Sandbox (4)

Sometimes very active discussions about peripheral issues overwhelm a thread, so this is a permanent home for those conversations.

I’ve opened a new “Sandbox” thread as a post as the new “ignore commenter” plug-in only works on threads started as posts.

5,967 thoughts on “Sandbox (4)

  1. I

    J-Mac: I knew right from the start of the so-called pandemic something was wrong about it . I just didn’t know or understand what it was about. I knew it wasn’t about a new pathogen. So, those who believe that covid-19 was not about a new or more deadly pathogen, what was it about?

    Looking for some help with picking numbers this week’s lottery, with your natural abilities should be an easy peasy. Thanks In return , here is one FOIA obtained CDC document that apparently got through unredacted.

    https://www.cdc.news/2023-01-16-foia-forces-cdc-covid-vaccine-vaers-data.html

  2. newton:
    I

    Looking for some help with picking numbers this week’s lottery, withyour natural abilities should be an easy peasy. ThanksIn return , here is one FOIA obtained CDC document that apparently got through unredacted.

    https://www.cdc.news/2023-01-16-foia-forces-cdc-covid-vaccine-vaers-data.html

    The emergency rescue vehicles parked in front of vaccine centers for the first six months were propaganda designed to reassure everyone there could be no adverse effects. Tricky.

  3. J-Mac: No, it’s not ready. but I’d like to know if I can post here and what kind of censorship is in place, if any, and regulated by whom?

    There is no censorship as such. TSZ reserves the right to exercise editorial control, especially where legal boundaries are exceeded.

    Is that too much to ask?

    You can post here, evidently. However, I encourage anyone to check their facts before making claims. I moved your post from the pending file to the drafts folder. Move it to pending when ready to post.

  4. petrushka: The emergency rescue vehicles parked in front of vaccine centers for the first six months were propaganda designed to reassure everyone there could be no adverse effects. Tricky.

    Really? Not my experience, it was regular day at CVS. Also not my experience , that anyone claimed “there could be no adverse effects”. A new vaccine , rushed to market? There are always unknown unknowns. What was known at the time is getting Covid was bad , possibly fatal for the elderly and the unlucky. Vaccine seemed then and now a good bet.

  5. newton: What was known at the time is getting Covid was bad…

    For an acquaintance of mine it was worse. She died at the beginning of 2020 before the international scale and severity of the epidemic had become clear.

  6. Not to change the subject or anything but…

    Avatars. Mine changed to an old Gravatar image that I’d forgotten about. I updated my Gravatar profile and I have my preferred avatar back. But I suspect the loss or change of avatars is not just my problem. I think WordPress used to have an option in the user profile that let the user set an avatar by uploading and linking. Now, the only option appears to be setting up a Gravatar account. There is a plugin that I’ve tested that allows any registered user to upload a file from their computer. I’ll activate it then a member wishing to use their own can upload via “user profile” (click on icon at top right after logging in). Scroll to last item in profile.

  7. Avatars continued.

    WordPress must have had an option that allowed members registering at TSZ to upload avatar images to the media library which would then display with their user name in comments. I recognise several images in the library that no longer appear alongside comments. I’ve found another little plugin that allows users to link their profile to a TSZ media image which might be simpler for anyone wishing to restore an avatar image they’ve already uploaded. It’ll be available in user profile shortly.

    ETA, glancing through a couple if old comment threads, I see quite a few custom avatars are displaying.

  8. newton: Really?Not my experience, it was regular day at CVS. Also not my experience , that anyone claimed “there could be no adverse effects”. A new vaccine , rushed to market? There are always unknown unknowns. What was known at the time is getting Covid was bad , possibly fatal for the elderly and the unlucky. Vaccine seemed then and now a good bet.

    Did I forget the sarcasm tag? Every time I got a shot I had to sign a document stating I had read a list of possible adverse effects. I’m not bring any news to this site, but vaccines have always had adverse effects. You vaccinate billions of people and you will have hundreds of thousands of adverse effect anecdotes.

  9. petrushka: You vaccinate billions of people and you will have hundreds of thousands of adverse effect anecdotes.

    Moving from concurrency to causation is part of the human condition. 😊

  10. I think I’ve posted this before, but when I was a kid, my mother worked in a children’s hospital that was full of kids in iron lungs.

    The Salk vaccine had a history that was not entirely unlike the covid vaccine. It is not permanent. It still requires four doses. There was a bad batch that caused paralysis in several dozen kids. I can’t even imagine that kind of horror.

    But I am imprinted on the memory of that hospital. There were lots of such hospitals. None now.

    Polio is a virus. It’s dead, j-Mac. Can’t hurt anyone.

