Since scientists have not been able to prove or even logically explain the origins of life (abiogenesis) by natural, unguided, gradual processes often referred to as the bottom-up approach, it is conceivable to imply that the process of life origins on Earth could be scientifically explained by the design and creation process often referred to as the top-down approach.The top-down approach is sometimes used by scientists in attempts of recreation of small life forms, like a eukaryotic cell.
I will however apply the top-down approach to the process of the designing and creating of human life Intelligent Designer or God (ID/God) could have used.
In other words, the top-down approach is the only conceivable way of the designing and creating life as even in case of the simplest of cells all organelles and functional structures of a cell have to be present, and at the same time, as they are mutually interdependent, including the cell membrane, for it to function or be alive or stay alive. Without the cell membrane or one of the structures or organelles, the cell stops functioning and eventually dies.
In an attempt to explain how the process of the designing and creating of life could have been achieved by ID/God, I will use the illustration some naturalistic, evolutionary scientists often use to try to explain the process of evolution of life often called descent with modifications, where they refer to an “evolution” or change of one model of the car over the many years.
Since this process itself doesn’t explain how the original car appeared in the first place by slow, unguided processes, (bottom-up) I will use it as an example of what kind of planning, engineering, integration and manufacturing would be necessary for a car to “appear” in the first place, before it could go through the further gradual processes of “descent with modification” or changes over time.
Then I will apply the same methods and principles to the process of the designing and creating of life.
The designer comes up with a general idea and structure for a car and its function
- The designer decides what functional systems would be necessary for the car to work according to the design
- Then the designer decides how the individual parts need to work and be integrated into functional systems and functional systems into functional car
- The designer decides what materials need to be manufactured, such as steel, aluminum, copper, plastic, electrical wires, fabrics etc. for the individual parts to be manufactured he is going to use in order for the functional systems to be assembled, such as an engine, transmission, chassis the body/frame, source of energy and so on
- Once the design has been experimented with the integration of all the individual parts into systems and systems into the functional car, the final blueprint of the car is ready. The final manufacturing process of all the parts can begin
Then, all the parts can be assembled into functional systems and the functional systems into a functional car - The car has been assembled and is ready to function according to the design
Then the designer turns on the ignition, puts into the first gear, then he puts his foot on the accelerator and the car moves - The idea for a car has become reality. It functions according to the initial idea and the design
Let’s look closer at the materials, such as steel, copper, fabrics, wires etc. They are made of smaller elements; really tiny pieces of stuff. Actually, on subatomic level, they are made up of 3 ingredients: protons, neutrons and electrons.
As a matter fact, as far as we know, the whole matter in the universe is made of protons, neutrons and electrons.
The same applies to life, including human body. Life and human body on subatomic level is made of 3 ingredients: protons, neutrons and electrons.
And this is very important information because on this very fact my whole theory as to How ID/God created life is based.
Just like the car, human body is made of or built of many functional systems, like circulatory system, nervous system, lymphatic system, bones, veins, and so on.
Human body systems are made of integrated organs.
Those organs are made of different types of tissues.
Tissues are made of different types of cells (about 200 types of cells).
Cells are made of different organelles – organized or specialized structures within the living cell. Most types of cells share the same organelles or specialized structures within a living cells but other cells do not. Some of the organelles carry DNA, which is necessary for the process of reproduction of the living organism that non-living things, like a cars, don’t obviously have.
Organelles are made of macromolecules, like carbohydrates, lipids, amino acids, proteins and so on.
Macromolecules are made of chemical elements, like carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and so on.
Chemical elements are made of atoms.
Atoms are made of subatomic elements like protons, neutrons and electrons.
And, as I mentioned earlier, just like the car, on subatomic level is made of protons, neutrons and electrons, so is human body and all life on the Earth.
(Quarks are, as far as we know, the smallest pieces of stuff. There are 6 different types of quarks, and different combinations produce different types of subatomic particles like protons. For simplicity and clarity, I’ll focus on the 3 ingredients or building blocks of all matter: protons, neutrons and electrons as it is just easier to follow what I’m trying to convey.)
If I missed a step or more in the structure of what the human body and life is made of, feel free to correct it but this is not really that important now…
Life and human body on subatomic level are built of only 3 ingredients: protons, neutrons and electrons. While this might be mind-boggling if you think about how complex human body is, especially human brain, this is actually true as far as science has revealed it so far.
While the composition of life and human body is based on the 3 subatomic elements protons, neutrons and electrons, how life and human body function is based on how the three elemental building blocks of life (protons, neutrons and electrons) interact with each other or what their quantum state is; what their interactions or relations are.
Quantum state is simply something that encodes or translates the state of a system; how protons, neutrons and electrons interact with each other to form a state of a system. Behind each quantum state is the information that expresses the quantum state of the subatomic particles.
Here is the most interesting part about quantum state and quantum mechanics (science that is a part of physics) that deals with the mathematical description of the motion and interaction of subatomic particles.
According to quantum mechanics any quantum state of protons, neutrons and electrons that form a system or systems can be transferred or teleported due to quantum entanglement (predicament of subatomic particles) from one place to another, without traveling through any physical medium.
Scientists have already successfully teleported photons, which are particles of light as well as small pieces of matter across a short distance.
And this is the most essential part of my theory.
Since scientists have successfully teleported particles and small pieces of matter, who says that humans could not be teleported in the future? While human teleportation is still in theory today, it may very well become reality in the future. It has not been proven wrong at least mathematically.
Let’s just focus on the possibilities of human teleportation.
Since a picture is worth a thousand words here are some videos that explain how quantum teleportation of humans could work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI
I personally like this video at 40 minute mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z8Ma2YT8vY
So, human teleportation in theory seems possible. Whether it will be possible in the future it remains to be seen.
NEXT
So you may wonder; how does human teleportation, whether possible or not in the future, relate to the theme of my post: How did the ID/God create life?
Well, I think it does.
As you may recall on the outset of my post, just like any car is built in the top-down process starting with an idea/design, blueprint etc. all the way down to the elements that are made of subatomic particles, so could human body starting with its blueprint all the way down to the elements that are made subatomic particles; protons, neurons and electrons.
How that could have been done in reality by ID/God, the possibility of human quantum teleportation sheds some light on that.
For human body to be teleported–transferred from one place to another, without actually traveling through any physical medium–the quantum state of each of the subatomic particles that make up the human body to be teleported would have to be extracted (scanned or analyzed) and then teleported or sent exactly to the designated location where the human body is supposed to “arrive” and to be reassembled.
In quantum teleportation, the subatomic particles that make up the original human body are NOT literary sent. No. It’s the information about their quantum state that is sent thanks to the laws of quantum mechanics called quantum entanglement.
Wikipedia–Quantum entanglement is a physical phenomenon that occurs when pairs or groups of particles are generated or interact in ways such that the quantum state of each particle cannot be described independently of the others, even when the particles are separated by a large distance—instead, a quantum state must be described.
QE video link???
For human quantum teleportation to happen, 2 entangled chambers containing subatomic particles, protons, neutrons and electrons are needed. The first chamber will act as a “sending chamber” and the second as a” receiving or reassembling chamber”.
Then, a third chamber will be needed that will act as a body scanner or fax machine that will be interacting with the “sending chamber”, while compering the quantum states of each particle that the human body to be teleported is made of.
The process of quantum teleportation involves the scanning or extracting the quantum state of each of the subatomic particles (protons, neurons and electrons) that the body to be teleported is made of and sending it to the receiving chamber that is entangled with the sending chamber.
Because the particles in the “sending chamber” are entangled with the particles in the “receiving chamber”, the “receiving chamber” reads the quantum state of each particles that was extracted from the human body in the scanning chamber and reassembles it into the exact quantum state or the exact human body composition that it was before being teleported.
In quantum teleportation, the subatomic particles that make up the original human body are not sent. It’s the information about their quantum state that is sent thanks to the laws of quantum mechanics called quantum entanglement.
Since according to quantum mechanics, life on the subatomic level equals the quantum state of each the subatomic particles that make up the life form, there should be no difference between the human body that was alive in the scanning chamber and the reassembled human body that is now alive in the receiving chamber.
Since according to quantum mechanics you can’t create 2 exactly the same quantum states of an object, in quantum teleportation you can’t teleport an object without destroying in the process.
Actually, you can’t extract the quantum state of the object to be teleported without destroying it in the process of scanning it.
While there may be some philosophical implications (depending on one’s beliefs on soul and consciousness) that would have to be answered about the process of human quantum teleportation (I can try to answer them later) let’s just focus on the implications that the possibility of human quantum teleportation presents us with when it comes to the process of creation of human life.
While still in theory, human quantum teleportation seems possible, could the human quantum teleportation be done by the ID/God who created the universe and physical laws that govern quantum mechanics and make human quantum teleportation seem possible?
Let’s just ponder this for a moment: Scientist have already teleported small pieces of matter. Could the creator of matter and the physical laws that make quantum teleportation possible teleport bigger pieces of matter?
How about quantum teleportation of a piece of matter that is alive? Is it possible? Would it be feasible for ID/God who knows every detail about quantum mechanics and quantum entanglement that make quantum teleportation possible, including human teleportation?
And if ID/God is able to teleport matter that is alive, like human body, could he have used the same method, the laws that govern quantum mechanics that he created, like quantum entanglement to create life in the top-down approach rather than bottom-up, like abiogenesis or evolution?
Without answering this question now, let’s assume that ID/God could use the physical laws of quantum mechanics, like quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation to create life on Earth, including humans.
Let’s see how that could have been accomplished considering what we have discussed so far about quantum mechanics, quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation.
As I said before, according to quantum mechanics, life on subatomic level equals the many quantum states of subatomic particles-protons, neurons and electrons.
In other words, the composition of life is dependent on the information about the many different quantum states of the particles that form the life form, including human life.
As I mentioned earlier, for human quantum teleportation to happen, 2 chambers with entangled particles protons, neutrons and electrons are needed, as well as a scanning device or chamber that compares the quantum state of particles making up the human body to be teleported with the particles found in one of the entangled chambers that will act as the sending chamber.
The sending chamber containing with subatomic particles protons, neutrons and electrons entangled with the particles in the receiving chamber
The receiving chamber with subatomic particles – protons, neurons and electrons that are entangled with the sending chamber
The scanning device or chamber that acts like a scanner or a fax machine that interacts with the sending chamber and extracts the quantum state of the particles making up the human body to be teleported.
Let’s now apply what has been mentioned so far about the possibilities that quantum mechanics, quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation present us with to the process of creating life.
Could the laws of physics, like quantum mechanics, that govern the universe have been use by ID/ God to create life on earth including humans?
As I mentioned on the outset, the process of the designing and manufacturing the car involves the top-down approach. First an idea for a car, the blueprint, the design of different systems that would make up the car, the parts that would make up the functioning systems, the materials that would be used to manufacture the parts, the elements that the materials would be manufactured from and at the end of top-down method are the subatomic particles that make up the elements that the whole car is made of or built with.
In reality however the whole structure of the car and its function is dependent on the quantum state of the 3 subatomic particles protons, neutrons and electrons. And while in theory today, because of laws of quantum mechanics, the whole car could also be teleported using quantum teleportation method of the 3 chambers mentioned earlier. Scientists have already teleported small pieces of matter. Is it just a matter of time before they teleport bigger, larger ones?
A car to be teleported would have to be scanned in the scanning chamber for the quantum state or the many arrangements of the 3 particles it is made of and reconstructed exactly at the receiving chamber that is entengled with the sending chamber that interacts with the scanning chamber.
???video car teleportation???
Let’s focus now on the creation process of life and humans.
Similarly to the process of the designing and manufacturing the car, the ID/ God comes up with an idea for human life (having already experimented with simpler life forms that had been created before human life); human body and its function.
Starting with a blueprint, first he decides what the human body is going to look like and function, what functional systems are going to be the part of the functioning human, like circulatory system, nervous system, lymphatic system, bones, veins etc. and obviously the reproductive system.
Then he decides what organs are going to be integrated into body systems.
Then he decides on the many different types of tissues that those different organs are going to be made of to perform their many functions.
Then he decides on the many different types of cells (about 200 types of cells) that those tissues are going to be made of.
Then he decides on the many different types of spricialised structures like organelles – organized or specialized structures within the living cell – that the many different types of cells are going to be made of
Then he decides what macromolecules, like carbohydrates, lipids, proteins etc. are going to be used to make up those specialized structures (organelles).
Microelements are made of chemical elements, like carbon, hydrogen, oxygen etc.
The elements, like carbon, hydrogen and oxygen and so on are made of atoms.
Atoms are made of subatomic elements or particles, like protons, neutrons and electrons.
And, as I mentioned earlier, just like a car on subatomic level is made of protons, neutrons and electrons, so is human body and all life on Earth.
Those 3 subatomic particles form all matter in the universe including all known life, like human life.
However, what makes the existence of matter and life possible are the many different quantum states (arrangements) of those 3 subatomic particles or how they interact with each other.
Now, the ID/God has the final blueprint and the design of human body ready.
Now using the same laws of physics that make quantum teleportation possible he encodes (using a big, big efficient quantum computer?) the exact information about the many different quantum states of each of the 3 subatomic particles to form the fundamental elements of the human body like carbon, hydrogen, hydrogen etc. He arranges the many different quantum states of those 3 particles to form a functional human body according to the original blueprint and design.
The process of encoding the information about the many different quantum states into the 3 subatomic particles of life involves foreknowledge and foresight as to how the human body is going to function in the end.
This knowledge requires that the final integration of all systems be encoded in the top-down approach that fully functional human body that is alive is dependent on all functional systems and subsystems that are all present or it can’t function or be alive just like a cell mention earlier.
In other words, the ID/God knows exactly what the entire final quantum state (information) the human body would have to be in for it to function or be alive. So, he encodes this information exactly for the many different quantum states that protons, neurons and electrons would have to be in order to interact with each other to form the many of their quantum states for the elements to form, macromolecules and so on…then the fully functional systems and then he integrates systems to form life and the human body that is alive.
Once all the information about the quantum state of each individual part of the human body is encoded, the process of human creation can begin using the same method that applies to quantum teleportation with one exception of the scanning device or chamber, since no physical human body exists yet to be scanned. It needs to be assembled or materialized first based on the information that has been encoded by ID/God.
In order to create (assemble) the exact human body based on the final quantum state it needs to be in, all the ID/ God needs to do is encode the sending chamber or send the information directly about the quantum state of each of the many particles that the human body is going to be made of.
Just like in quantum teleportation,
the sending chamber (interacts) is encoded with information from the scanning device or chamber about the quantum state of each of the particles the human body to be teleported and reassembled in the receiving chamber,
in human body creation, the sending chamber is encoded directly by ID/God with information about the quantum state of each of the many particles of the human body to be created in the receiving chamber.
The rest of the process of the creation of the human body remains the same as in the quantum teleportation process mentioned earlier.
Based on the information about the quantum state the human body needs to be in to be created, thanks to quantum entanglement, the receiving chamber reconstructs the quantum state of each of the particles based on the information the sending chamber was encoded with or received directly by ID/God.
The human body creation has been accomplished thanks to the possibilities of quantum mechanics, quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation.
So, the process of creation of life, including human life, would involve the already known process that quantum mechanics allows in the quantum teleportation due to quantum entanglement of particles, which is dependent on the information about their many, many quantum states those particles can be arranged into.
(Another possibility would be for ID/God to encode or send the information about the quantum state of each of the particls to form the humand body directly to the receiving/assembling chamber but because scientist can’t do that yet, the more reasonable approach is the use of quantum entagled chambers.)
Use 1 only
Is there evidence or a clue that the process of creation of life (by top-down approach) on Earth including human life that quantum mechanics allows could have been used by ID/God?
Are there any clues that ID/God used the top-down method in the creation of life on Earth, like human life using already existing laws of physics like quantum mechanics?
Let’s see.
The biblical account of creation in the book of genesis tells us that God created life including human life out of the dust of the ground. The Hebrew word for “dust” in Genesis 2:7 is aphar can be translated as clay, earth, mud, ashes, earth, ground, mortar, powder.
How would you describe the process of creation of human life to men few thousand years ago involving quantum mechanics or the many quantum states of subatomic particles forming human body? Would you describe it in the terms physicists use today to explain quantum mechanics? I doubt that.
So, to describe the process of creation that would involve the many quantum states of subatomic particles forming human body to simple man few thousand years ago or even few hundred, the word dust or clay could be appropriately used since all the elements necessary to form human body are available in the ground of the earth. It seem that only 11 major elements are necessary for life.
Wikipedia “Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Only about 0.85% is composed of another five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All 11 are necessary for life. The remaining elements are trace elements, of which more than a dozen are thought on the basis of good evidence to be necessary for life. All of the mass of the trace elements put together (less than 10 grams for a human body) do not add up to the body mass of magnesium, the least common of the 11 non-trace elements.”
All these elements are found in the Earth’s crust.
Now, once all the necessary elements were “formed” (the many quantum states of the subatomic particles have been encoded) into the human body, something would have to be needed to make those elements form a living thing or living human body. The account from genesis definitely implies that.
Other translations ??G, of enesis 2:7
“God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being”.
So, just like the designer of the car tuned on the ignition and applied the source of energy for all the systems to start to function, like to start the engine for the car to function, so did the ID/God to make the human body become alive applied the energy sustained by breathing for human body to function.
I’m not sure that’s the best way of thinking about consciousness, but I do think that cognition is deeply tied up with prediction.
I don’t know if there is a best way. But I think consciousness is a servant rather than a master.
However, “seeing the future,” or at least seeing and cataloging consequences, affects decisions. So deciding is an iterative loop. It may be true that decisions are made before you are aware of them being made, but your awareness of the situation is part of the causal loop.
Could you list for me the complete set of physical properties of matter?
I alluded to the work of Douglas Hofstadter earlier, but this loop idea is very strong with him. You should check his latest out.
Given the physical properties of matter, CharlieM, could you demonstrate this sort of pattern is expected from water.
Sad day for you, I don’t. I was a believer once, I was never concerned with any judgement. If something were to ever convince me there was a life after death, I would still not have any of these silly concerns. The whole thing seems to me childish and pathetic. The people who constantly bother me about judgement and afterlives appear to me like children who still haven’t let go of the Santa story.
Ooooh. Purdy.
Yes. The building of a termite mound, a wasps nest, the migratory habits of monarch butterflies, eels, arctic terns, salmon; all these activities are demonstrations of the wisdom of the group and not of the individuals within the group. Instinctive activity has it’s source in the group whereas learning by example shows the wisdom of the individual. Evolution is a process through which intelligence condenses from the group to the individual. Within life on earth individual intelligence is furthest advanced in the abilities of individual humans to learn, but in doing so we lose the group intelligence. And the group intelligence of lower organisms is far superior to the individual intelligence demonstrated by humans.
You’d need to be a masochist to like that idea and I’m no masochist.
Seeing contradictions doesn’t lead me to believe anything. Resolving contradictions or realising that they are more apparent than real leads me to amend my beliefs or to form new beliefs.
You are confusing instinctive reactions with self awareness. All creatures have consciousness to some degree but in order to be aware of oneself in relation to the outside world requires the possession of an ego. A dog chases it’s tail because it does not distinguish it from the rest of the world. Do you think that a modern driverless vehicle is self aware purely because it can respond to it’s environment?
Creatures with central nervous systems are definitely more aware but this does not mean they have much in the way of self awareness. Even humans have limited self awareness. We have no self awareness while in deep sleep. Think of breathing, most of the time we are unconscious of our breathing but with very little mental effort we can become conscious of our breathing and regulate it to a certain extent. Do you think a lion could do this? The self awareness I am talking about involves knowing one’s history, knowing one’s existence through time.
Anyone who drives will know how self awareness can come and go. Who hasn’t driven along a regular route and realised at the end of the journey that they can’t remember the slightest thing about it. But if we make the effort we can concentrate on our actions throughout the journey.
Shouldn’t you be saying, “The processes in this vicinity claim to have a pretty good understanding of consciousness”.
Shouldn’t you be saying, “this old alligator brain has decided it likes them”.
Thank you for sharing this. It demonstrates the wisdom inherent in the design.
Matter void of life does nothing of itself. It only displays activity when acted upon by an outside force or process. Living substance is active from within. Take the puffer fish, give it a sharp knock on the head and observe the difference before and after. The physical substances do not change but the latter has lost something that the former had. That is the life principle, it is not the property of matter, it is that which animates matter.
Of course they change.
That’s the whole point of the blow to the head.
Glen Davidson
GlenDavidson,
So tell us the difference in the quantity of the elements and compounds composing the puffer fish before and after.
Tell me why you changed the goalposts.
Glen Davidson
I don’t care whether or not this position is masochistic and, if so, whether the fact that it appeals to you anyhow makes you a masochist. The point is you like it, and you have no other reason for endorsing it besides the fact that you like it.
You first suggested that you actually DO have a reason, namely, that this apparently ridiculous view resolves some contradictions that you’ve perceived. But it turns out you can’t name a single one of these alleged contradictions.
The point is, as I’ve said before, the views that you spout here, you spout simply because they are congenial to you. Mazel tov.
Attention!!!
I’m not sure what happened by I had saved the draftof this post and <wasn't going to publish it until later. Then something come up, I didn't get to it until today.
The post was only edited until the word NEXT appearing about half way through the post…
Anybody knows why the draft was posted?
Anyway, most probably got the gist of it; what I was trying to convey…
I will be editing it later today and I will publish the final copy with some added material with some additional ideas..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okmkn30D0NU
I don’t know if this matters much, but there’s no evidence for this distinction between “matter” and “life” as drawn here, or the idea that “matter” is always “acted on from without” or that “the life principle” is “not a property of matter.”
Just saying, in case it matters to have one’s beliefs based on empirical evidence. If not, then keep on rockin’.
Why would I be saying that?
You did say, in an earlier message, ‘I have my post: “How did the Designer/God do it? How was life created?” ready …’
CharlieM:
keiths:
CharlieM:
Judging by that response, the concept of a supporting argument is alien to you.
Perhaps it will help if I describe how a more disciplined thinker might approach the question of a “group soul”.
The group soul concept has passed the CharlieM “Me like!” test, which, along with the lack of any obvious inconsistencies, was enough to earn a CharlieM “Me believe!”. But a critical thinker would actually try to figure out whether it was true before granting it credence.
CharlieM:
Glen:
CharlieM:
Seriously, Charlie? You think that the chemical composition tells you all there is to know about the physical state of an object?
By your goofy reasoning, airplanes must be alive.
An airplane can fly. Disassemble it, and the pile of parts will no longer fly despite having the same chemical composition.
As you put it:
Watch this video. The macaque puts it’s hand over the light no matter if it is over it’s body or on the balls. To me this demonstrates that it understands reflective images not that it understands they are shining on itself. It knows where to put its hand so that it will cover the light no matter where the light is.
I’m not saying that it doesn’t have some self recognition, only that IMO this experiment is ambiguous.
I see no reason why higher animals would not show signs of rudimentary self awareness. But if anyone thinks this is anywhere near to human self consciousness they are deluded.
I’ve run out of time for the moment.
Charlie,
When we create a fully artificial yeast genome at what point will the scientists insert the élan vital in order to make it alive instead of just chemicals in a bag?
And despite giving me that list of the physical properties of matter you failed to demonstrate how we can get from that list and water to the image I posted.
What’s the evidence for your claim that the “physical substances do not change”?
What was that experiment with macaques about?
The thing is that suggests that self-awareness evolved
Do you believe that there is any empirical evidence for just one grain of sand on any of the world’s beaches or deserts to suddenly move of it’s own volition and not because of an external force?
CharlieM, to KN:
Charlie,
Do you somehow believe that life is analogous to grains of sand moving of “their own volition”? If so, where did you get that idea?
No. But that’s also not a great example for our discussion.
Sand is mostly composed of silica arranged in extremely stable lattices. As such it is not going to react with its environment.
Contrast that with a highly reactive element, such as oxygen. Oxygen has two ’empty’ orbital positions to give away, which allows it form chemicals such as ozone, carbon dioxide, and water.
Water seems to be super-stable, but in fact it’s highly complex, which is why it’s an excellent solvent. In water, the two hydrogen atoms are so small in relation to the oxygen atom that the hydrogen electrons are ‘pulled’ towards the oxygen atom. This gives the oxygen atom a weak negative charge and the two hydrogen atoms a weak positive charge (this is why water can conduct electricity). Some percentage of those hydrogen atoms become free protons, which in turn react with other hydrogen atoms to form trace amounts of deuterium and tritium. And there are naturally occurring oxygen isotopes, too. All of these can combine to form molecules different from standard H2O.
The point of this brief foray into chemistry is to show that “matter” isn’t “passive” or “inert.” Depending on their quantum mechanical properties (how ’empty’ or ‘filled’ their electron orbitals are), some atoms will be highly reactive with other atoms and with particles such as protons and electrons. Chemistry is all about the transfer of energy. Biology is about exploiting the transfer of energy to resist entropy.
Very pure water is a poor conductor of electricity.
Glen Davidson
True, so perhaps it’s not the best example. The point I was trying to make is that “matter” is not “passive” or “inert” as CharlieM takes it to be, so it doesn’t need to have something else added to it — “the vital principle” — in order to get life. I only chose water because it’s pretty much the only thing I remember from my college chemistry course from over twenty years ago.
Oh quite, and it is the polarity of water that makes it so good at dissolving ions, which thereby causes the aqueous solution to be a good conductor (typical for water found in nature).
I suppose one could look at the sun for something that manages quite well to operate according to its own causation. It started fusion without external causation (save its formation, etc.), it’ll undergo the helium flash according to its own physics and condition, and fusion will finally fade away with the loss of fuel.
“Volition” could be seen to be the “difference” between animal internal causation and solar internal causation, but there’s nothing more than assumption to back up any claim that volition is something more than chemical causation. Of course systems can run via internal causation, and animal life that includes “volition” seems to be one of many, albeit one of more interest to us than most others.
Glen Davidson
Charlie needs to spend less time reading Steiner and more time reading science.
Well, physical causation. I may have fallen for the UD pretense that the brain is all chemistry, when it’s that and a good deal more.
I ran into one of those glitches where I can’t edit that comment, something that happens sometimes when a comment appears after the comment I’m trying to edit.
Glen Davidson
Bingo.
Not quite.
Yes in a similar way that egos, the ideal triangle and emotions are immaterial entities.
It takes a lot of drill practice and much individual effort for a squad of soldiers to be able to march as a unit, yet flock of starlings can put on a stunning display with ease, their coordination comes naturally.
I’d like to know how you explain the construction of a termite mound from anything that exists within an individual termite?
Can the hair on the barber shop floor be explained without reference to the human being from whence it came?
Yes. learning can be explained from within the individual but instinctive behaviour such as migratory behaviour cannot.
We can study individual vertebrates from those that share the most ancient forms, fish through amphibiams, up to more recent forms such as mammals with the human form being one of the most recent.
If you were to compose a biography of selected individuals from each group you will find a trend. Some key points that are interesting about an individual European eel is that it begins it’s life in the Saragasso Sea, migrates to a river where it spends it’s early life, and then returns to the Saragasso Sea to spawn. These interesting facts are true of the group as a whole. On the contrary human biographies are interesting because of the unique deeds of the individual.
And some people might dismiss it out of hand without giving it a further thought because of a bias towards materialism.
You are forgetting one important difference, an aircraft can be reassembled and returned to service, it’s state is reversible. No amount of maintenance will bring back the life of a dead puffer fish.
Crush an opal and try to remake it as it was.
Glen Davidson
What’s the evidence for your claim that “no amount of maintenance will bring back the life of a dead puffer fish”?
You cannot use as an argument something like this which has not yet been achieved.
There are two polar opposite forces which act on matter, the physical, point-wise, radial forces and the etheric, living, circumferential planar forces. (See here if you want a more detailed account.) Crystals lie somewhere in between amorphous dust and plants in the way that the etheric forces act on them. The way they grow is governed by the balance of etheric and physical forces. The annual rhythm of concentration and withdrawal of etheric forces can be seen in spring budding and autumnal shedding of leaves in deciduous trees.
What I meant was that by giving the puffer fish a knock on the head you are not adding or removing any physical substance from it in any substantial way. It may shed a few scales which is incidental.
A self recognition test.
Yes that’s true.
I can see your point. But we don’t see oxygen molecules moving around in search of hydrogen molecules to capture.
Of course it could be argued that what we see as the physical sun is part of a living entity.
And how would you know how I spend my time?