Please use this thread for (and only for) alerting admins to moderation issues and for raising complaints arising from particular decisions. We remind participants that TSZ is a benign dictatorship, the property of Dr. Elizabeth Liddle. All decisions regarding policy and implementation are hers alone.
You enjoy verbally torturing colewd… Do you find this normal?
Cole verbally tortures himself. He’s been posting the same egregious lies about the sciences of evolution for years. He keeps reposting the same lies despite having been corrected countless times by countless different people.
Why do you want to support such a blatant liar when others call him out?
Are you 100 % sure you are right?
I don’t think Bill deliberately deceives anybody and I would like to give him, like you and others, the benefit of the doubt…
I know that sometimes he express himself in a way that could sound contradictory but that is most likely not his intent…
If I may ask: I assume you are a retired, high ranked military officer, right?
If so, you could help us to understand a principle of courage and sacrifice…
What motivated you to become a soldier?
You knew the risks associated with your decision, right?
Sorry but Bill has used up all his “benefit of the doubt” credits. He was give the benefit of the doubt the first twenty or so times he was corrected. He always comes back the next day and repeats the same stupid PRATT claims, like “evolution has no identified mechanism”. He’s been doing it for years on lots of other E/C discussion boards, not just here. There’s a standing joke about his “selective” amnesia. Other people (not me) have even produced “Bill Cole Bingo” cards to keep track of how many times he repeats his ID-Creationist catch phrases.
So, you defend evolution because you are sure it’s true and the mechanism of natural selection and random mutations is adequate to account for all the new body plans?
You know it’s truth you are defending, right?
What is a body plan? What is a new body plan? When did the last body plan appear? How many body plans are there?
How different do two body plans have to be to be considered separate body plans?
What is the J-Mac account that details the origin of the “new body plans” you think need to be accounted for?
All simple questions. All predicated on the fact you are asking questions about how evolution explains body plans, hence must know what a ‘body plan’ is to recognize an explanation for one if offered.
Anybody can look at the actual posts on this board, and see the truth of it. So it’s a 100% factual claim that bill has been told the same things over and over that he then forgets he’s been told.
But you won’t check, so who cares.
Let’s say you found a pink dress and you want to try it on but it does it fit. It’s too small. So, you ask your buddy to try it on because he is 100 pound lighter and he manages to put it on, but it still doesn’t fit. It doesn’t look right; he has no boobs, no wide hips, but his shoulders are too big, the arms are too muscular etc.
Why doesn’t the dress fit?
Because the dress was designed for a different body, with a different body plan and no matter what alterations you make, it will not fit. You need a new dress for new body plan, get it?
You should join this topic:
When fox’s body plans no longer fox
Wrong. I defend evolution against the lies told by the Bill Coles and Sal Cordovas of the world because
1. Scientific integrity is critical to our understanding and progress and it’s of paramount importance to keep out the damaging pseudoscience horseshit and
2. I can’t stand willful liars.
Adapa,
Your are emotionally tied to evolutionary theory so you are not objective. I also think your understanding of the science is iffy. I may make mistakes but I am not intentionally trying to deceive anyone. People have a right to disagree with the “consensus”. This is the USA not communist China.
Thanks for yet another lie to back up your religious beliefs.
People don’t have a right to continually lie about the consensus, like claiming “evolution has no mechanism”. That’s not a mere difference of opinion, it’s a flat out lie.
You lack the moral standing to make this claim.
You lack the moral and knowledge standing to make this claim.
I’d [still] believe you that you’re not intentionally trying to deceive anybody, but I’m convinced that the reason is that you truly haven’t understood any of the explanations given to you. I am also convinced that you don’t even try and read them, and if you do, you don’t try too hard to understand them. I suspect that you have convinced yourself that it’s all noise and nothing else. Thus you ignore it.
The problem is not about disagreement. The problem is about understanding. If you understood, then you would not bring the very same claims to the table. Claims that are founded on misconceived versions of evolution and of science. Claims that have been debunked too many times already. This is not about your beliefs Bill. This is not about agreement. This is about understanding and stopping. To understand you have to read. So, you leave people thinking that either you’re profoundly dishonest, or you’re unwilling or unable to understand. I think it’s both the latter (unable and unwilling). If so, then a tiny bit of the former (dishonest) would, sadly, apply, since it also takes dishonesty to deny the lack of understanding.
Have to agree with the other party here. The problem is not “evolutionary theory”. The problem is evolutionism.
IDism does not make this distinction clear enough. The reason for this is because it is much more fragile than colewd realizes. And it would require admitting ideological IDism, which no IDists I have met yet are prepared to or want to do. That ideology is nevertheless expressed repeatedly in written & spoken words.
Btw, another OP ready to go re: Behe vs./& Swamidass tomorrow
DNA_Jock,
Cluttering a thread by quoting one of the posts in that thread? You are not a good liar Jock. You have approved Adapa and Entropy and Rummy’s breaking of the rules over and over. You contort yourself to make an excuse about why telling another poster to fuck off is ok, but quoting them isn’t. Calling someone a moron is ok, because well they were provoked. Calling someone an illiterate scientific rube is ok-unless they call you that. Saying, you regurgitate creationist lies is ok, but saying you regurgitate evolutionist lies is not.
You have no credibility at all Jock. I exposed your hypocrisy, and your response is to double down and become even more hypocritical.
What evolutionist lies, specifically?
The words ‘body plan’ are not on that page. But the word ‘kind’ is. So it seems that ‘body plan’ is actually a biblical ‘kind’ to you.
And that’s not science.
That answered literally none of the questions I asked you. So it seems you are asking for an evolutionary explanation of body plans but will be unable to recognise it if offered as you can’t actually say what a body plan is.
