Moderation Issues (5)

Please use this thread for (and only for) alerting admins to moderation issues and for raising complaints arising from particular decisions. We remind participants that TSZ is a benign dictatorship, the property of Dr. Elizabeth Liddle. All decisions regarding policy and implementation are hers alone.

2,097 thoughts on “Moderation Issues (5)

  1. John Harshman:
    J-Mac,
    I quite agree that the dominance of trolls makes it uninviting to write an OP. That’s certainly why I haven’t tried one recently. We need a better class of creationists. Presumably one exists, but I don’t now how to attract them.

    Simply put them on ignore.

  2. petrushka: Simply put them on ignore.

    How can you put them on ignore if you haven’t attracted them yet? How would putting them on ignore attract them?

  3. dazz:
    JMac challenges my faith
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    in humanity

    You would have to believe in something close to reality first to be challanged, don’t you think?
    Trolling is not much to go on…and you have already embarrassed yourself with the okapi thingy… so…unless you talk to Johnny Harsh and get some inside scoop how flightless birdies lose major breast bone overnight, then you know…there is not much to debate other than your ignorance…

    Humanity? What’s that? Better monkeys according to you…

  4. John Harshman:
    J-Mac,

    I quite agree that the dominance of trolls makes it uninviting to write an OP. That’s certainly why I haven’t tried one recently. We need a better class of creationists. Presumably one exists, but I don’t now how to attract them.

    What makes you think you are not a troll? My kids told be to put you on ignore. Can you guess why?
    ETA: Give me a break! I was stuck in traffic for 40 min. I had to kill the time somehow… 😉

  5. We’re back up and running!

    Sorry for the outage!. We’re now running on an up-to-date version of PHP.

  6. I see you’ve finally figured out how to actually suspend a poster. Take the whole site down.

    Worked well!

  7. walto:
    I see you’ve finally figured out how to actually suspend a poster. Take the whole site down.

    Worked well!

    🙂

  8. Clarification. The PHP has not been upgraded yet. The messages plugin has been disabled. Once the change in PHP version has been made, the message system can be restored. PM data is not lost and should come back when the plugin is re-enabled.

  9. Alan Fox:
    We’re back up and running!
    Sorry for the outage!. We’re now running on an up-to-date version of PHP.

    The site has been sick for several weeks. sometimes takes ten seconds to refresh.

  10. The message system is now back up and running, as far as I can tell. Also the site seems to have speeded up. Fingers crossed…

  11. J-Mac:
    My kids told be to put you on ignore. Can you guess why?

    Because John shows that their daddy is making a fool out of himself?

  12. Alan Fox:
    The message system is now back up and running, as far as I can tell. Also the site seems to have speeded up. Fingers crossed…

    I agree that so far it has performed much better since change. Any guesses as to why? New software version?

  13. BruceS,

    We’re now on PHP version 5.6 which is still supported unlike 5.3 which caused the crash. Lizzie also mentioned migration to a new server. Not sure if this is also a performance upgrade. She’s hiking across Northern England coast-to-coast currently so communication has been a bit hit-and-miss.

  14. The following is a copy of a private email from keiths, posted with his permission. I am sharing it because I believe it is pertinent to this thread and nothing in the Rules prohibits doing so.

    Alan:

    We’re now on PHP version 5.6 which is still supported unlike 5.3 which caused the crash.

    PHP version 5.3 did not cause the crash. It was running stably. What caused the crash, according to your own report, was the update of the message plugin.

    Why was the plugin blindly updated? Or if automatic updates are enabled, then why? Plugin upgrades should be tested on an offline database before being rolled out on the live site. This is just common sense.

    The outage was completely avoidable.

  15. Patrick,

    @ Patrick

    I’ll let this one stand but the ad-hoc arrangement is that you can relay keiths’s messages to squawk box thus allowing him “to defend himself”.

    ETA and a summary to “summaries”, of course.

  16. petrushka,

    That’s good. My causing the crash solved a problem that I’d been gently nagging Lizzie about for nearly two years. 🙂

  17. Patrick:
    The following is a copy of a private email from keiths, posted with his permission.I am sharing it because I believe it is pertinent to this thread and nothing in the Rules prohibits doing so.

    Alan:

    PHP version 5.3 did not cause the crash.It was running stably.What caused the crash, according to your own report, was the update of the message plugin.

