Darwinism Has Failed to Explain It is the new book by physiologist J. Scott Turner, author of The Tinkerer’s Accomplice: How Design Emerges from Life Itself.

The book may make some “skeptics” uncomfortable, but maybe they should read it anyways.

From the book:

I have come to believe that there is something presently wrong with how we scientists think about life, its existence, its origins, and its evolution.

Without a coherent theory of life, whatever we think about life doesn’t hold water. This applies to the major contribution we claim that the modern science of life offers to the popular culture: Darwinism.

… there sits at the heart of modern Darwinism an unresolved tautology that undermines its validity.

… do we have a coherent theory of evolution? The firmly settled answer to this question is supposed to be “yes” …

I intend to argue in this book that the answer to my question might actually be “no.”

Darwinism is an idea of intoxicating beauty, and yet there has been for many years a muddle at the heart of it, at least in its modern form.

… what it cannot explain is coming into stark relief, making it impossible any longer to ignore the muddle.

The problem for modern Darwinism is, I argue, that we lack a coherent theory of the core Darwinian concept of adaptation.

This type of reasoning is known formally as a tautology…

For Darwinism to make sense (and I want deeply for it to make sense), the tautology somehow needs to be resolved.

… the obstacle to resolving the tautology is not that we know too little — far from it — but that we aren’t thinking properly about what we do know. In short, the obstacle is largely philosophical, and the stumbling block is the frank purposefulness that is inherent in the phenomenon of adaptation.

… the uncomfortable question is this: what if phenomena like intentionality, purpose, and design are not illusions, but are quite real — are in fact the central attributes of life? How can we have a coherent theory of life that tries to shunt these phenomena to the side? And if we don’t have a coherent theory of life, how can we have a coherent theory of evolution?

– Turner, J. Scott. Purpose and Desire: What Makes Something “Alive” and Why Modern Darwinism Has Failed to Explain It. HarperCollins. 2017.

Biology, we have a problem. He wants Darwinism to make sense, but the book just doesn’t start out well for the Darwin disciples. Maybe someone else here will actually read it and explain how misguided this poor author is. He’s a Christian. Maybe he’s just lying for Jesus.

Another nail in the coffin.

430 thoughts on “Purpose and Desire

  1. colewd: What about Aquinas 5 way arguments?

    If you look carefully at how Aquinas phrases his arguments, you’ll notice a gap between what he has established by argument and its relation to religious belief. He’ll establish that there must be a necessary being, but then says, ‘and this everyone agrees to call God’. He does not logically demonstrate that the necessary being must be God. He doesn’t even give us reasons for thinking that the necessary being might be God. He just says that everyone agrees that it is.

    I agree we cannot know that God exists but can we access that creation is the most logical possibility based on the evidence?

    I don’t think there are any arguments that could allow us to assign greater likelihood (or any other epistemic virtues) to God or to the multiverse.

  2. I always end up shaking my head at Mung. Accepts NS, accepts drift, common descent up to a point, all the nuts and bolts, then says something along the lines of ‘evolution is silly’ or ‘it’s incoherent’.

  3. Allan Miller,

    You read shelves and shelves of books on something that is basically incoherent?

    The idea that there are shelves of books on an incoherent subject is fascinating. Yet we stumble trying to define the most basic of the subjects terms.

  4. Mung: No, that’s not true. If you’re an example of liberal modernity there’s something other than Darwinism at work.

    No, I’m an example of socialist postmodernity!

  5. keiths: t assumes that evolutionary theory supports atheism, which is actually true. One less gap for God to burrow into.

    In that sense all of science supports atheism. But we know that all science does not support atheism. So you can’t be correct.

  6. Allan Miller: You’re too kind. I do experience a bit of a biting-on-tinfoil sensation with that word, though. I’d say my arguments are ‘in Darwinist terms’ to a US-based Creationist, because the word is their short hand for atheist-materialist-evolution-accepter. If you chop off the first two words, everyone (who isn’t a moron) is a Darwinist at least up to a point.

    What? You mean like IDists? So your beliefs don’t require the whole unguided part then huh Allan?

    There is a good opportunity for a book about the new path for the New Atheist. Since Darwinism is getting a little too messy to hang onto, they need something else.