Where to ‘body plans’ come from J-Mac, in your opinion? Does the designer create them and drop them into our reality or…..?
So bodybuilders and anorexics have different body plans according to you, as the same dress will not fit both. And that makes literally no sense at all. And that’s what passes for an ‘explanation’ in J-Mac’s world?
Oh? And yet you would no doubt reject the same reasoning when applied to your deity.
If your deity really cared about us they would do something about starvation, cancer, the fact I’ve just used up the last of the toilet roll.
But no, Elizabeth is in the wrong not to care according to J-Mac because she can do something about it! And should do something about it.
Whereas for his deity J-Mac has nothing except excuses as to why it does not pass the bog roll under the cubicle wall.
Gregory,
I completely agree. I also agree on IDism. When people are practicing evolutionism do you call them out in the same way you call the ID guys out?
Pardon?!
Would bodybuilding cause a man to grow boobs or anorexia change the structure of the bones in the pelvic???
Just as I thought you don’t even have a fundamental comprehension what the body plans are…
Your trolling has been noted…
phoodoo,
phoodoo,
Are you demanding justice from people who couldn’t careless?
According to their evolution driven belief system, the survival of the fittest tramps down anything, including any sense of justice, for the “good cause”… 😉
OMagain asks for J-Mac to explain what J-Mac means by “body plan” and J-Mac proffers up this extremely unusual description of what he means by “body plan”
OMagain expresses incredulity:
J-Mac keeps digging:
Oh J-Mac. You have described humans with different ‘builds’ as having different ‘body plans’. You appear to have forgotten that different “body plans” are meant to be something that unguided evolution cannot create.
You have lost the plot.
Additionally (and this is why I enjoy your output so much) your ignorance of biology leads you to choose wonderfully bad examples, reminiscent of Russian fox-breeding for “over a hundred years”.
You ask:
Yes, yes it can.
Well, it will lead to osteopenia and osteoporosis, and even post-puberty anorexia will cause “pelvic contours to lose their female conformation”
So, yea, you were wrong about that.
Even if you had been right about bodybuilders and anorexics, the idea that the development of secondary sexual characteristics marks a novel “body plan” is still awesome.
DNA_Jock,
So, DNA-jock agrees the pelvic bone structures are the same body plans in men and women, yet different, and changes from one to another could be altered by bodybuilding and anorexia…
What else can be said but DNA joking…
Why don’t you invite over OMagain and try either bodybuilding or anorexia, and see if you can put your bodies under selective pressure to accomplish it? 😉
Wow phoodoo, it’s just terrible how badly you are treated here. You really should vote with your feet. Take those SJW delicate sensibilities and your amazing scientific knowledge from TSZ and move them to Uncommon Descent. By doing so you’d raise the average IQ of both places. 🙂
I missed the part where you defined the term “body plan” and told us how many different body plans there are. Can you link back to it or provide those answers here? Thanks.
Where did I define the body plans?
With the pink dress illustration??? 😉
I’m still waiting for you and your buddies to continue the topic on red/silver fox evolution… You haven’t been avoiding it, have you???
When will the body plans of fox change into another body plan other than fox/dog/wolf like??? The external part, the fur, changes within one generation.
What is the prediction?
You didn’t. That’s the problem. You keep on about different “body plans” but seem to be using your own custom definition which no one else has heard of.
So what is your definition of “body plan” and how many different ones are there?
DNA_jock get his job performance reviewed:
though this video applies to all the moderators…;-)
This is a contradiction, but I know you don’t know that…
I know you keep running from the question and showing everyone how ignorant of basic biology you are. That must count for something. 🙂
I have submitted a new post
A new OP is awaiting moderation.
Tnx J-mac
New post in pending queue.
Mods,
Could you feature Allan’s new OP? It deserves to stay up top for a while.
Why?
So that after 5000 comments or so nothing will be established but more confusion about the lack of evidence as to why sex evolved?
New post submitted
Nuh…
J-Mac,
If you were allergic to BS you’d be dead from autoimmune disease.
How many commentators going by Patrick are there at TSZ?
keiths,
Which one is your friend, you’d been sending personal emails to, when you were in exile?
Can I be Patrick? 😉
I can’t help but comment when those who are admins/moderators here at TSZ, who want to convince others that they are impartial judges, accuse another member of incompetence.
Elizabeth has spoken:
Surely this encompasses a charge of incompetence.
Will DNA_Jock guano his own post?
A purely technical question: Why does theskepticalzone.com suck in Chromium? Or is it just me?
My relatively vanilla Chromium works on the web at large as supposed to, but navigating to theskepticalzone.com leads to downloading a 0kb text file and empty frame for some reason. Can anybody confirm?
Erik,
I use Chrome and have no problem. Not used Chromium (which I see is an open-source project started by Google). Chromium doesn’t show in the site stats count but maybe it doesn’t distinguish between it and Chrome, which is by far the most used browser here.
Pedantically speaking, incompetence in some endeavour might indicate lack of skills or training – ignorance rather than stupidity. Calling an act incompetent is certainly not rule-breaking.
ETA That was an incompetent effort at an argument! Fine. You are an incompetent person! Not fine.
Hmm, right now everything is alright again. I guess it was a temporary hickup with WordPress.
What happened was that another browser (a FF fork) started acting weird just when I was about to publish my post. Then I opened Chromium and could not get to theskepticalzone.com at all, while the rest of the web showed up as expected. Minutes later, I was able to publish the post in the first browser.
Seems like WordPress tried to prevent me from posting, but I won.
Well done! 😉
As I have said here before, the same thing happens to me on occasion. But when it happens, its so weird, that it will happen across all platforms, or browsers, and if I try to open on my phone, the same thing will happen. The just as mysteriously, it will stop.
Gives the impression of something nefarious happening, but who knows.