    Why was the plugin blindly updated?Or if automatic updates are enabled, then why?Plugin upgrades should be tested on an offline database before being rolled out on the live site.This is just common sense.

    The outage was completely avoidable.

    Maybe we should dock their pay.

  18. @ Patrick

    Pre-moderation is now operating on your account. Comments from you will be released from the moderation queue as soon as practicable. However, comments that contain material from keiths (currently under suspension) not destined for “squawk box” (other than his summary for the “summaries” thread) will go directly to guano.

  19. Alan Fox:
    petrushka,

    That’s good. My causing the crash solved a problem that I’d been gently nagging Lizzie about for nearly two years.

    Any lessons learned for administrators? I don’t know anything about WP and its plugin standards for documentation, but here are some general thoughts based on my IT experiences:
    1. Was there a documented incompatibility between the plugin and the PHP version?
    2. If no documentation, any way to test without using the production system?
    3. If plugin or PHP upgrades are planned, is it possible to have a backout plan if the upgrade fails and cannot be quickly remedied?
    4. Should latest PHP be installed in regular basis, eg semi-annually?
    5. Can a maintenence event notice be provided to users before upgrades are attempted?

    Of course, I understand that server and software admin are both voluntary, so if any substantial effort is needed for the above, it might make the suggestions inappropriate.

  20. Discussion of moderation issues is on topic in the Moderation Issues thread. No comments are to be moved to Guano from Moderation Issues. DNA_Jock is overreacting and abusing his admin privileges, again.

  21. Patrick notes:

    There is no rule against me posting personal email I receive. There is no rule that allows any admin to suspend a member for 30 days (or any amount of time).

    True, and true.

    There is no rule that keiths has broken. There is no authorization from Elizabeth for your treatment of keiths.

    False, and false.

    None of the admins have been able to quote the rule that keiths supposedly broke. Alan even admitted that there was no such rule. Your first false is false.

    In her comment, Elizabeth authorized “put him in pre-moderation, and explain why. If the problem recurs, ban.” The admins prevented him from updating his post to conform to the newly invented rule and he was banned for 30 days, despite Neil admitting that the admins are not allowed to do so. So your second false is also false.

    However (and very unfortunately for your uber-legalistic interpretation), there is no “10th amendment” rule that reserves unenumerated rights to the people. That is to say, there is no rule that forbids moderators from banning commenters, whether temporarily or permanently. Frighteningly, there is no rule that forbids moderators from banning commenters even if they are, unlike keiths, entirely innocent.

    If admins aren’t limited by the rules, there’s no point in having them. Since Elizabeth did write them, the admins should follow them.

    It’s a benevolent dictatorship, and the dictator is away. Here’s hoping the plenipotentiaries are as benevolent as the dictator.

    Although my suspicion is that most of them reckon this is getting a mite old.

    That’s not your (nor Alan’s nor Neil’s) call. Elizabeth is the site owner and she did not authorize you to immediately ban keiths. She has not authorized you to Guano comments in Moderation Issues. You’re not a benevolent dictator, you’re a petty authoritarian.

    Start behaving like you actually support Elizabeth’s goals for the site.

  22. Alan Fox:
    @ Patrick

    Pre-moderation is now operating on your account. Comments from you will be released from the moderation queue as soon as practicable. However, comments that contain material from keiths (currently under suspension) not destined for “squawk box” (other than his summary for the “summaries” thread) will go directly to guano.

    Please defend your action by referencing the specific rule I have violated and the rule that gives you the authority to place me, or anyone else, in pre-moderation.

    Please also justify Guano’ing on-topic comments in the Squawk Box or Moderation Issues threads.

    While you’re at it, please cite the rule that allows DNA_Jock to Guano comments about moderation in the Moderation Issues thread.

  23. IN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS ON TSZ, ALAN FOX’S LONG ANTICIPATED RETIREMENT FROM MODERATOR DUTIES IS…*

    FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS.

  24. BruceS: Any lessons learned for administrators?I don’t know anything about WP and its plugin standards for documentation, but here are some general thoughts based on my IT experiences:
    1.Was there a documented incompatibility between the plugin and the PHP version?

    It states on the WordPress info site for the plugin that min 5.4 PHP is required. Unfortunately, I did not look at the requirements that are available on a link. Even so, the worst that should have happened when a plugin upgrade drops off backwards compatibility is the plugin no longer works. I was gobsmacked when the site crashed.

