Since scientists have not been able to prove or even logically explain the origins of life (abiogenesis) by natural, unguided, gradual processes often referred to as the bottom-up approach, it is conceivable to imply that the process of life origins on Earth could be scientifically explained by the design and creation process often referred to as the top-down approach.The top-down approach is sometimes used by scientists in attempts of recreation of small life forms, like a eukaryotic cell.
I will however apply the top-down approach to the process of the designing and creating of human life Intelligent Designer or God (ID/God) could have used.
In other words, the top-down approach is the only conceivable way of the designing and creating life as even in case of the simplest of cells all organelles and functional structures of a cell have to be present, and at the same time, as they are mutually interdependent, including the cell membrane, for it to function or be alive or stay alive. Without the cell membrane or one of the structures or organelles, the cell stops functioning and eventually dies.
In an attempt to explain how the process of the designing and creating of life could have been achieved by ID/God, I will use the illustration some naturalistic, evolutionary scientists often use to try to explain the process of evolution of life often called descent with modifications, where they refer to an “evolution” or change of one model of the car over the many years.
Since this process itself doesn’t explain how the original car appeared in the first place by slow, unguided processes, (bottom-up) I will use it as an example of what kind of planning, engineering, integration and manufacturing would be necessary for a car to “appear” in the first place, before it could go through the further gradual processes of “descent with modification” or changes over time.
Then I will apply the same methods and principles to the process of the designing and creating of life.
The designer comes up with a general idea and structure for a car and its function
- The designer decides what functional systems would be necessary for the car to work according to the design
- Then the designer decides how the individual parts need to work and be integrated into functional systems and functional systems into functional car
- The designer decides what materials need to be manufactured, such as steel, aluminum, copper, plastic, electrical wires, fabrics etc. for the individual parts to be manufactured he is going to use in order for the functional systems to be assembled, such as an engine, transmission, chassis the body/frame, source of energy and so on
- Once the design has been experimented with the integration of all the individual parts into systems and systems into the functional car, the final blueprint of the car is ready. The final manufacturing process of all the parts can begin
Then, all the parts can be assembled into functional systems and the functional systems into a functional car - The car has been assembled and is ready to function according to the design
Then the designer turns on the ignition, puts into the first gear, then he puts his foot on the accelerator and the car moves - The idea for a car has become reality. It functions according to the initial idea and the design
Let’s look closer at the materials, such as steel, copper, fabrics, wires etc. They are made of smaller elements; really tiny pieces of stuff. Actually, on subatomic level, they are made up of 3 ingredients: protons, neutrons and electrons.
As a matter fact, as far as we know, the whole matter in the universe is made of protons, neutrons and electrons.
The same applies to life, including human body. Life and human body on subatomic level is made of 3 ingredients: protons, neutrons and electrons.
And this is very important information because on this very fact my whole theory as to How ID/God created life is based.
Just like the car, human body is made of or built of many functional systems, like circulatory system, nervous system, lymphatic system, bones, veins, and so on.
Human body systems are made of integrated organs.
Those organs are made of different types of tissues.
Tissues are made of different types of cells (about 200 types of cells).
Cells are made of different organelles – organized or specialized structures within the living cell. Most types of cells share the same organelles or specialized structures within a living cells but other cells do not. Some of the organelles carry DNA, which is necessary for the process of reproduction of the living organism that non-living things, like a cars, don’t obviously have.
Organelles are made of macromolecules, like carbohydrates, lipids, amino acids, proteins and so on.
Macromolecules are made of chemical elements, like carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and so on.
Chemical elements are made of atoms.
Atoms are made of subatomic elements like protons, neutrons and electrons.
And, as I mentioned earlier, just like the car, on subatomic level is made of protons, neutrons and electrons, so is human body and all life on the Earth.
(Quarks are, as far as we know, the smallest pieces of stuff. There are 6 different types of quarks, and different combinations produce different types of subatomic particles like protons. For simplicity and clarity, I’ll focus on the 3 ingredients or building blocks of all matter: protons, neutrons and electrons as it is just easier to follow what I’m trying to convey.)
If I missed a step or more in the structure of what the human body and life is made of, feel free to correct it but this is not really that important now…
Life and human body on subatomic level are built of only 3 ingredients: protons, neutrons and electrons. While this might be mind-boggling if you think about how complex human body is, especially human brain, this is actually true as far as science has revealed it so far.
While the composition of life and human body is based on the 3 subatomic elements protons, neutrons and electrons, how life and human body function is based on how the three elemental building blocks of life (protons, neutrons and electrons) interact with each other or what their quantum state is; what their interactions or relations are.
Quantum state is simply something that encodes or translates the state of a system; how protons, neutrons and electrons interact with each other to form a state of a system. Behind each quantum state is the information that expresses the quantum state of the subatomic particles.
Here is the most interesting part about quantum state and quantum mechanics (science that is a part of physics) that deals with the mathematical description of the motion and interaction of subatomic particles.
According to quantum mechanics any quantum state of protons, neutrons and electrons that form a system or systems can be transferred or teleported due to quantum entanglement (predicament of subatomic particles) from one place to another, without traveling through any physical medium.
Scientists have already successfully teleported photons, which are particles of light as well as small pieces of matter across a short distance.
And this is the most essential part of my theory.
Since scientists have successfully teleported particles and small pieces of matter, who says that humans could not be teleported in the future? While human teleportation is still in theory today, it may very well become reality in the future. It has not been proven wrong at least mathematically.
Let’s just focus on the possibilities of human teleportation.
Since a picture is worth a thousand words here are some videos that explain how quantum teleportation of humans could work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI
I personally like this video at 40 minute mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z8Ma2YT8vY
So, human teleportation in theory seems possible. Whether it will be possible in the future it remains to be seen.
NEXT
So you may wonder; how does human teleportation, whether possible or not in the future, relate to the theme of my post: How did the ID/God create life?
Well, I think it does.
As you may recall on the outset of my post, just like any car is built in the top-down process starting with an idea/design, blueprint etc. all the way down to the elements that are made of subatomic particles, so could human body starting with its blueprint all the way down to the elements that are made subatomic particles; protons, neurons and electrons.
How that could have been done in reality by ID/God, the possibility of human quantum teleportation sheds some light on that.
For human body to be teleported–transferred from one place to another, without actually traveling through any physical medium–the quantum state of each of the subatomic particles that make up the human body to be teleported would have to be extracted (scanned or analyzed) and then teleported or sent exactly to the designated location where the human body is supposed to “arrive” and to be reassembled.
In quantum teleportation, the subatomic particles that make up the original human body are NOT literary sent. No. It’s the information about their quantum state that is sent thanks to the laws of quantum mechanics called quantum entanglement.
Wikipedia–Quantum entanglement is a physical phenomenon that occurs when pairs or groups of particles are generated or interact in ways such that the quantum state of each particle cannot be described independently of the others, even when the particles are separated by a large distance—instead, a quantum state must be described.
QE video link???
For human quantum teleportation to happen, 2 entangled chambers containing subatomic particles, protons, neutrons and electrons are needed. The first chamber will act as a “sending chamber” and the second as a” receiving or reassembling chamber”.
Then, a third chamber will be needed that will act as a body scanner or fax machine that will be interacting with the “sending chamber”, while compering the quantum states of each particle that the human body to be teleported is made of.
The process of quantum teleportation involves the scanning or extracting the quantum state of each of the subatomic particles (protons, neurons and electrons) that the body to be teleported is made of and sending it to the receiving chamber that is entangled with the sending chamber.
Because the particles in the “sending chamber” are entangled with the particles in the “receiving chamber”, the “receiving chamber” reads the quantum state of each particles that was extracted from the human body in the scanning chamber and reassembles it into the exact quantum state or the exact human body composition that it was before being teleported.
In quantum teleportation, the subatomic particles that make up the original human body are not sent. It’s the information about their quantum state that is sent thanks to the laws of quantum mechanics called quantum entanglement.
Since according to quantum mechanics, life on the subatomic level equals the quantum state of each the subatomic particles that make up the life form, there should be no difference between the human body that was alive in the scanning chamber and the reassembled human body that is now alive in the receiving chamber.
Since according to quantum mechanics you can’t create 2 exactly the same quantum states of an object, in quantum teleportation you can’t teleport an object without destroying in the process.
Actually, you can’t extract the quantum state of the object to be teleported without destroying it in the process of scanning it.
While there may be some philosophical implications (depending on one’s beliefs on soul and consciousness) that would have to be answered about the process of human quantum teleportation (I can try to answer them later) let’s just focus on the implications that the possibility of human quantum teleportation presents us with when it comes to the process of creation of human life.
While still in theory, human quantum teleportation seems possible, could the human quantum teleportation be done by the ID/God who created the universe and physical laws that govern quantum mechanics and make human quantum teleportation seem possible?
Let’s just ponder this for a moment: Scientist have already teleported small pieces of matter. Could the creator of matter and the physical laws that make quantum teleportation possible teleport bigger pieces of matter?
How about quantum teleportation of a piece of matter that is alive? Is it possible? Would it be feasible for ID/God who knows every detail about quantum mechanics and quantum entanglement that make quantum teleportation possible, including human teleportation?
And if ID/God is able to teleport matter that is alive, like human body, could he have used the same method, the laws that govern quantum mechanics that he created, like quantum entanglement to create life in the top-down approach rather than bottom-up, like abiogenesis or evolution?
Without answering this question now, let’s assume that ID/God could use the physical laws of quantum mechanics, like quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation to create life on Earth, including humans.
Let’s see how that could have been accomplished considering what we have discussed so far about quantum mechanics, quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation.
As I said before, according to quantum mechanics, life on subatomic level equals the many quantum states of subatomic particles-protons, neurons and electrons.
In other words, the composition of life is dependent on the information about the many different quantum states of the particles that form the life form, including human life.
As I mentioned earlier, for human quantum teleportation to happen, 2 chambers with entangled particles protons, neutrons and electrons are needed, as well as a scanning device or chamber that compares the quantum state of particles making up the human body to be teleported with the particles found in one of the entangled chambers that will act as the sending chamber.
The sending chamber containing with subatomic particles protons, neutrons and electrons entangled with the particles in the receiving chamber
The receiving chamber with subatomic particles – protons, neurons and electrons that are entangled with the sending chamber
The scanning device or chamber that acts like a scanner or a fax machine that interacts with the sending chamber and extracts the quantum state of the particles making up the human body to be teleported.
Let’s now apply what has been mentioned so far about the possibilities that quantum mechanics, quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation present us with to the process of creating life.
Could the laws of physics, like quantum mechanics, that govern the universe have been use by ID/ God to create life on earth including humans?
As I mentioned on the outset, the process of the designing and manufacturing the car involves the top-down approach. First an idea for a car, the blueprint, the design of different systems that would make up the car, the parts that would make up the functioning systems, the materials that would be used to manufacture the parts, the elements that the materials would be manufactured from and at the end of top-down method are the subatomic particles that make up the elements that the whole car is made of or built with.
In reality however the whole structure of the car and its function is dependent on the quantum state of the 3 subatomic particles protons, neutrons and electrons. And while in theory today, because of laws of quantum mechanics, the whole car could also be teleported using quantum teleportation method of the 3 chambers mentioned earlier. Scientists have already teleported small pieces of matter. Is it just a matter of time before they teleport bigger, larger ones?
A car to be teleported would have to be scanned in the scanning chamber for the quantum state or the many arrangements of the 3 particles it is made of and reconstructed exactly at the receiving chamber that is entengled with the sending chamber that interacts with the scanning chamber.
???video car teleportation???
Let’s focus now on the creation process of life and humans.
Similarly to the process of the designing and manufacturing the car, the ID/ God comes up with an idea for human life (having already experimented with simpler life forms that had been created before human life); human body and its function.
Starting with a blueprint, first he decides what the human body is going to look like and function, what functional systems are going to be the part of the functioning human, like circulatory system, nervous system, lymphatic system, bones, veins etc. and obviously the reproductive system.
Then he decides what organs are going to be integrated into body systems.
Then he decides on the many different types of tissues that those different organs are going to be made of to perform their many functions.
Then he decides on the many different types of cells (about 200 types of cells) that those tissues are going to be made of.
Then he decides on the many different types of spricialised structures like organelles – organized or specialized structures within the living cell – that the many different types of cells are going to be made of
Then he decides what macromolecules, like carbohydrates, lipids, proteins etc. are going to be used to make up those specialized structures (organelles).
Microelements are made of chemical elements, like carbon, hydrogen, oxygen etc.
The elements, like carbon, hydrogen and oxygen and so on are made of atoms.
Atoms are made of subatomic elements or particles, like protons, neutrons and electrons.
And, as I mentioned earlier, just like a car on subatomic level is made of protons, neutrons and electrons, so is human body and all life on Earth.
Those 3 subatomic particles form all matter in the universe including all known life, like human life.
However, what makes the existence of matter and life possible are the many different quantum states (arrangements) of those 3 subatomic particles or how they interact with each other.
Now, the ID/God has the final blueprint and the design of human body ready.
Now using the same laws of physics that make quantum teleportation possible he encodes (using a big, big efficient quantum computer?) the exact information about the many different quantum states of each of the 3 subatomic particles to form the fundamental elements of the human body like carbon, hydrogen, hydrogen etc. He arranges the many different quantum states of those 3 particles to form a functional human body according to the original blueprint and design.
The process of encoding the information about the many different quantum states into the 3 subatomic particles of life involves foreknowledge and foresight as to how the human body is going to function in the end.
This knowledge requires that the final integration of all systems be encoded in the top-down approach that fully functional human body that is alive is dependent on all functional systems and subsystems that are all present or it can’t function or be alive just like a cell mention earlier.
In other words, the ID/God knows exactly what the entire final quantum state (information) the human body would have to be in for it to function or be alive. So, he encodes this information exactly for the many different quantum states that protons, neurons and electrons would have to be in order to interact with each other to form the many of their quantum states for the elements to form, macromolecules and so on…then the fully functional systems and then he integrates systems to form life and the human body that is alive.
Once all the information about the quantum state of each individual part of the human body is encoded, the process of human creation can begin using the same method that applies to quantum teleportation with one exception of the scanning device or chamber, since no physical human body exists yet to be scanned. It needs to be assembled or materialized first based on the information that has been encoded by ID/God.
In order to create (assemble) the exact human body based on the final quantum state it needs to be in, all the ID/ God needs to do is encode the sending chamber or send the information directly about the quantum state of each of the many particles that the human body is going to be made of.
Just like in quantum teleportation,
the sending chamber (interacts) is encoded with information from the scanning device or chamber about the quantum state of each of the particles the human body to be teleported and reassembled in the receiving chamber,
in human body creation, the sending chamber is encoded directly by ID/God with information about the quantum state of each of the many particles of the human body to be created in the receiving chamber.
The rest of the process of the creation of the human body remains the same as in the quantum teleportation process mentioned earlier.
Based on the information about the quantum state the human body needs to be in to be created, thanks to quantum entanglement, the receiving chamber reconstructs the quantum state of each of the particles based on the information the sending chamber was encoded with or received directly by ID/God.
The human body creation has been accomplished thanks to the possibilities of quantum mechanics, quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation.
So, the process of creation of life, including human life, would involve the already known process that quantum mechanics allows in the quantum teleportation due to quantum entanglement of particles, which is dependent on the information about their many, many quantum states those particles can be arranged into.
(Another possibility would be for ID/God to encode or send the information about the quantum state of each of the particls to form the humand body directly to the receiving/assembling chamber but because scientist can’t do that yet, the more reasonable approach is the use of quantum entagled chambers.)
Use 1 only
Is there evidence or a clue that the process of creation of life (by top-down approach) on Earth including human life that quantum mechanics allows could have been used by ID/God?
Are there any clues that ID/God used the top-down method in the creation of life on Earth, like human life using already existing laws of physics like quantum mechanics?
Let’s see.
The biblical account of creation in the book of genesis tells us that God created life including human life out of the dust of the ground. The Hebrew word for “dust” in Genesis 2:7 is aphar can be translated as clay, earth, mud, ashes, earth, ground, mortar, powder.
How would you describe the process of creation of human life to men few thousand years ago involving quantum mechanics or the many quantum states of subatomic particles forming human body? Would you describe it in the terms physicists use today to explain quantum mechanics? I doubt that.
So, to describe the process of creation that would involve the many quantum states of subatomic particles forming human body to simple man few thousand years ago or even few hundred, the word dust or clay could be appropriately used since all the elements necessary to form human body are available in the ground of the earth. It seem that only 11 major elements are necessary for life.
Wikipedia “Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Only about 0.85% is composed of another five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All 11 are necessary for life. The remaining elements are trace elements, of which more than a dozen are thought on the basis of good evidence to be necessary for life. All of the mass of the trace elements put together (less than 10 grams for a human body) do not add up to the body mass of magnesium, the least common of the 11 non-trace elements.”
All these elements are found in the Earth’s crust.
Now, once all the necessary elements were “formed” (the many quantum states of the subatomic particles have been encoded) into the human body, something would have to be needed to make those elements form a living thing or living human body. The account from genesis definitely implies that.
Other translations ??G, of enesis 2:7
“God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being”.
So, just like the designer of the car tuned on the ignition and applied the source of energy for all the systems to start to function, like to start the engine for the car to function, so did the ID/God to make the human body become alive applied the energy sustained by breathing for human body to function.
And can you tell me the essential difference between the small pieces of opal and the original larger piece which was crushed apart from size?
You misspelled “evidence” there. Got any that supports your group soul existing at all? How exactly does something “immaterial” cause material behaviors?
Because humans have never created even the simplest of life out of non living matter.
Hm.
—
Is an airplaine alive or not?
Have you ever seen humans reverse the state of the planes which flew into the WTC?
What substance are you adding or removing by hitting yourself with a sledge hammer?
But not via evidence. Not properly, anyway.
Glen Davidson
Of course. it’s structure.
So you can’t answer the question, I see, thus try for another useless question.
Glen Davidson
Anyway, above all you’re bringing in an irrelevant aspect, by also shifting to a dead puffer fish. It wasn’t a dead puffer before, it was just knocked out, and you were claiming no material change from knocking its head, presumably because it can heal (repair mechanisms are the real difference between the plane and the fish to this matter, but hardly help your claim of no change of “substance”). But of course the whole point of the recent talk of the football players and concussions is that the latter cause real damage, and it can last. Brains are squashed, neurons stretched, it’s real damage.
Now you’re bringing up the fact of death and its (practical) irreversibility, vs. the plane’s ability to be dissassembled and reassembled. That has no relevance to the issue of the material changes that make it so that something can fly, or not.
Glen Davidson
That’s not an answer to the question asked.
In fact, when you said
You’ve basically just said that yourself.
The reversal of death is strictly a technical issue. Based on pre-technology definitions of death, we already revive dead things, including people.
We currently lack the ability to rebuild cells that have reached a certain level of decomposition, but that is technology, not something magical.
No its not alive.
I am talking about something dying but there being very little difference between its physical constituents before and after death. Rabbits are known to die of fright. A psychological cause with a devastating physical effect on the rabbit.
It always amuses me when people say things like this. Like “most mutations are harmful”. Not all then, just most? But if only a few are needed? What then?
When you say “very little difference” what do you mean? Can you list all those differences? Presumably one of the differences is the fact that the animating spirit has left?
Is there a test you can do to tell the difference between something whose animating spirit has in fact left it, and something that is just not very responsive to the stimuli you are trying?
And yet reality begs to differ:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/synthetic-genome-cell/
So when did it happen?
Presumably the animating force is in the natural cell’s machinery they re-used? Is that where it is Charlie? Would you put on that?
In what way is the structure of the fragments different from the structure of the original opal?
If you were to crush a crystal of copper sulphate and then make a saturated solution of the crushed fragments you will be able to regrow crystals from this solution.
The same crystal?
It was my story and I can assure you that in my story the puffer fish was dead. Fishing is obviously not one of your hobbies. Anglers sometimes use a cudgel called an angler’s “priest” as a means of killing the fish they catch, that is the sort of knock on the head I was talking about.
What I was getting at is that life and death is not something that is determined by the material from which your body is composed. Life and death is happening within your organs as we speak and the death process is keeping you in existence as much as the life process.
So you believe that one day we will be able to create physical life. You are actually agreeing with Steiner here.
Rudolf Steiner, Humankind and the Extra-earthly, Berlin, March 13th, 1917.
This he said almost exactly 100 years ago.
I am not talking about animating spirit, I am talking about etheric forces.
We can tell how strong the etheric forces are in various organisms and even within single organisms. Plants are more tightly bound to the etheric forces demonstrated in the power of cuttings to regenerate. Some amphibians and reptiles can regenerate tails but not heads. Our liver has good regenerative powers but our brains do not.
If this is the result of genetics and all our body cells contain the same genes, why is this a property of the liver but not of the brain?
These scientists has made a lot of progress in their quest to produce life in the lab but they still need already living cells to achieve their results to date. So in reality they have not yet produced life from scratch in the lab. And when it eventually does happen, what will that prove? That life can create life!
If you are nothing but the physical substance that you are composed of are you the same person you were 20 years ago?
Your body is not the same one now as it was then.
For example:
and:
Have you heard of differential gene-expression? Cell-differentiation? Developmental biology? The liver sits in a different environment than the brain, the liver-cells detect each other and their immediate surroundings. They are liver cells and persist as liver cells because of their local internal and external conditions.
The cells that become liver cells do so, because of their unique position in the developing embryo. The local and surrounding cells and conditions basically cause certain gene-expression patterns in those cells, so they go on to become liver-cells. Had they expressed different patterns, they would not have become liver cells.
And the same for the brain of course.
It’s really that simple. You have no idea how sensitive these developmental programs are to certain stimuli. The zygote “knows” it’s a zygote for a few cell divisions, until the surroundings start containing enough “other zygotes”, that cell-cell signaling cause other expression patterns to take over in them, and they stop being zygotes and start down their various differential pathways. The cells that sit in the center of a lump of cells experience a different environment, than cells that sit on the surface and outer layers. Those tiny local differences is enough to change expression patterns in those cells, so that those on the surface become skin, those slightly below become muscle, those at the center become bone and so on. That’s what those 21.000 protein coding genes, and tens of thousands of various regulatory RNAs and enhancer and promoter regions are all for.
Different local extracellular environments cause different combinations of genes to be expressed, and at different levels and timings, of those cells that sit in those environments.
Charlie, you know all this. Why does this have to be explained to you? I don’t understand how that can be necessary. You know these things.
Rumraket,
Yes I know these things and I also know the biology of sex and reproduction, but that doesn’t why I have children and grandchildren.
Damn, OMagain, how could you make such a schoolboy mistake?
If so, then it becomes even more obvious that very physical changes occurred that brought about death.
Your example does not demonstrate this to be so. The fact that you don’t see the physical changes is no more important than if you poisoned the fish with arsenic and you didn’t see the physical changes caused by the arsenic.
Neither “life process” nor “death process” is a meaningful term or concept in this context.
Neither of these terms are meaningful when we are discussing life and death? How do you work that out?
What do they mean?
Whether we are talking about kinesins, myosins and dyneins transporting their cargos along filaments or microtubules, delivery drivers taking their load to and from supermarkets or ants transporting their cargos to and from their nests, the one thing they share is that they display living puposeful activity. When death occurs in any of these living entities the purposeful activity ceases and their material bodies are subject to being decomposed by separate organisms and external forces just like any other piece of non living matter. The thing that has changed with respect to the material is it’s organization. Organelles die, cells die, ants die and species die. But the death of individuals at the lower level does not entail death at the higher level, in fact it is necessary for the continued existence of the higher levels. Death of the parts is necessary to maintain the life of the whole.
The activity of the kinesins, myosins and dyneins are for the benefit of the organism, the ant’s activity for the benefit of the colony and the driver’s activity for the benefit of the community. The parts working in harmony for the benefit of the whole. As Stephen Talbott said, “it is the organism that makes use of its genes, not the other way around”.
Most of us have probably seen the video of the face of a tadpole forming in accordance with a pattern layed down by a bio-electric field.
From youtube
Talking about research on bioelecric fields Daisy Yuhas from Scientific American states that, “much of this bioelectric research would be forgotten in subsequent decades in the rush toward molecular biology and genetics”.
She goes on to say:
Michael Levin is far from clear here. He confidently states that genetics determines the cell’s channels but then he proclaims that we are unclear on how genetics, epigenetics and the bioelectric gradients are intertwined. So how does he know what determines what?
Place iron filings in a magnetic field and it is the field which determines the position of the particles.
I’ve a couple of cats. How do I tell the strongest re:etheric forces?
There is no theory in the world, whether right or wrong, that was agreed upon by all.
My theory gives just a bit of an insight as to “how the God could it”.
I’m probably wrong on some things, but there has to be confirmed experimental evidence to make my theory wrong….right?
There has to be some way of verifying that your “theory” actually happened. You’re just telling a story. How do we know it’s right?
Theories that aren’t useful, as in suggesting lines of research, are not scientific theories.
A growing kitten will have stronger etheric forces than an adult cat. Old age sees the withdrawal of etheric forces, skin becomes less supple, the growth of hair slows down, muscles weaken, etc. If you want to compare the etheric forces at play in your cats look at their whole lives, not just an instant. Barring external influences I wouldn’t expect there to be much difference between them.
What sort of external influence can change the strength of etheric forces?
The wheels of a truck!
Very well. Why does old age sees the withdrawal of etheric forces?
What about very long lived species? Do they live a long time because the withdrawal of etheric forces does not happen as fast? Or do they live a long time because they had more etheric force to begin with? Or…?
Do HeLa or other immortal cell lines operate under different rules re: etheric forces? What are they?
No, the field determines the orientation of the particles; the position of the particles is mostly contingent on where they originally landed.
Understanding the universe requires being aware of the role that contingency and chance play in phenomena. This will help prevent a premature invoking of demons, gods, fairies, leprechauns, and underpants gnomes.
Consciousness depletes the life force. Etheric forces build and maintain the physical body, forces of consciousness use up the life force. Conscious activity uses up a high proportion of bodily energy consumption. We sacrifice life building forces in order to become conscious. The destructive effects of consciousness is counteracted by sleep which restores the balance somewhat.
The etheric is much more complex than the physical and it is never static. Anything that is alive has etheric forces within it. The etheric forces in a deciduous tree are not in the wood of the trunk which is dead. It is much more active in the growing tips.
The etheric is the polar opposite of the physical. Our bodies are built by the physical forces radiating outwards from the centre and the etheric forces condensing inwards from the periphery. The longer an organism can keep these forces in balance the longer it will survive.
No they don’t operate under different rules. In HeLa cells the balance between destructive physical forces and form building etheric forces is maintained artificially by human interference.
I think you are trying to make an argument just for the sake of it.
We know that if we take some fine particles and scatter them then chance plays a role in determining where each particle will land. But scientists do not set up the iron filing experiment to determine the role of chance in how particles will land, they set it up to demonstrate the reality of magnetic fields. And these experiments demonstrate that they do exist even although we do not see them.
As each individual filing becomes a magnet in the field it will attract other filings. Some filings will move position and some will just rotate, It all depends on which force is the strongest, friction or magnetic attraction.
What are the units of etheric force and life force? How are they measured?
A similar question for Charlie: how do you know anything about them, including that they even exist?
I was trying to see if you understood more than just “the field determines the position of the particles”, and apparently you do.
Iron filings serve as a reliable, repeatable indicator of the presence of a magnetic field.
So, tell me, what serves as a reliable, repeatable indicator of these “etheric forces” of yours?
I make few points in the post that make my theory plausible… I’m not saying it happened like that but quantum mechanics and quantum entanglement make the act of creation more realistic in scientific terms, which was exactly my main point of the post.
How many other theories about how ID/God could it that included real science have you heard before? Give me few examples…
On the other hand, the opposite view (bottom-up) faces the same problem my theory faces; how do you verify that abiogenesis happened if scientists can’t produce one piece of evidence not only that it did happen, but also that peruaded them to believe that it did happen? Until that actually happens, aren’t they just telling a story? How you know it happened?
Actually, abiogenesis and the origins of life face multiple problems we already know about. Many chicken and egg paradoxesbefore the simplest of cells can even form… By just saying that it’s just happened without being able of verifying it doesn’t make it true, does it? How do you know that scientists are not just telling a story? How do you know it’s right?
Scientists can’t reassemble a living cell. What makes you think random processes produced all the necessary parts of a cell and then assembled them into a living cell ? How did the random process resolved the many chicken and egg paradoxes-that all components of a living cell have to be present as they are interdependent of each other-to form the simplest cell?
There has to be a way of verifying that abiogenesis actually happened otherwise it’s just a story much worst than mine in my view because for now we have too much evidence that abiogenesis couldn’t have happened but quantum creation is still a possibility until proven otherwise….
IMO physics is ideally suited to a science of quantities, a science of measure, number and weight. But there is a complimentary qualitative way of science which involves using the ‘senses’ to study the world around us, closely examining nature and understanding what it reveals to us. When we use mathematics to model nature we are in danger of taking the models for reality. As Owen Barfield writes in Saving the Appearances “Our collective representations were born when man begins to take his models-his representations-literally.”
David Lavery writes:
I believe that modern science takes us to a certain level of understanding and we could not have our current technology without it, but Goethean science takes us from there to a higher level of understanding.
From the book Goethe’s Way of Science: A Phenomenology of Nature
and:
Of course he does not just rely on the outer senses but also the “more subtle perceptual capacity” which the mind affords us.
Anyone can know of them through their effects.
They are the form building forces of life. Genomes supply the basic material, this material is arranged by the formative forces coming from the etheric realm.
Again, how do you know this? How do you know that the formative forces come from the etheric realm, whatever that is? (I’m presuming that it’s something other than the four known forces.) How do you know these “formative forces” aren’t just chemical and physical (including electrical) interactions among cells?
Now of course the study of how this material is arranged is called developmental biology, and I don’t recall any papers in the field that appealed to “etheric force” or “life force”. Do you know so much more than the developmental biologists?
It is no doubt true that developmental biologists know much more than I do in their specific area of expertise, but generally they suffer from the same limitation as do most modern scientific thinkers. They focus on a one-sided, reductionist, materialistic, Euclidian way of thinking that finds it difficult to even entertain the fact that there may be another dimension that they haven’t considered. A look at projective geometry gives us some idea of this other dimension.
Here is an excerpt from George Adams Kaufmann’s, Space and Counter-Space
For a more detailed account see here. (although the quality of this copy makes reading difficult).
Our childhood development, our physical senses and our education all condition us to think that the reality of the world around us can be found in Euclidean space. Our growth is an expansion outwards into the familiar three dimensions, we see and feel the space around us as three dimensional, we feel the gravity holding us to the earth, pulling us towards it’s centre.
Goethean science takes account of the, all but forgotten, opposite pole, the planar pole, working in from the periphery as Euclidean space works out from the centre. This pole is the etheric.
There are many examples which demonstrate the effects of this inward acting pole. To take but one, look at how a butterfly forms in the chrysalis. The form of the, yet to develop, wings are seen on the surface of the chrysalis like a jelly mould which gives the jelly it’s set shape.
CharlieM,
So you not only have no way of measuring these “forces” you assert exist, you can’t even define them operationally. I’m reminded of a Heinlein quote:
If it can’t be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion.
You are writing literal nonsense.
You can express colour all you want in the way of frequency and wavelength but it will not give you the experience and the reality of the colour red. Etheric forces are living forces and if you try to treat them as objects in the way of physics you kill them.
Goethean science deals with phenomena but leaves the mathematising of phenomena to conventional science. To use the mind as an organ of sense was the method that Goethe used. He didn’t want to use his mind to invent a speculative world behind the world of experience.
CharlieM,
Charlie, that bit of word salad and the quoted, second-hand bit of word salad don’t even seem intended to offer evidence. They just make claims, and unintelligible claims at that. I will just take it all as an admission that you have no evidence and in fact reject the very notion of evidence. Correct?
Color is not killed by defining and measuring it. Your concept of “etheric forces” is still literal nonsense — you can’t define it and you can’t measure it.