UPDATE: So far NO IDEAS as to how the theory of evolution can be falsified have been proposed…To make things worst, nobody so far picked up any of MY SUGGESTED IDEAS how to falsify evolution – now clearly numbered from 1-4.
It makes one wonder what the bases are for believing in the theory of evolution if no one seems to even want to at least try to falsify it…
Please keep in mind that by falsifying evolution you can refute many claims by the proponents of ID!!! Isn’t it what Darwin’s faithful want to do?
This OP is just a prelude to hopefully many future ones, where I would like to focus on the specific examples of how to falsify the theory of evolution…
This OP gives everyone an opportunity for the input on no doubt the many available ways how to experimentally falsify evolution…
As most of you know, Darwinists and post-Darwinists, for unknown reasons, are reluctant to experimentally prove their beliefs, so by the series of the OPs on the many possible ways of falsifying evolution, we can hopefully encourage Darwinists and the like, to do so for their own good… I could definitely help with that…
Here are some ideas on how to falsify evolution that I have come across so far:
How a walking mammal can evolve into an aquatic one?
1. Just as an example, let’s say I would like to evolve some aquatic functions…
How long would it take for me to see some evolutionary changes, if I spend most of the day in the water and what would they be? How about several generations of water-lovers? Can someone make a prediction, as evolutionists often do?
2. How about growing a bacterium without a flagellum, knockout the genes for the flagellum, or make the flagellum not fully functional and see whether the bacterium will evolve anything at least resembling a flagellum or evolves a better functionality of it…
3. How to evolve a function of an existing appendage that is no longer in full use to fully function again? How to make emus and ostriches to fly again?
4. How about finches? Since their beak size seems to change within one generation, could they evolve into another species within short period of time if put under selective pressure or something?
Let’s come up with ideas and put some organisms under selective pressure or whatever makes the organism evolve, and see if we can falsify evolution, so that we can end the speculations, once and for all, about who is right and who is wrong; Darwinists or Intelligent Design proponents…
Let us not hear any excuses anymore!
Let experimental science speak the truth!
I don’t think anybody in the right frame of mind would object to what I propose here… unless…. one doesn’t have the confidence in his or her preconceived ideas that could potentially be exposed…
Let’s begin!
Does Ken Miller, the NCSE and, Dennis Venema know they are wrong? If so, what did they say? Or have you not told them yet?
It doesn’t always work….
Same applies to “Darwin of the gaps…” that’s why The Mysteries of Evolution…;–)
Heh. Yeah, I must have used it 10,000 times and it’s never not worked.
See, the trouble is J-Mac is that you think you understand how things work but the truth of the matter is you simply don’t. There’s no shame in that. It takes all sorts to make a world.
So when people who know what they are talking about tell you you are wrong and explain why you just look like a fool when you repeat what you’ve already been corrected on.
Just look at Salvador and his misconceptions about carbon dating and YEC. He’s been corrected many times by people who know what they are talking about and he’s unable to rebut those corrections and yet he still makes the same claims. He did it today already on this site.
So, a real scientist would look at the blockquote issue and try and work out why sometimes it does not work. You might start to realize that HTML is just a collection of nodes, really, and it may be the case that your habit of editing other peoples comments to add your own comments in bold causes that node tree to become invalid. Perhaps you are incorrectly closing the tag or whatever.
so I can type HTML codes inline and they work!
You on the other hand are not but as you are never wrong about anything it must therefore be that sometimes blockquotes don’t work properly. Not that you don’t understand HTML, but sometimes it does not work. Despite the fact that nearly every other commenter on the site manages to use them correctly, despite the fact that there is a “quote” button on every post that does the block quoting for you you still don’t understand the problem is you.
And this is why your quest will fail. It’s why it has failed. You fail to comprehend that the world is more complex then you are able to understand. So you propose impossible experiments that you are then forced to admit that even you can’t carry out. You propose ideas like getting into the water and waiting for evolution to evolve you some water features seriously. You don’t seem to realize your lack of knowledge on the subject is actually a hinderance.
Belief is not required when you have evidence. What do you have evidence for?