    I mean just look at all the materialist here scavenging the Earth trying to articulate this whole, “Well, some parts of Darwin still might be useful in theory, but some parts are a Third way, and its not exactly Darwinist in its mechanisms, and sure there is some teleology involved, and you see physical laws might explain the existence of some of the mechanism once we delve deeper, and systems are different from the individual parts don’t you see, let’s not argument of what does what and how, the modern synthesis has plenty of room for expansion without explosion…who cares how true Darwinism is anyway, is it useful is the question…Empirically speaking, who is to say what lies at the core…Vaisheshika darsana says that perception is everything, you know…”

    The movement needs a name though. Too bad Hitchens isn’t still around. Coyne is such a bore, and Dawkins is a little too busy right now explaining how he is not a racist and all. What’s Krauss up to?

  7. Allan Miller: You think I’m a Darwinist, I’m a Darwinist. You think I’m made of cheese, I’m made of cheese.

    Kicking his own children out of his house and refusing to let them have their cat is exactly what we would expect from a Darwinist.

  8. colewd,

    The idea that there are shelves of books on an incoherent subject is fascinating. Yet we stumble trying to define the most basic of the subjects terms.

    And yet, we don’t. Is there really much confusion in defining selection, drift, recombination, migration, fixation &c? Really? Playing with definitions appears to be pretty much all you guys have got, hence you flog that nag till she can be rode no more.

  9. colewd: I think atheism is based on the circular reasoning that the material world is all that exists and God is too big a concept.

    I already had you pegged as a Truth Project kind of guy. Here’s a little wooden box for you to use as an indoctrination aid. Have you seen Dr. (always emphasize doctor, even if the doctorate is in management) Del Tackett’s new YEC documentary, Is Genesis History? I’ve managed to stomach only the first 30 minutes (on Netflix). The highlight was Paul Nelson noting that YEC’s difference from the mainstream is not their view of science, but instead their view of history.

  10. colewd: Yet we stumble trying to define the most basic of the subjects terms.

    fitness
    species
    adaptation
    homology

    The list goes on and on

    And more to the point, the book featured by the OP makes this same case.

  11. Kantian Naturalist: No, I’m an example of socialist postmodernity

    That’s it, The Socialist Postmodernist Third Way of Guidance without Guidance! The Universal Theory of Un-Universalism in a Godless World.

    Ok, well, there is no hurry I guess. There are still a lot of Darwinists like Rumraket who still don’t get it yet.

  12. phoodoo,

    So your beliefs don’t require the whole unguided part then huh Allan?

    Sigh. No. My beliefs, or otherwise, in God have nothing to do with my biological interests. As I have told you I don’t know how many times.

    Here’s a heads-up: I didn’t read past the line I quoted. Because a phoodoo-post typically consists of getting something wrong, and then riffing about it increasingly excitably for 10 minutes or so. So, if you have a point to get across, and you want it read, make it quick.

  13. Mung,

    Kicking his own children out of his house and refusing to let them have their cat is exactly what we would expect from a Darwinist.

    At least I didn’t plant a Tree, tell them not to eat the fruit, and visit punishment on all future generations when they did.

  14. Kantian Naturalist,

    If you look carefully at how Aquinas phrases his arguments, you’ll notice a gap between what he has established by argument and its relation to religious belief. He’ll establish that there must be a necessary being, but then says, ‘and this everyone agrees to call God’. He does not logically demonstrate that the necessary being must be God. He doesn’t even give us reasons for thinking that the necessary being might be God. He just says that everyone agrees that it is.

    He certainly does not prove God but makes a logical argument for an uncaused cause of creation.

    Are you positioning the multiverse as the alternative to intentional creation?

  15. Mung,

    fitness
    species
    adaptation
    homology

    The list goes on and on

    Yeah, and you’re hopelessly confused by this most difficult of subjects, aren’t you Mung? Poor fella.

  16. Allan Miller: I always end up shaking my head at Mung. Accepts NS, accepts drift, common descent up to a point, all the nuts and bolts, then says something along the lines of ‘evolution is silly’ or ‘it’s incoherent’.

    Now you know why I speak of evolutionary theories.

    The question is, what dose it mean for a theory to be coherent. What must be true of that theory?

  17. Allan Miller: Accepts NS, accepts drift, common descent up to a point, all the nuts and bolts, then says something along the lines of ‘evolution is silly’ or ‘it’s incoherent’.

    Well, that’s NOT QUITE all the nuts and bolts now is it Allan?

    There’s this little part about some random mutations causing all the novelty in the world you might want to take a look at. I know, I know, its one of those little messy remnants of Darwinism pestering everyone and you all would love to be able to finally throw it overboard already, but yet…

    Anyway, the new book should be out pretty soon once Krauss or Sam Harris or Degrasse-Tyson can find the time.

  18. Tom English,

    Have you seen Dr. (always emphasize doctor, even if the doctorate is in management) Del Tackett’s new YEC documentary, Is Genesis History?

    I have not seen it yet. I don’t currently find the YEC arguments convincing. Do you think they make a credible argument in this movie?

  19. Mung,

    Now you know why I speak of evolutionary theories.

    No, I really don’t. Or, I don’t know why the singular-vs-plural matters. Lamarckism is a theory of evolution. ID is, in some flavours. But there does not seem to be a multiplicity of theories of evolution in modern biology. You seem to crow every time someone talks of something like transposition, as if that is a ‘theory of evolution’. Or common descent, as if that is another.

    The question is, what dose it mean for a theory to be coherent. What must be true of that theory?

    What is not true of modern evolutionary theory? Which of – say – mutation, selection, drift, recombination, fixation, migration or common descent is untrue or incoherent?

  20. Kantian Naturalist: Evolutionary theory explains much about past and present biodiversity, sure. Ir’s conceivable that some evidence could overturn some or even all of it, but at present I have no more reasons to reject evolutionary theory than I do any other currently accepted scientific theories.

    I’m afraid that this paragraph doesn’t make any sense to me.

    No, I don’t. In fact I hold a particularly strong version of agnosticism, according to which it is not even logically possible for human beings (or any finite mind) to know that God does or does not exist.

    The short version of this argument is as follows: all evidence that is epistemically significant for us requires measurement. But we only know how to use the concept of measurement with regard to spatio-temporal intervals. Since God is (by definition) transcendent with regard to the entire space-time continuum, we cannot conceive of what it would be to take any measurements of Him/Her/It.If conceivability entails logical possibility (which is itself a contentious claim), then inconceivability entails logical impossibility. Hence it is logically impossible for us to take any measurements that would confirm the existence or non-existence of a transcendent being. For that reason, then it is logically impossible for us to have any evidence for or against the existence of God.

    Call this “logical agnosticism”. If there’s interest I can make this the topic of an OP.

    I’m interested—so long as you define “epistemically significant” and defend your first premise (the one that contains that term).

  21. phoodoo,

    Well, that’s NOT QUITE all the nuts and bolts now is it Allan?

    There’s this little part about some random mutations causing all the novelty in the world you might want to take a look at. I know, I know, its one of those little messy remnants of Darwinism pestering everyone and you all would love to be able to finally throw it overboard already, but yet…

    Mung can speak for himself I suppose, but yes, even that. I doubt that Mung thinks every single mutation is ‘nonrandom’ in the sense you appear to intend – ie, directed. I may be wrong.

    [eta – I missed the universal – ‘all the novelty’. So if that is one of the ‘nuts and bolts’ of evolutionary theory – then yeah, I am guilty of not defining the ‘nuts and bolts’ of evolutionary theory to mean its entirety. 🙂 ]

  22. colewd,

    The idea that there are shelves of books on an incoherent subject is fascinating.

    Kinda, but I’d have no desire to read ’em. The shelves on ‘Mind, Body, Spirit’ in my local bookshop dwarf those on science. All points of the woo-compass. My wife buys ’em buy the bucketload; drives me up the wall!

  23. colewd: I think atheism is based on the circular reasoning that the material world is all that exists and God is too big a concept.

    As long as you don’t need evidence for that claim, either, I guess you can think what you want.

    If you wanted to support it with evidence instead of wishful thinking you’d need to know a good deal more. And then it would be too late, as you’d know better.

    Glen Davidson

  24. Mung: And more to the point, the book featured by the OP makes this same case.

    And clears everything up with a definition of homeostasis.

    (Fun fact to know and tell: Long ago, I was a partner in a med-tech startup, working on an advanced patient monitoring system for use in intensive care units. Perhaps Dr. Turner would like to tell us how simple it is to detect departures from homeostasis. It would be rather more helpful if he were to use the term phenomenon in the sense that scientists ordinarily do. I don’t hold out much hope for recognizing, even with the most advanced of sensors and signal processing techniques, a body’s desire to return to homeostasis.)

  25. GlenDavidson,

    Most my ideas on atheism come from Dawkins arguments, Here is a critique from the NY Times

    SEARCH
    THE STONE
    On Dawkins’s Atheism: A Response
    BY GARY GUTTING AUGUST 11, 2010 3:05 PM August 11, 2010 3:05 pm 910
    The Stone
    The Stone is a forum for contemporary philosophers and other thinkers on issues both timely and timeless.

    My August 1 essay, “Philosophy and Faith,” was primarily addressed to religious believers. It argued that faith should go hand-in-hand with rational reflection, even though such reflection might well require serious questioning of their faith. I very much appreciated the many and diverse comments and the honesty and passion with which so many expressed their views. Interestingly, many of the most passionate responses came from non-believers who objected to my claim that popular atheistic arguments (like popular theistic arguments) do not establish their conclusions. There was particular dismay over my passing comment that the atheistic arguments of Richard Dawkins are “demonstrably faulty.” This follow-up provides support for my negative assessment. I will focus on Dawkins’ arguments in his 2006 book, “The God Delusion.”

    ‘The God Delusion’ does not meet the standards of rationality that a topic as important as religion requires.
    Dawkins’s writing gives the impression of clarity, but his readable style can cover over major conceptual confusions. For example, the core of his case against God’s existence, as he summarizes it on pages 188-189, seems to go like this:

    1. There is need for an explanation of the apparent design of the universe.

    2. The universe is highly complex.

    3. An intelligent designer of the universe would be even more highly complex.

    4. A complex designer would itself require an explanation.

    5. Therefore, an intelligent designer will not provide an explanation of the universe’s complexity.

    6. On the other hand, the (individually) simple processes of natural selection can explain the apparent design of the universe.

    7. Therefore, an intelligent designer (God) almost certainly does not exist.

    Here he claims that an intelligent designer is harder to explain then natural selection yet we know natural selection is limited in explaining all the origin issues including life, matter, complex adaptions.

  26. Most my ideas on atheism come from Dawkins arguments, Here is a critique from the NY Times

    ‘The God Delusion’ does not meet the standards of rationality that a topic as important as religion requires.

    So it doesn’t even occur to you that your reliance upon Dawkins is inadequate, even as you use an NYT review to note that it’s inadequate?

    Keep killing those strawmen, they’re a real menace.

    Glen Davidson

  27. I was an atheist long before Dawkins appeared on the scene. Before I’d heard of atheism, indeed. Never even read The God Delusion, though his biology stuff is enjoyable and thought-provoking.

  28. GlenDavidson:
    So it doesn’t even occur to you that your reliance upon Dawkins is inadequate, even as you use an NYT review to note that it’s inadequate?

    While we’re at it, maybe we should not forget that “The New York Times” isn’t a person, much less an unbiased and objective agency. Quite possibly, the review was written by an actual person, and if so, quite possibly that person has “discovered” why Dawkins’ views on religion differ from his own, ipso facto becoming inadequate as a result. Just sayin’

  29. Kantian Naturalist: I think we’ve found the problem right there.

    But perhaps the problem doesn’t lie with Dawkins, but rather with the baggage that ALL of us bring to any such material. I admit upfront that I regard gods as superstitious nonsense, and I agree with Dawkins that inculcating small children with such humbug while they’re going through the “take everything an adult tells you at face value” phase constitutes child abuse.

    And by the time such people reach an age where they can present coherent arguments, their priors are completely fucked. You probably understand better than any of us that logical, coherent, rational arguments founded on idiotic axioms lead to idiotic conclusions. Which idiocy is invisible to anyone why buys into those axioms.

  30. Kantian Naturalist,

    Gutting’s essay on Dawkins can be found here. His criticism of Dawkins’s argument is quite good.

    Soon as someone says ‘necessary being’, I switch off. I can’t even make sense of the concept. Of course, if universes can’t even exist without necessary beings, then fair enough, but …

  31. phoodoo: There are still a lot of Darwinists like Rumraket who still don’t get it yet.

    I concede that I don’t get the things you don’t know how to explain but somehow still think are wrong. I also don’t get how that’s my problem.

  32. colewd: Most my ideas on atheism come from Dawkins arguments

    That’s a problem. Literally none of my ideas on atheism come from Dawkins arguments.

  33. SHHH. The first rule of the nonexistant atheistic conspiracy is that you’re not supposed to mention the nonexistant atheistic conspiracy, at least not without also calling it the nonexistant atheistic conspiracy.

  34. Mung,

    The reason ID sympathizers think that evolutionary theory doesn’t make any sense is because it’s incoherent.

    Tell us specifically what you think is incoherent about it.

  35. KN,

    Gutting’s essay on Dawkins can be found here. His criticism of Dawkins’s argument is quite good.

    I think it’s pretty poor, relying as it does on “divine simplicity” and “necessary being” arguments, but that’s a topic for another thread. (I’ve been thinking of doing an OP on divine simplicity; this may spur me to grind it out.)

  36. Allan Miller:
    Kantian Naturalist,

    Soon as someone says ‘necessary being’, I switch off. I can’t even make sense of the concept. Of course, if universes can’t even exist without necessary beings, then fair enough, but …

    The argument for the existence of a necessary being depends on the principle of sufficient reason (more precisely: it depends on how one understands the principle). Erik and I went back-and-forth about this last year, I think.

    I think that if one accepts the principle, then the argument is both valid and sound. It just doesn’t show what theists think it shows, because there’s no reason to think that the necessary being is anything like God as described by any sacred text of the Abrahamic religions.

  37. keiths: Tell us specifically what you think is incoherent about it.

    No. Or rather, read the thread. Read the book the thread is about.

    “…we do not presently have a coherent theory of adaptation, nor a coherent theory of life, nor a coherent theory of evolution.”

  38. keiths: I’ve been thinking of doing an OP on divine simplicity; this may spur me to grind it out.

    Go ahead, lol. Jump in the deep end of the pool when you can’t even swim yet.

  39. Kantian Naturalist,

    The argument for the existence of a necessary being depends on the principle of sufficient reason (more precisely: it depends on how one understands the principle).

    Likely ‘not well’, in my case! 😉 I don’t think one can take it as fundamental that everything must have a cause. There could be just one exception. We can’t necessarily export intuitions about causality inside universes to their origination.

    If one must go that way, what is gained by sticking ‘God’ in there? The child’s question – “yes, but what about God … ?” is pretty obvious.

  40. Mung,

    Do you actually understand why Turner thinks that evolutionary theory is incoherent?

    I ask because you seem to be afraid to explain Turner’s ideas in your own words, preferring instead to quote him verbatim.

  41. Mung,

    No. Or rather, read the thread. Read the book the thread is about.

    “…we do not presently have a coherent theory of adaptation, nor a coherent theory of life, nor a coherent theory of evolution.”

    Does it have a coherent argument against evolution’s coherence, beyond a few statements about what the author lacks (he can leave me out of that ‘we’)?

  42. Go ahead, lol. Jump in the deep end of the pool when you can’t even swim yet.

    Says Mung, who’s as bad at theology as he is at evolution, ID, and Bible studies.

  43. KN,

    It just doesn’t show what theists think it shows, because there’s no reason to think that the necessary being is anything like God as described by any sacred text of the Abrahamic religions.

    There’s no reason to think the necessary being is God-like, period.

  44. Allan Miller: I don’t think one can take it as fundamental that everything must have a cause. There could be just one exception. We can’t necessarily export intuitions about causality inside universes to their origination.

    The Book of Job is all about brute facts. God can do whatever he wants to you and your loved ones, for reasons that, if you knew them, would seem arbitrary. When God appears to Job in a whirlwind, he makes much of Job’s abject incomprehension of His Creation. Chapters 38-41 are anathema to ID. So the fine Christian culture warriors ignore entirely a remarkable passage in which God speaks, and hang their helmets instead on a sentence in a letter by Harry Dean Stanton (perfect casting; RIP).

    For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
    Romans 1:20

  45. Mung: No, that’s not true. The reason ID sympathizers think that evolutionary theory doesn’t make any sense is because it’s incoherent.

    I call bullshit.

    Prove me wrong.

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