Comments that seem to me to be in violation of the game rules will be moved here, and closed to further comment. Do not regard having your post moved here as a reprimand, merely as a referee’s whistle. 🙂
Feel free to comment on them at any other peanut gallery of your choice.
Gregory,
Hoping this can end it for this thread. Noyau is for rule-relaxed spats.
Gregory,
Despite hotshoe_’s self-identification as “rude, mean, and insulting”, I saw none of that in the comment you are referencing. Here it is again, for your convenience:
Rather than spewing invective, how about explaining, with reference to specific quotes, what you find objectionable about this arguably pretty post?
If we’re really going to have a conversation about varieties of ‘design/Design’, patrick, that’s best for another more concentrated thread. As for an even playing field of communication (since you have repeatedly shown yourself as an anti-religious atheist too), first tell what you interpret as “spewing invective” in my comment: http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/baby-or-vat/comment-page-1/#comment-75198
Right now, this place feels very, very unfriendly; it feels like a loud, angry, mean, rude, insulting (and rather PROUD of it!) den of anti-religious atheists (not mere ‘skeptics’) ready to chomp at any hint of (natural) theology.
Oh for Maude’s sake, Gregory, if you continue to have problems with my comment, either take them back to the Natural Religion thread where I said that, or take it to Noyau.
Or even start a new thread. I’d be happy to talk about mind-expanding drugs for a while.
You are capable of participating in a responsible way. That is, I think you are. You could prove that you are.
If you aren’t, then at least don’t derail this specific thread about baby-saving morals with your endless horrified fascination with me.
Whatever one thinks about the ethics of abortion, I find it extraordinary that anyone can compare the moral issues raised with the issue of whether one finds a piece of writing “pretty”, I did think it was a rather lovely post, and the one following it too. Is Gregory shocked because someone said balls?
Lol! 😉 🙂 Your views of ‘design’ are filtered through apostasy, Lizzie. Canadians laugh rather well compared with stiff, haughty USAmericans, thank you very much. 😉
‘Tripping balls’ and doing ‘acid’ may set a standard of ‘pretty’ for you, Lizzie. But most people would disagree (not having done acid and rejecting the desire). I’m simply surprised at how far you will go to defend atheism against theism to ignore the beauty and ‘pretty’ in a theistic worldview. You must have been really badly damaged mentally (cognitively) by reading Dennett’s “Freedom Evolves” to have leapt from religious faith in your 50s into such a chaos of aesthetics, politics, ethics, metaphysics and even ontology as ‘skepticism’ provides you now.
So, I responded to Lizzie and then got blamed by her for it. This is a moderation joke!
Lizzie gets to derail, but others can’t? Resist the urge. And don’t rub it in as a Moderator after you’ve guano’d yourself as if you were not an instigator.
Another notch.
One more thread shitted up by Gregory.
Alan Fox,
For goodness sake, Alan, then it’s about time you get this “shitted up” moronic USAmerican bitch off me.
No, ‘patterns’ are not AGENTS.
(A moderator at TAZ is now acting as an AGENT to protect walto from his ‘shitted up’ comment)
Alan Fox,
So, you support the ‘shitted up’ comment?!
Gregory,
I can discuss this freely in the noyau thread.
These recent days, Alan, you should just send to noyau or guano immediately anything ‘walto’ writes about or addressed to me because he is a diabolical ‘man on a mission’ to oppose anything and everything I say. He is a depraved atheist bureaucrat who happens to teach philosophistry. Iow, he is mad.
My fair and clear question to Joe remains.
Neil Rickert,
Simply reported? You’re simply an atheist apologist bullshitter, Neil. With TAZ priviledges.
That’s first. It’s not reporting. And it’s provoking & not in ‘good faith.’
walto,
Angry, angry condescending walto. Not a teacher. Just a bureaucrat angry atheist. (But hey, why not keep his posts, TAZ moderators and guano mine? They will support atheists and NEVER caution them.)
Yeah, they’re gullible because you’re an atheist – it’s preferential treatment at TAZ.
Just a well meaning request to people who tell me or other nonbelievers what we really think or believe:
Please eff yourself with broken glass.
I talk about what i think and believe. I do my best to refrain from psychoanalyzing other posters. I may think they are wrong or silly or even stupid, and I may say so, but I do not tell them what they really think.
If I do want to know what someone thinks, I ask.
Hey hotshoe
I love you to. You are kinda cute when you talk dirty. 😉
Do you kiss Darwin with that mouth?
peace
fifthmonarchyman sez
Dirtwad.
No peace.
William,
“Blurt and backpedal” is an accurate description of your MO. Fercrissakes, you’ve blurted out entire books that you’ve later regretted writing:
Blurt and backpedal.
keiths,
Keith consistently quote-mines me in order to mischaracterize my worldview and philosophy. I’ve corrected him multiple times but he refuses to accommodate those corrections. I’m not going to continue spending my time looking for past threads from which keiths is quote-mining and in which I’ve already corrected him afterwards. I’ll be happy to explain my worldview if there are any serious inquiries, but this post is to let others know that keiths characterization of it should not be taken seriously.
There are pretty big dollops of babble and bloviation in there too. I might go with “Blurt, babble, bloviate, and backpedal.”
So, why is it that you need to say things like this? I don’t see any reason for it other than to attempt to marginalize and ridicule another person. Is that it?
It’s interesting that even though walto has often been at the recieving end of keiths’ quote-mining and mischaracterizations, here he is apparently all too willing to jump in with keiths when he’s doing it to someone else.
Oh well. I guess the need to ostracize and ridicule some common “other” outweighs any moral restraint for some people.
I’m sorry; you’re right. There’s no need for ridicule of that type. I could just think that stuff without posting it.
And anyhow, who the hell am I to chastise anybody for babble OR bloviation? Those two are among the five things I do best!
I will say, though, that I haven’t seen you tee off on Gregory for his practices. (He’s running at about 94% ridicule on this site.). Mung either. Y’all are both quick to criticize “the other team” only. At least I’m an equal opportunity pain in the ass. keiths is too, for that matter.
walto,
William just provides more opportunities than most. He feels like he’s being singled out. TSZ can be a unpleasant place for those who find it rectally painful to have their mistakes noticed.
ETA: Insert a Richardthughes “butthurt” joke here.
Gregory’s probably bored out of his skull about now. Not that this thread isn’t just all exciting and interesting and captivating and all. *retch*
ok, walto, two of the other things you do best aren’t allowed on this site. So what’s the one thing that’s left?
An amusing instance of William quote mining himself, from 2013:
keiths:
You know things are getting tough for William when he stoops to quote-mining his own comments. (BTW, moderators — please don’t move his comment to Guano, even though he does falsely accuse me of lying. I’d like the accusation to remain in full view) :
As William knows perfectly well, the embarrassing quotations don’t come from either of those two books. They come from a third book, Instant Enlightenment, that he recommended to us in the very same comment that he quotemines above:
So the embarrassing quotations don’t come from something written 20 years ago. They come from a book that William recommended to us on this very blog as “something more current.”
Your behavior is pitiful, William.
William:
I admit I have some fault in this – I had completely forgotten about “Instant Enlightenment”, and for whatever reason your reference to it didn’t even register.
More “blurt and backpedal”. William blurts out an accusation…
…and then has to backpedal once again.
Rich’s reaction to William’s powers of “manfestation”:
Blurt, Back peddle & Butthurt LLC.
fifth,
Oh, really? That contradicts what you just told us:
Do you think that Jesus approves of your lying when it is done for Christianity’s sake?
fifth:
Of course you would rather change the subject. You are being asked questions about your faith that you are unable to answer. It’s embarrassing.
For you, belief clearly comes first. Poor attempts at post-hoc rationalization come only later, after your facile beliefs are challenged.
You’re not fooling anyone, Mung.
Taunts are not arguments.
Reciprocating Bill,
Over AtBC, that vile den of villainy and making fun of KF, I once suggested an avatar for our beloved Bob’O, which he now uses. I’m happy to provide the same service for Mung: http://saccoscom.x-shops.com/images/P/45-8020.gif
The many Mungs of Mung. Is Mung a portmanteau of Dung and Mong? Or maybe Mum and Dong?
Hey Richardthughes!
Maybe you could come up with something interesting to talk about that didn’t require knowledge. 😉
In waiting to participate in your next faux persecution post. They’re the best. Go and help Barry out? He seems to be finding that ‘dying for beliefs’ doesn’t necessarily make them true, and has butthurt.
lol, just realizing that now are we? You’ve a lot of history to scrub then now you are starting to become self-aware.
Well, it says more about you then anyone else, that you are prepared to endlessly debate people you consider insane.
No, it’s not a good idea at all. On that you’re right. It just self-serves your secular Jewish perspective. It’s happy-clappy agnosticism-atheism in the USA. 🙁 It’s ‘unnatural’ on a global scale (but you don’t seem to care to wonder why).
Sorry, KN, but your “I understand your point quite well” is on a D-league & falling level, and “no doubt quite badly” as you’ve stated it you admit.
Are you actually defending Judaism in any way other than simply ethnically, i.e. are you defending Judaism religiously? This is the thread for it at TA/SZ, after all. Your ‘orthoprax’ vs. ‘orthodox’ dodge to Erik is rather see-through.
Even your ‘philosophy’ is highly suspect to trained eyes. You 1) don’t sound like you know what you’re talking about re: ‘ideal democracy’ aside from a highly distant and detached, disenchanted analytic sophistry, and 2) have admitted that politically, you self-identify as a socialist (neo-quasi-)Marxist, emergentist, quasi-empiricist, scientism-ist, naturalist, quasi-pantheist, compatibilist, soft reductionist, pragmatist, LGBTist, environmentalist, and whatever else unmemorable (largely highly marginal confused quackery). Do you really think your ‘ideal democracy’ is any more than a simple façade you’ve created to tempt yourself as a comfortable underdog ‘god’?
And yet at the same time coming out of another side of your ‘secular’ ‘skeptical’ mouth the label seems quite welcome.
Do you really think, KN, that most USAmericans could actually take this ridiculous secular fantasy you are pushing seriously and embrace it as their own? Is that what you’re busy writing long posts sheltered here at TA/SZ with your now familiar enough atheist ‘comrades’ trying to enact?
Your “It is possible that there was … [i]t is possible that there wasn’t” just makes you sound confused about religion. And simply suggesting that someone ‘constitutionally’ doesn’t recognise this easily in your blog-written words is both laughable and sad. Own up to it or go see your Rabbi and stop pretending. Better is possible if you drop your sad, disenchanted, deluded philosophistic pretensions.
That’s not a course that KN will ever teach; he’ll stick instead to inculcating youth with his self-confused and long-winded philosophistry disguised as ‘knowledge’ 😉
It not uncommon for a ‘secular Jew’ to try to strip ‘religion’ of all meaning. So, there’s no such thing as ‘religious archaeology’, just ‘archaeology of religion’. There’s no ‘religious language’, just ‘language of religion’. And there’s no ‘religious truth’, just ‘truth about religion’, which to the atheist Jewish apostate carries predominantly if not totally negative self-abominating meanings. It’s often a fear that has turned into a loathing.
Since he walked away from religious Judaism and entered into his ‘skeptic’ period, I doubt KN has thought much on the topic of ‘religious truths’ about himself. He’s simply ‘not sure’, as with many of his wishy-washy pronoucements here at TA/SZ. Most people, however, e.g. the vast majority of normal USAmericans, at least face tensions within themselves about spirituality and/or religion. They don’t block out their theology/worldview; they try to learn more about it, at whatever rate & stage they are endowed.
KN instead – great ambassador of ‘skeptic’ philososphist at TA/SZ that he is – often reduces higher and deeper themes to simple statements about ‘ethics.’ He takes something greater than he can understand and shrinks it to something that he seems to think he can ‘wrap his mind around.’ In thus so doing, he’s become wrapped in a small package, so horizontal almost to the point of disappearing flat disenchanted worshipping Sellarsian pitiful squawk.
Honestly, KN, you don’t even know what you don’t know. Happy in your ignorance! And just like in this case, as it is with your scientistic atheism, you simply make stuff up as it suits you.
Go back to your playpen. hotshoe will likely stick the atheist knife in deeper while your religious Jewish religious heritage will cringe, and yet you’ll actually welcome it. But hey, they ‘love’ your philosophistry at TA/SZ, KN, which is why you feel entitled to ‘with pride’ use the phrase ‘us’! 😉
Oh, Allan. Don’t imagine I think more of you than scum. But a good, ‘fair’ moderator for TA/SZ consequently for that reason. 🙂
Gregory,
Scum I may be, but I’m not a moderator.
Gregory,
The only sophistry here is all yours.
Kantian Naturalist,
Nobody could believe you but a fool, KN, with your convoluted self-righteous ideologies. You admit you ‘over-reacted’ and that you have unstable ’emotional energy’. Admission accepted.
I and others easily see through your ridiculous Sellarsian atheist empiricism, upon which you’ve built your pathetic ‘contribution’ to knowledge. Let us know if you ever want to take us seriously instead of embracing your typical playful illusions.
It sure would be nice to have a religious Rabbi here to cleanse the remainder of the lesson you are being taught time and again by Erik’s clear thinking (compared with your woolly disenchanted ideas), though you’ve thus far maintained oblivious self-righteous sophistry. Nevertheless, I don’t count you as completely lost just yet; only without much hope due to intentional evasion.
But instead you’ve got ‘atheist groupies’ ass therapy for you here, which Elizabeth has gathered at TA/SZ, initially to resist IDism. Surely they make you feel welcome in your apostasy, KN, real Judaism be damned.
You could have actually admitted that your ultimatum was misconceived, but it would of course just make you look more wishy-washy than you already do. This kind of psychosis is what makes ‘philosophy’ in the USA look idiotic.
It’s never been a quarrel. KN simply lies down in his confusion, pretending to be a philosopher while he’s actually quite obviously a philosophist. Defending atheism half-heartedly, wanting not to be disenchanted, KN nevertheless clearly displays the fruits of his atheist Judaism here at TA/SZ. What could possibly change this approach other than KN visiting a new rabbi and ceasing his pretense to wisdom? Anybody’s guess…
Mung,
You were so close to not being a lying, quote-mining, scumbag, but you just couldn’t pull it off. Here’s what I wrote (as you well know):
Richardthughes,
put a sock in it
We are agreed. And it is telling that KN has made his ‘philosophy’ into his ‘religion.’ He’s deluded himself into running away from his Jewish roots into secularism cum atheism. Dostoevsky and Kierkegaard would object, but bottom-dwelling philosophistry like KN’s likely wouldn’t come up on their radars.
I’ve read a lot of Nietzsche, btw, and you’re not missing too much wrt goodness.
The Kate Tempest quote above was for you, KN. The ‘clear demarcation’ you seek is that you are a philosophist, not a philosopher. Parents should beware of your disenchanted teachings if they would allow their children to listen to the horizontal garbage you promote here.
KN debts Nietzsche’s gay science, unsurprising: “The strongest and most evil spirits have so far advanced humanity the most.” Bullshit fake ‘superman.’
Kate Tempest would simply kick Nietzsche in the balls and walk away with just about everyone clapping.
I prefer this from Twilight of the Idols: “For seventeen years I have never tired of calling attention to the despiritualizing influence of our current science-industry.”
Poor little quacky scientism proponent Sellars: KN’s hero. : (
Not that Eric will have the spine to either retract or apologize for his mistreatment of KN.
God, how I hate these dirty little theist “scholars”.