Except it only applies in your mind. And, guess what, you don’t count. You have no track record to make your pronunciations worth caring about. You spout regurgitated creationist tropes that have been demonstrated false 1000 times.
J-Mac, there’s a reason you are on a free to register blog that allows anyone to post almost anything instead of standing in front of a class of university students. It’s because you don’t have anything and you don’t know it.
If your insights into why evolution is a lie are so cutting, why are they not making waves in the popular science press? Why have you not responded to me demonstrating that evolution is producing new insights daily into how we came to be and ID is producing nothing? It’s almost as if you don’t care where the evidence leads.
Yes
it
does
always
work
OMagain,
Just a tip! I no longer read your comments because they are all the same; the same accusations put in different words…
But the fundamental “hows” are not there…so what makes you think in the future the how is going to be the way you wanted to be?
You’ll find that theme recurring wherever you go. So get used to it would be my advice.
Whereas, of course, you have those answers. What are they?
And a follow up question, if you don’t have those answers (and, of course, you don’t) then why is it a problem if a different position does not have them either? Is that not also a problem for you?
Others will simply see me asking logical questions that flow from your stated positions and you ignoring them. That’s hardly going to reflect well on you.
I’m fine with that. I’ve done it for years with some other commenters. How long can you take it is the real question?
Still waiting on what rumraket said that was so terrible that you could not countenance continuing a conversation with him. Other then your baseless claims being challenged, that is.
Yes it does. So does ending a sentence with a single punctuation.
What else do you have on me? You don’t like what I do here?
Grow up! Cry me a river! I’m moved to tears… pathetic…
Thanks you!
I have not time to waste…so why should you…
Goodbye!
Grow up said the person trying to poke holes in something they don’t even have the beginnings of an understanding of.
If you cry yourself a river, does that mean you would be self-evolving in your self-created niche?
Honestly, telling someone else to grow up on a thread where you said the above is a great example of low self-awareness. The child in the room is telling the adults to shut up!
My pleasure.
And yet you seem to have wasted a lot of time memorising creationist claims so you can repeat them here. Why bother? Why don’t you learn just the tiniest amount about what you are claiming to be able to demonstrate as wrong? Arrogant much?
Tell me J-Mac, what do you do for a living?
No miracle with ones eyes has and will convince anyone of anything if he doesn’t want to be convinced…
You are a bible believer, right? Why so many people acknowledged Jesus’ miracles and so few followed him? People who acknowledged Jesus’s miracles actually conspired kill him…Why? Didn’t they see the same miracles as the others? So, why would they do that?
They don’t like the way God does business. Allan Miller illustrates the sentiment:
Or someone name Amanda who said:
PS
I think someone who believes in evolution and in Christ can go to heaven. When I became a Christian, I believed in evolution for year or so after becoming a Christian, I accepted OEC for a long time thereafter before becoming a YLC/YEC.
But Amanda does represent a sentiment I see floating around.
You have shown that you can use Google to find the titles of papers with particular words. But have you made any kind of point? No. Nor have you addressed any of the issues you were supposedly responding to.
Quite so. Evolution, even speciation, can be demonstrated in ways that make it amenable to observation even with our limited lifespans. But of course if you were interested in such data you’d have found it already. It’s not hard to find, nor is it a secret.
But you are not actually interested in the truth are you J-Mac?
He knows more about evolution than you know about ID, lol.
Yes.
Having a set of misunderstandings (i.e. how long would I have to be in the sea before I started to evolve fins) about evolution is actually net negative knowledge.
So even if I knew nothing at all about ID I’d still know more about it (zero) then J-Mac knows about evolution (-1).
The thing is J-Mac, Mung is laughing at you also. You just don’t realize it yet.
🙂
A miracle isn’t necessarily a creation. And why would miracles point to “God,” and not a wizard or some such thing? We’d simply have to figure things out if we saw miracles, which we don’t.
“Gaps” shouldn’t persuade anybody at all. You just won’t deal properly with these things, you won’t show real miracles, and your “gaps” are just unknowns (if that). Stuffing your favorite mental creation into the gap is just so much nonsense. Your “epistemology” is nothing but you trying very hard to believe what has no meaningful evidence for it at all.
You really have a false dilemma here. We’re waiting for evidence for your claims, and all you do is babble on about “gaps” in the only model that actually has evidence, and call that “creation” and “miracles.” There is nothing sound about your approach at all.
The weird thing is that you swallowed the nonsense of ID early on, the fallacy that ID is some sort of “default,” and nothing seems able to shake your belief in it. Defaults don’t exist in science or in judicial matters, they are simply the results of bias.
Glen Davidson
PRATT
Actually, no. I am not laughing at J-Mac.
If he’s wrong about something there are far better ways to convince him of it than the methods you and your co-scoffers here at TSZ employ.
I call BS on this. Darwin never wrote any such thing.
I think OMGagain is running out of arguments…not that he ever had any…lol
More nonsense. You may as well say that every organism is specially created by God. And whatever happened to genetic entropy? Is it a myth?
Both.
John Harshman,
From another paper trying to improve error rates. How can you accurately measure 100 (1 error per 30000000)mutations per generation with equipment that ranges 1 error per 1000 nucleotides to 1 error in 100000 nucleotides?
Please do it elsewhere. This site has rules.
Well said.
Yes. Why haven’t you restored my comment?
Aren’t you concerned about what happens when he stops ticking?
stcordova,
And yet you simply brush aside the issue of where all the carbon atoms in limestone come from. Brown’s answer makes no chemical sense.
Honestly, I don’t see the analogy with the excitement of betting at all. The more stuff you shove under the carpet, the more fun it is? Is it the risk of being found out?
I’m pretty risk-tolerant, as it goes. I left a steady job to form my own company; I self-invest rather than leave it managed; I stick my neck out over some aspects of evolution at the risk of chastisement by the mainstream; I get up on stage and run the risk of making a complete tit of myself in public. Grovelling to deities just ain’t in my nature. Anyone wants to judge me, they can go to hell! One of the reasons I left my job was a hatred of appraisals …
So, I’m more than happy to take the risk that some fucknut is going to stick a fork in me for getting it wrong on YEC. Bring it on!
J-Mac,
I know, you need to work on your content too, but it’s a start.
stcordova,
Nuh-uh. That God. The God you are peddling; the one that would punish me for all eternity for an honest evaluation of the evidence. Are you sure that’s the way he does business? Based on what?
That’s simple enough: you cover the same sequence many times. As is the standard practice. I will also point out that other estimates of mutation rate come up with similar numbers. This is all many orders of magnitude better evidence than the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. And yet you believe the one but reject the other.
I think you got my comment out context…I was referring to “Quote in reply” not working on my side… Can you see it?
Yes, those three periods to end a sentence do look weird.
It is working fine here.
Yes, I see that you don’t know how to do it.
For this reply, I used “Quote in reply”. That put everything from you into a single block.
I didn’t want a single block. So, at the end of your first sentence, I inserted
</blockquote>
to terminate that block. Then I added my comment. And finally, I inserted
<blockquote>
to start the next block. And, after your second sentence, I did the same insertions. It works pretty well.
For the record, I don’t believe in hell as the everlasting place of torment…It doesn’t make sense for many reasons…
So, I do sympathize with Amanda on that point only…
I have already done and OP on a similar subject:
and I’m working on doing an OP on a theme that will touch on the dogma of hell…I just need more info on that…
Thanks! I wasn’t quoting and I couldn’t bother doing html… I know html… at least basic…which is more than enough here…
The available evidence suggests otherwise.
And where will you be getting that “more information”? The bible does not talk much, arguably at all about Hell. So where are you getting your current information and where will you be getting this “more” information?
Going to sit in a cardboard pyramid and hope for divine inspiration?
You couldn’t even pass the “name the animals” test. No way are you getting into heaven with the poor and downtrodden.
Mung,
I wouldn’t join a club that would have me as a member. The theists can all sit on their clouds and laugh at the tortured. Maybe they’ll give you first dibs with the toasting fork. 🙂
J-Mac,
No, I got it. I feigned misunderstanding for humorous purposes. A lot of what I say is tongue in cheek. Like the Yoda thing.