  11. 1. I’m curious how many people on this forum are aware that the so-called “covid-19 vaccines” were never tested whether they prevent infection and transmission, including the so-called experts?
    2. How many people here actually evaluated both Pfizer and Moderna clinical trial results before injecting themselves with their products?
    3. How many people here, other than DNA_jock, can admit they were injured in some way by the covid-19 vaccines?
    4. How many people here believe covid-19 panicdemic was a scam?
    5. How many people here who believe there was something wrong with the COVID-19 pandemic know or believe what the motive was behind it?

  12. petrushka,

    If you believe it, you must have proof that polio is caused by a virus, right?
    I will e-transfer you $50 when you provide some proof. How does it sound?

  13. J-Mac:
    petrushka,

    If you believe it, you must have proof that polio is caused by a virus, right?
    I will e-transfer you $50 when you provide some proof. How does it sound?

    I would rather just ignore you. My idea of a discussion is learning things from people who know more than I do about something, or from people who have had different life experiences.

    I’m not into trying to convert people to my way of thinking.

  14. While I will not argue with you, I would read a brief essay on the cause of polio, according to you.

  15. J-Mac: 1. I’m curious how many people on this forum are aware that the so-called “covid-19 vaccines” were never tested whether they prevent infection and transmission, including the so-called experts?

    LOL. If only you had phrased it “the pivotal clinical trials did not test for infection and transmission” you might have had a point. A dumb point, and one which has been addressed on this site: there’s a very good reason why those trials did not test for transmission and infection. But you wrote “were never tested” and that’s just wrong. Try to keep up.

    2. How many people here actually evaluated both Pfizer and Moderna clinical trial results before injecting themselves with their products?

    I would have asked how many people reviewed the airworthiness data for their aircraft before their last flight, but given Boeing’s recent performance, that might be a poor analogy…

    3. How many people here, other than DNA_jock, can admit they were injured in some way by the covid-19 vaccines?

    Not even I can admit that I was injured by the vaccines, because I was not. Your fevered imagination at work once more?

    4. How many people here believe covid-19 panicdemic was a scam?

    Show of hands? How many believe the earth is not spinning? Bueller? Bueller?

    5. How many people here who believe there was something wrong with the COVID-19 pandemic know or believe what the motive was behind it?

    Do tell.
    Big Pharma?
    Bill Gates?
    Satanic child molesters?
    On second thoughts, don’t bother.

  16. petrushka: I would rather just ignore you. My idea of a discussion is learning things from people who know more than I do about something, or from people who have had different life experiences.

    I’m not into trying to convert people to my way of thinking.

    Why didn’t you ignore me?
    I don’t care about your feelings, get it?
    You really don’t get what this is all about.
    DNA_jock, unlike you, has blood on his hands….
    How would you live with yourself if you were in his shoes?

  17. J-Mac: You really don’t get what this is all about.
    DNA_jock, unlike you, has blood on his hands….
    How would you live with yourself if you were in his shoes?

    “Ahh, but the strawberries! That’s – that’s where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes, but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with – geometric logic – that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist! And I’d have PRODUCED that key if they hadn’t’ve pulled the Caine out of action! I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officers -“

  18. For what it’s worth, I just had my second dose of the bivalent booster. Even though the CDC says that given the difference between the versions it was created to resist and the latest versions, my resistance probably has not been increased more than roughly 40% (though they say it’s probably more protection against truly virulent cases. The jury is still out on long covid, which might be a term describing a range of underlying issues).

    In various sources, I have read that the percentage of the US population which has contracted covid at least once might be anywhere from 60-95%, with a good percentage of those having caught it multiple times. I get the vague impression that the million-plus Americans who died of covid were those most susceptible. There are still a few thousand covid hospitalizations a week in the US, but I have also read that some sizeable (but unmeasurable) percentage of the population have experienced asymptomatic cases.

    I know several people who contracted covid who were never vaccinated, and at least one who was vaccinated (but only the first shot). I don’t know anyone injured by the vaccine itself, nor have I read of any such cases. Perhaps I could get some allegations of this from RFK Jr. or some of his followers? Charlie Kirk?

  19. Let’s begin the uncovering of the so called “novel SARS CoV-2” scheme or scam?
    I have realized l will not be allowed to post controversial ,or inconvenient evidence, so let’s do it this way.
    I also realized that with the exception of DNA_jack, nobody on this forum has any medical training. I don’t mean that DNA_jack had medical training, but at least he has seen some of the offices where so-called medical gods sit.
    So, if someone were to claim SARS-CoV2 was a scam, where would he/she/them start to prove it?
    1. Symptoms of the novel disease must be nusual prior to other common often seasonal respiratory infections.
    2. Death rate would have to be very high vs prior respiratory infections.
    3. Medical experts would have to believe they deal with a novel pathogen they have not seen before, right?
    4. Any other aspects I have missed?
    Feel free to comment even if you feel it is wrong…

  20. petrushka:
    While I will not argue with you, I would read a brief essay on the cause of polio, according to you.

    Why? You would like to know the truth?

  21. J-Mac:
    Flint,

    What is it worth? Give me one reason, please!

    What it’s worth is that I have seen no indication of anything you allege, and your claims contradict my personal experience and that of everyone I know.

  22. Step number 2.
    If there were a fake pandemic and the experts fell for it, they would have to kill people to make look like there was a pandemic, right?
    How do you do that?
    How do you fool experts, like DNA_jack?

  23. Flint: What it’s worth is that I have seen no indication of anything you allege, and your claims contradict my personal experience and that of everyone I know.

    What would convince you that there is something wrong? I’m not taking about personal experiences right now. I’m talking worldwide first.
    You can tell your personal experiences now.

  24. J-Mac:
    Let’s begin the uncovering of the so called “novel SARS CoV-2” scheme or scam?
    I have realized l will not be allowed to post controversial ,or inconvenient evidence, so let’s do it this way.

    This is news to me. As far as I can tell, nobody is prohibited from posting evidence of any kind. Nobody is even prohibited from making claims without posting any evidence.

    I also realized that with the exce of DNA_jack, nobody on this forum has any medical training. I don’t mean that DNA_jack had medical training, but at least he has seen some of the offices where so-called medical gods sit.
    So, if someone were to claim SARS-CoV2 was a scam, wherewould he/she/them start to prove it?

    I wonder if medical training would be necessary. I don’t think anyone needs to be a doctor to observe that over a million people died of a particular virus, which was specifically identified as the cause of death. Seems pretty clear the the virus itself was not a scam. The statistics following the vaccine show, even to non-medical people, a damn high negative correlation between vaccination and contracting the virus, so the vaccine, considered statistically, was certainly not a scam. So you need to identify the scam you’re trying to prove in enough detail so that someone can formulate an operational definition of what you’re looking for, to make it possible to point to any specific fact and say that it is, or is not, evidence of what you’re alleging.

    1. Symptomsof the novel disease must be nusualprior to other common often seasonal respiratory infections.

    Why? The “common cold” (that is, common symptoms) is the result of at least six different corona viruses. Does that mean colds are scams, or the cold viruses are scams, or what? The point here is that a great many illnesses masquerade as other illnesses.

    2. Death rate would have to be very high vs prior respiratory infections.

    Well, covid-19 has produced a higher death rate than most respiratory infections, but not as high as the 1918 flu. Does that make covid more scamful than most, but less scamful than the 1918 flu? Or is it the other way around?

    :
    3. Medical experts would have to believe they deal with a novel pathogen they have not seen before, right?

    As covid began to spread worldwide, this emerged as the consensus – that is, a novel virus in the lowest-level specifics, but not novel in the sense that deadly respiratory viruses have been known for a while. Indeed, it was similar enough to past viruses to point the way to the development of an effective vaccine.

    4. Any other aspects I have missed?
    Feel free to comment even ifyou feel it is wrong…

    Your approach here is commonly found in mathematical proofs – make some statement, and show logically why it cannot be true. In this case, make the statement that covid is a scam, and then see if you can find some contradictory indications. And sure enough, the exact symptoms (for most people) were very real, and images with electron microscopes indicated a real culprit, and the effectiveness of vaccines indicated something was being resisted, and the millions of deaths indicated that there was something very real happening.

    Now, I suppose you could argue that, yes, all these indications were impossible to ignore, but NOT impossible to mis-identify. Maybe the world was suffering from some illness that was not novel, but still different enough to require a directed response. But this veers pretty close to a semantic objection – that the virus was very real but not correctly named. But millions would have died from it under any other name, so what’s the point?

  25. Flint,

    Okay. If you were me, what would you do to help you? Just imagine you have unlimited resources for a while…
    I mean in search of truth…obviously…

  26. How do you create a pandemic? Can you? Of course you can. All you have to do is kill a lot of people and blame it on a non-existent pathogen. It has been done before to blame God for poor design.

    Some of the observant readers here may have seen it that I posted scandalous evidence of no pandemic when Ontario government decided to introduce a lockdown on Dec 17 2021 when 4 main hospitals in Toronto Ontario had no ICU covid-19 patients and 4 in total.
    Let’s move into how to make an appearance of a pandemic. This is important because without excess deaths there is no evidence of pandemic…
    Here is one of many emerging studies from UK.

    “Excess Deaths in the United Kingdom: Midazolam and Euthanasia in the COVID-19 Pandemic”

  27. petrushka: Serious question: the boosters seem to be maximally effective for about ninety days. Does it make sense to get them around November? