The Imminent Demise of Evolution. Imminent since 1878.

In recent reading, Dembski and other ID proponents make the claim that evolution (or major supporting concepts for it) is increasingly being abandoned by scientists, or is about to fall. This claim has many forms and has been made for over 185 years.

From: http://answersinscience.org/demise.html

It seems that some current commenters on the site are unaware of the long history of such claims.

To those commenters, I would ask – when do you predict evolution will fall?

1878: “There are some signs of this whimsical theory of Evolution soon taking another phase. Carl Vogt has given hints that perhaps they have, after all, made a mistake as to the line of descent. It may be found, he conjectures, that Man is not descended from the Ape family but from the Dog! “Other theories may soon be heard of–for the human mind is restless under the burthen of mystery.” Thomas Cooper, Evolution, The Stone Book and The Mosaic Record of Creation, (London: Hodder and Stoughton), p. 186-187

2008: “It is not too early to chart the intellectual course to the 22nd century. The 21st century may well mark a gradual disaffection with Darwinism, comparable to the 20th century’s loss of support for Marxism.”  Steve Fuller, Science vs Religion? Intelligent Design and the Problem of Evolution, Cambridge: Polity Press, 2007, page 126

2017: “One would think that scientific, experimental evidence convinced Darwinists to change their mind… Unfortunately, just like many of my posts and comments have revealed, no such evidence has emerged…. ” TSZ

That last one there is from J-Mac, who apparently thinks evolution is on it’s deathbed but is also presumably unaware of the long long history of people making similar claims…

So, evolution denies, what year will it fall and why? What will be the final straw?

54 thoughts on “The Imminent Demise of Evolution. Imminent since 1878.

  1. Evolution’s “Big Bang” started in mid 1800’s. I predict the continued evolution of evolution. From different species of evolution, to different genera of evolution and eventually to many different phyla of all the evolutionary theories.

    Some theories of evolution will go extinct, others will flourish. Some will be so much alike that we’ll hardly be able to tell them apart. Some will be so different that many critics will claim they aren’t really evolutionary theories at all.

    Hybridization and horizontal theory transfer will play havoc with attempts to create the tree of evolutionary theories. Some will say they are like a forest, other most like a bush. Widespread theory convergence will further muddy the waters.

    One school will claim that all theories of evolution came about by small changes over great periods of time and preserved by theory selection. Others will claim there are large gaps between some theories and that they cannot be explained by minute accretions.

    The actual mechanisms of evolutionary theory evolution will be hotly contested. People will claim there is no controversy. the evolution of evolutionary theories is a fact, Fact, FACT!

  2. It’s funny how those who don’t understand science see it changing as new data becomes available as a problem. I guess it’s because their source of earthly wisdom got printed once and then never changed and so they perceive systems of knowledge that actually update themselves as less worthy. Either way, we’ll be laughing at them for 100’s of years to come I’m sure. More’s the pity.

  3. To those commenters, I would ask – when do you predict evolution will fall?

    When Christ returns.

    When will He return? Hopefully before nutjob dictators like Kim Jong Un and many many others get increase their stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction and before overpopulation destroys the planet. Give it less than 500 years, certainly far less than geological time.

    But if Christ doesn’t return before all this bad stuff comes down, then humanity will go extinct and thus will end the theory of evolution since there will be no one around to remember it.

    To quote the Atheist/Agnostic who was so instrumental in my return to Christianity after some bouts of militant agnosticism:

    https://www3.nd.edu/~afreddos/courses/264/fmw.htm

    A Free Man’s Worship
    ….
    Such, in outline, but even more purposeless, more void of meaning, is the world which Science presents for our belief. Amid such a world, if anywhere, our ideals henceforward must find a home….no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man’s achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins–all these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand.
    ….

    And so will go the theory of evolution. It will die when humanity dies.

    So my rhetorical question in response is:

    What does it profit a man if gain the whole world of evolution, convinces himself he and monkeys are kissing cousins, but lose his own soul?

    And that is one reason I’m a creationist. The evolutionists could not give me a better deal for me and the human condition.

  4. “That last one there is from J-Mac, who apparently thinks evolution is on it’s deathbed but is also presumably unaware of the long long history of people making similar claims…

    So, evolution denies, what year will it fall and why? What will be the final straw?

    “I’m pretty sure that Darwin’s faithful are willing to believe any nonsense… as long as they can pretend that the-long-dead theory of evolution is alive and kept on the respirator…for as long as possible…lol

    http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/the-mysteries-of-evolution-6-endosymbiosis-the-second-miracle-of-life-after-the-origin-of-life/

    I don’t understand why someone, hopefully in the right frame of mind, would claim that I think that evolution is on its deathbed, if I had already written that:

    “…they (Darwinists) can pretend the-long-dead theory of evolution is alive and kept on the respirator…for as long as possible…”

    Can someone please do the honors and explain to this individual:

    1. What I have written
    2. Why not to publish nonsense OPs
    3. Why I refuse to continue to have any further discussions with this individual
    4. Whatever you think is necessary for this individual to stop wasting his time writing pointless OPs and comments…

    Thank you in advance!

  5. stcordova: And so will go the theory of evolution. It will die when humanity dies

    That’s an interesting way to answer the question. Of course if and when humanity becomes extinct the theory of gravitation will also die, but that doesn’t mean the planets will fly out of their orbits because gravity ceased to exist

  6. J-Mac: Can someone please do the honors and explain to this individual:

    JMac is correct here. I think the only interesting quotes relevant to the OP are the ones that give a clear timeline for the demise of evolution, such as Wells prediction in 2002 that CD would be gone within 3 years. UD has stopped making predictions and now says evolution survives due to a conspiracy in academia. The longer it survives the more thorough the conspiracy

  7. J-Mac: 1. What I have written
    2. Why not to publish nonsense OPs
    3. Why I refuse to continue to have any further discussions with this individual
    4. Whatever you think is necessary for this individual to stop wasting his time writing pointless OPs and comments…

    1: Ah, so it’s already dead then? Is that your quibble?
    2: Well, once I learn that I’ll explain it to you.
    3: Welcome to my OP thread.
    4: It’s never a waste of time to contrast the macro view to the micro.

  8. Barry Arrington at UD in a private letter:

    http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/barry-arringtons-bullying/

    We are in a war. That is not a metaphor. We are fighting a war for the soul of Western Civilization, and we are losing, badly. In the summer of 2015 we find ourselves in a positon very similar to Great Britain’s position 75 years ago in the summer of 1940 – alone, demoralized, and besieged on all sides by a great darkness

    Barry Arrington

    And we were losing so baldly the Trumpkins and Republicans took over the governorships, the state legislatures, the house, the senate, and the White house.

    Some of the forces that seek to destroy the Trumptopia we live in are the Feminazis and Antifa. Btw, did you notice the similarity of ISIS and Antifa?

  9. So, J-Mac, evolution is dead and yet ID/YEC/Whatever still can’t take the crown?

    How pathetic must they be to not be able to step over a corpse.

  10. J-Mac: Can someone please do the honors and explain to this individual:

    1. What I have written

    The people you have on ignore can read your posts

    2. Why not to publish nonsense OPs

    If someone who has you on ignore considers your posts as nonsense would that dissuade you from publishing?

    3. Why I refuse to continue to have any further discussions with this individual

    You already told him,I expect he could care less

    4. Whatever you think is necessary for this individual to stop wasting his time writing pointless OPs and comments…

    If you aren’t reading them why do you care?

  11. stcordova: Some of the forces that seek to destroy the Trumptopia we live in are the Feminazis and Antifa. Btw, did you notice the similarity of ISIS and Antifa?

    No. The reason antifa don’t want to be identified is because right wing nut jobs identify them on their sad little internet man caves then do bad things to them.

    Whereas all you Nazi’s get is sacked. I assume you are on the Nazi side Sal? If not, please do say so, as that’s the impression I’m getting.

    stcordova: Some of the forces that seek to destroy the Trumptopia we live in are the Feminazis and Antifa. Btw, did you notice the similarity of ISIS and Antifa?

    It’s hard to know when to take you seriously. And then I remember you are a YEC. So, never then.

  12. newton: The people you have on ignore can read your posts

    If someone who has you on ignore considers your posts as nonsense would that dissuade you from publishing?

    You already told him,I expect he could care less

    If you aren’t reading them why do you care?

    So…What’s the point of your comment then?

  13. J-Mac: So…What’s the point of your comment then?

    Apparently it’s beyond you. Perhaps another way. If you don’t like what’s on the TV, change the channel.

  14. J-Mac: So…What’s the point of your comment then?

    You seemed unaware thought I would help you out, what was the point of your comment?

  15. stcordova: Btw, did you notice the similarity of ISIS and Antifa?

    Yeah they’re both dressed in black and cover their faces, just like police SWAT teams.

    How utterly terrible of them.

  16. stcordova: The evolutionists could not give me a better deal for me and the human condition.

    That isn’t as impressive a reason as you might suppose. Truth doesn’t depend on how good a deal you get if it’s true. If that were the case, everyone would believe they had won the lottery, and then of course they actually would have won. So all you have done here is destroy any intellectual credibility you might have possessed.

  17. Sal,

    So my rhetorical question in response is:

    What does it profit a man if gain the whole world of evolution, convinces himself he and monkeys are kissing cousins, but lose his own soul?

    And that is one reason I’m a creationist. The evolutionists could not give me a better deal for me and the human condition.

    That is profoundly stupid, Sal. Dumb as shit.

    So if the Scientologists promise you a better deal than the Christians, then boom — you’re an instant Scientologist?

  18. keiths: So if the Scientologists promise you a better deal than the Christians, then boom — you’re an instant Scientologist?

    Careful Sal. I’m pretty sure keiths is a Scientologist and is just trying to lure you in.

  19. Mung:

    Careful Sal. I’m pretty sure keiths is a Scientologist and is just trying to lure you in.

    Sour grapes. Mung got rejected by the Scientologists and had to fall back on Christianity.

  20. keiths: Mung got rejected by the Scientologists and had to fall back on Christianity.

    That’s information only a Scientology insider could have.

    Don’t fall for it Sal!

  21. keiths: Sorry about that. I didn’t realize that even the Scientologists would reject you.

    Your treatment of me is exactly what we would expect from you as a Scientology insider. Your denials of inside knowledge are also exactly what we would expect from you as a Scientology insider.

    Don’t fall for it Sal!

  22. I don’t think evolutionism, as is, will last 20 years more.
    Everybody is getting smarter and more involved in these issues.
    The attack on evolutionism from ID/YEC is famous and I note EVERYWHERE nobody talks about evolution, to the general public, except to address ID/YEC.
    ID is a famous term. YEC less so but bible believing creationists is instantly recognizable.
    remember the great debate between Ham and Nye!!
    The credibility of the criticism by ID/YEC has won already a hesitation in the general public who otherwise were uninterested.
    Even in Canada, almost a complete dictaorship in institutions etc etc, they must debunk ID in university textbooks before preaching evolutionism.
    Just a slight opposition in small circles has shook old time evolutionism.
    Its not like that in real sciences except in accepted contentions in other subjects.

    Evolutionism has not defended itself as it should if it was true and well supported.
    Behold this forum! Do the evos here intellectually prevail over the creos? NO!
    (remember the side who is wrong is most likely not to notice its wrong on a curve)

    It is like Marzism or any inferior and wrong ideas. They do die out eventually.
    They should of gone sooner and faster. Why linger?
    Why does evolutionism linger?
    Paradigms don’t fall apart as quickly as they should .
    Are the guys who are wrong on these issues ON THIS BLOG/FORUM smelling they are wrong, after dealing with opponents as has been done? Anybody fessing up? Startled in the night?
    THIS IS A REAL STORY! Either evolutionism is going down AS IS or its critics are going down and with the Christian etcMaybe active God/or God(s) to boot.
    These forums/blogs are documenting the great story that will come in our time.
    Watch out! You might be in a million high school essays in the future on HOW the demise of”…..” came!
    Glad I used my real name(I guess that hints at a prediction)

  23. Byers:

    I don’t think evolutionism, as is, will last 20 years more.

    20 years from now you’ll be saying the same thing.

  24. “Since 1878 people who think seriously have seriously doubted the theory of evolution. And they still do!”

    OMagain, Aug.30, 2017

  25. Keiths:
    That is profoundly stupid, Sal. Dumb as shit.

    So says the guy who swears by the word of Dawkins that “we create our own meaning.” Pot calling the kettle black, Keiths? At least creation has a chance of being true, Jesus being real had a chance of being true, which is more than I can say for scientology or the belief that giraffes evolved from fish by natural means.

    So, what good does it do you to insist you’re physically related to a monkey? Explain for the readers.

    Does thinking you are the cousin of these guys put a smile on your face?

  26. Yeah keiths, does thinking you are the cousin of Salvador put a smile on your face? It sure puts a smile on mine! 😀

  27. Sal,

    So, what good does it do you to insist you’re physically related to a monkey? Explain for the readers.

    I know this is an alien concept to you, but most of your opponents here, including me, are genuinely curious. We actually seek out the truth instead of fighting it as you do.

    If we are physically related to other primates — and the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that we are — then I accept that truth instead of fighting it. What would be the point of fighting the truth, like a creationist or a Scientologist?

  28. Back to my original question, which you avoided:

    Sal:

    So my rhetorical question in response is:

    What does it profit a man if gain the whole world of evolution, convinces himself he and monkeys are kissing cousins, but lose his own soul?

    And that is one reason I’m a creationist. The evolutionists could not give me a better deal for me and the human condition.

    keiths:

    That is profoundly stupid, Sal. Dumb as shit.

    So if the Scientologists promise you a better deal than the Christians, then boom — you’re an instant Scientologist?

    Surely even you can see how poor your logic is.

  29. stcordova: So says the guy who swears by the word of Dawkins that “we create our own meaning.”

    So nobody is allowed to believe that because Dawkins said it once so believing that would be just like being religious in that we’re following what pope Dawkins said?

    What marvelous meaning does your life have Sal? You said that sitting at the foot of god for eternity sounds great, why? What’s happening there? What if it’s really boring? Or won’t it be boring because god can tweak your brain to make it not boring?

    So rather then make your own meaning you’ve crowbarred meaning that farmers wrote thousands of years ago into a Frankenbelief system that’s so absurd that you think everything we know about carbon dating is wrong and that the earth and cosmos is young. You can fit any old shit into a broken frame.

    stcordova: At least creation has a chance of being true, Jesus being real had a chance of being true, which is more than I can say for scientology or the belief that giraffes evolved from fish by natural means.

    It’s not a belief though is it Sal? It’s not an acceptance that something exists or is true without proof. There is evidence for common descent, as being discussed right now in a different thread.

    It’s more likely Scientology is true then Jesus was de Lard because Scientology involves aliens and aliens might exist. Some bloke who is his own dad and some ghost at the same time who forgot that he sent himself on the mission (why have I forsaken myselffff!!!) and then who forgot to mention a few key facts that would have prevented many wars and schisms is more absurd.

    stcordova: So, what good does it do you to insist you’re physically related to a monkey? Explain for the readers.

    Some of us care more about the truth then hurt feelings. Although why the idea is so repulsive I just don’t understand. I’m physically related to every component in the universe from end to end, without limitation or hinderance. Why is it so absurd that in my causal history some atoms happened to be in a monkey that then made some other atoms ultimately end up in me? It’s not like you’ve got monkey stank on you, well, that is unless, have you been naughty with a lower mammal Sal? There was that whole bestality thing which I brought up again recently, remember? Perhaps you are calling others out on what you’ve secretly been up to? Feeling guilty? Does that picture you posted invoke any unwelcome feelings at all Sal? Any urges?

    stcordova: Does thinking you are the cousin of these guys put a smile on your face?

    Yes! They are great. I was at the zoo recently, and they have a big primate section! How can you look at them behave as they do and not believe we are related?

    Well, I guess if you can believe god is such a liar that he made a 6000 year old universe look ancient you can believe any old shit at all.

  30. keiths: Surely even you can see how poor your logic is.

    Nah, if he could he’d see how poor his logic was and do something about it. I guess he’s reasonably well off from his magic card tricks he’s desperately proud of and never actually has to face the reality of proving yourself in the real world where only actual talent counts. Card tricks, however impressive, not so much. Probably going to be one of those endless student types. Try this sort of shit at work and it all falls apart very quickly. It’s why they are so scared of peer review I think. It’s what Dembski fantasised about, holding his enemies to account in court where they could not squirm away. And look how it’s turned out! The peer review session of court never even started for ID.

  31. OMagain: What marvelous meaning does your life have Sal? You said that sitting at the foot of god for eternity sounds great, why? What’s happening there? What if it’s really boring? Or won’t it be boring because god can tweak your brain to make it not boring?

    If you believe the alternative is eternal suffering , boring might not sound so bad.

  32. stcordova: Does thinking you are the cousin of these guys put a smile on your face?

    They look better and have more teeth than some of the human residents of Oklahoma.

  33. Sal:

    Does thinking you are the cousin of these guys put a smile on your face?

    The irrationality of creationists is endlessly fascinating.

    First there’s the idea that whether it “puts a smile on my face” has any relevance to whether I should believe it.

    Then there’s the hysterical “I ain’t related to no monkey” primate phobia.

    The disdain for other primates doesn’t even make sense within the goofy creationist paradigm. God created them and declared them to be “good”. Who is Sal to say that they’re shit?

    Careful, Sal. You’re going to piss off the Big Guy.

  34. I can offer a better deal. Convert to Allanism. Everything is exactly as it would be if Allanism were true.

    What’s the other guy offerin’? I’ll double it.

  35. stcordova: So, what good does it do you to insist you’re physically related to a monkey? Explain for the readers.

    Does thinking you are the cousin of these guys put a smile on your face?

    Those questions are utterly irrelevant to whether it is true. Stop making it about your vain and selfish desire to get something out of it. The facts are what the facts are regardless of how they make you feel.

  36. stcordova: So, what good does it do you to insist you’re physically related to a monkey? Explain for the readers.

    It explains the striking similarities between ourselves and monkeys.

    Kind of matters to a lot of us, if explanation seems not to appeal to you. HIV is understood as coming from our close relatives, and destroying polio will have to include eradicating it from chimps if it is to be successful.

    Glen Davidson

  37. It doesn’t do much good to know how fast Andromeda’s going, either. I don’t see why any scientific fact should ‘do one good’.

    I think the subtext is that, if you think you’re related to monkeys, you’ll go to hell. I don’t know why that would be a consequence, but it seems to be the fundamental fear – evolution must be resisted, because if accepted, God will be displeased. Which doesn’t cast God in a particularly good light, I have to say.

    Rather makes all these conversations somewhat pointless (we knew that already, of course!). If your interlocutor fears eternal damnation for accepting your point, you’ve got quite the battle on your hands, armed as you are only with puny ‘reasons’.

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