    2.If no documentation, any way to test without using the production system?

    Yes. I always test new plugins on a site I have running with exactly the same setup as TSZ. I’ll make sure I check the PHP min requirement for any update in future.

    3.If plugin or PHP upgrades are planned, is it possible to have a backout plan if the upgrade fails and cannot be quickly remedied?

    The site is saved every four hours so no crash is irrecoverable. The data is always safe.

    4.Should latest PHP be installed in regular basis, eg semi-annually?

    The current version of PHP – 5.6 – will cease being supported in December. The later versions of PHP ( 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3) are all claimed to be much faster than 5.6. Unfortunately, the current theme, also no longer maintained, is incompatible with all of them. The simplest thing would be to switch to an up-to-date WordPress theme and switch to PHP 7.3. I will suggest this to Lizzie, when she returns and if I’m spared.

    5.Can a maintenence event notice be provided to users before upgrades are attempted?

    A maintenance notice is displayed during any upgrade process. They only seem to take seconds.

    Of course, I understand that server and software admin are both voluntary, so if any substantial effort is needed for the above, it might make the suggestions inappropriate.

    No problem. I hold my hands up to causing the crash by not being more cautious with the upgrade. On the other hand, the site is now much faster and Lizzie now knows how easy it is to change PHP version for the site.

    ETA

    Only Lizzie has access to her ISP and cPanel. When the current issue arose, Lizzie was hors connexion for some time. Up to her if she feels comfortable with some kind of contingency plan if she knows she will be unavailable for an extended period.

  25. DNA_Jock:
    Patrick,
    Factually incorrect. You owe me an apology.

    Mere assertion is unconvincing. Alan specifically said that there was no rule but that “there should be.”

    Patrick,
    Factually incorrect. Also, learn to read for comprehension.

    Mind the beam in your own eye. I quoted directly from Elizabeth to show what she authorized. Refusing to allow keiths to modify his OP and 30 day bans were not part of it.

    This entire issue could have been avoided if you, Alan, and Neil would have simply followed the rules and Elizabeth’s guidance. All this has demonstrated is your egotism and petty authoritarianism. It’s not good for TSZ and it’s a bad look for you.

  26. My apologies Patrick.
    I had assumed that you would pay attention sufficiently to note which comments of yours I was replying to.
    My statement “Also, learn to read for comprehension.” referenced your peculiar take that it was I who was arguing that “That which is not forbidden is therefore permissible. (Sanctioned, even?)”.
    I was not. Check out the use of “frighteningly”. That’s your argument, which you repeat at the start of every human centipede comment; I was making fun of it. “uber-legalistic” should have clued you in there.
    Also, your inability to distinguish between a dictator (Lizzie) and a plenipotentiary (the moderators).
    Also factually incorrect, since I have referenced the rules that keiths broke.

  27. My statement “Factually incorrect. You owe me an apology.” Was in reply to your assertion ” No comments are to be moved to Guano from Moderation Issues. DNA_Jock is overreacting and abusing his admin privileges, again.” which is factually incorrect: I have done no such thing. I moved my own comment, and not anyone else’s.
    I don’t actually expect an apology from you – that was a sardonic response to your continued assertions that I owe keiths an apology – but I DO expect you to retract the allegation in all forums that you have made it. Specifically, at ATBC and to Lizzie:

    DNA_Jock has been moving comments from the Moderation Issues thread to Guano. These comments were directly related to moderation issues. My understanding is that no comments are to be moved from that thread. Worse, he has failed to include a link or even mention that the comments were moved. This violates the TSZ ethos.

    Factually incorrect and defamatory.
    Thank you in advance for publishing the retraction.

  28. DNA_Jock:
    My statement “Factually incorrect. You owe me an apology.” Was in reply to your assertion ” No comments are to be moved to Guano from Moderation Issues. DNA_Jock is overreacting and abusing his admin privileges, again.” which is factually incorrect: I have done no such thing. I moved my own comment, and not anyone else’s.
    I don’t actually expect an apology from you – that was a sardonic response to your continued assertions that I owe keiths an apology – but I DO expect you to retract the allegation in all forums that you have made it. Specifically, at ATBC and to Lizzie:

    Factually incorrect and defamatory.
    Thank you in advance for publishing the retraction.

    This nonsense has to end…
    This blog has become a narcissistic battlefield of very few people who, for no particular reason, think they deserve a special attention… That includes the crybaby Harshaman…
    I would like to know why?

  29. I simply don’t understand why would someone, like Lizzy, provided she is in the right frame of mind, would support this blog, where very few people camp here, AND MOST OF THEM RESIST or FILLTER IT THOUGH OPTIMISM BIAS?

  30. J-Mac:
    I simply don’t understand why would someone, like Lizzy, provided she is in the right frame of mind, would support this blog, where very few people camp here, AND MOST OF THEM RESIST orFILLTER IT THOUGH OPTIMISM BIAS?

    I don’t even know what that means.

  31. Alan Fox,

    Thanks for the detailed response.
    By backout, I was referring to ability to restore software to state preceding latest change; it’s different from backup/restore of data.
    I agree that changes which cannot be undone or fixed without Lizzie should be avoided if she is not available (assuming she does not want to give passwords to others for the server access).

  32. BruceS:
    Alan Fox,

    Thanks for the detailed response.
    By backout, I was referring to ability to restore software to state preceding latest change; it’s different from backup/restore of data.

    Something like “system restore – last known good configuration”? Is there something available that wouldn’t need cPanel access to use in an emergency? This particular crash could only be dealt with via direct server access.

    I agree that changes which cannot be undone or fixed without Lizzie should be avoided if she is not available (assuming she does not want to give passwords to others for the server access).

    I’m sure she doesn’t and I wouldn’t expect her to. Anyway, once bitten… I won’t be accepting further updates without checking by accepting them at the test site first.

  33. Alan Fox: Something like “system restore – last known good configuration”? Is there something available that wouldn’t need cPanel access to use in an emergency? This particular crash could only be dealt with via direct server access.

    Sorry, Alan, I have no idea. My detailed technical knowledge of system admin is from the mainframe/mini-computer era. Management generalities and buzzwords since then.

  34. Admins,

    The flood of OPs (3 OPs) by me since August 1 was done in the wake of ICC 2018 where I had interactions with dozens of creationists. It was requested I explore some of the topics and I also volunteered to explore some of the topics discussed at ICC 2018, such as promiscuous domains and motifs, Rob Carter’s paper, and mtDNA heteroplasmy. There has been a request for me to explore frame shift mutation papers given that I worked on the nylonase frameshift hypothesis last year.

    So, I’m just writing this to say, I’m appreciative of the opportunity to post at TSZ, and I’m doing my best not to flood TSZ with OPs, but it just so happened a lot of issues got raised at the July/August International Conference on Creationism and I’d like to discuss some of those topics at TSZ while they are fresh in my mind and while the requests for me to look into these issues is still hot.

    I’m not abandoning my other threads, but I expect I will revist them and keep them alive over the coming year, God willing.

    Thanks in advance.

  35. ANNOUNCEMENT

    Member, keiths, whose account was suspended for thirty days has now had his account restored. As I have no undertaking from him regarding future conduct, for the moment any comments he cares to post will enter the moderation queue and will be released as soon as practicable.

  36. ANNOUNCEMENT

    Moderator Alan Fox, who has disgraced himself by chronic abuses of his moderator privileges (including most recently an illegitimate and rule-violating 30-day suspension), has now continued the abuse by placing Patrick and me in pre-moderation. The rules do not permit him to do so. He knows that, which is why he is unable to respond to Patrick’s challenge:

    Please defend your action by referencing the specific rule I have violated and the rule that gives you the authority to place me, or anyone else, in pre-moderation.

    In his usual contemptuous fashion, Alan is proceeding anyway.

    As Alan has offered no undertakings regarding his future conduct — no indication that he will respect the rules and refrain from abusing his privileges in service of his personal grudges — and as he has shown an inability to operate without close adult supervision — I will not participate further here until Lizzie has returned and is able to intervene.

    Until Lizzie’s return, anything I have to say will be posted at AtBC, where Alan and the other moderators will be helpless to interfere or censor.

    (Earlier emails to Lizzie from Patrick and me can be seen here.)

  37. keiths,

    Honestly, keiths, just start your own forum.

    You can then post an announcement at TSZ inviting others to join up.

    That way, you can set the rules and manage the site the way that you want.

    If you post an announcement here, and keep it clean (i.e. just a plain announcement), I will approve it for posting. You can even make that a new topic thread, and I’ll pin it for a few days.

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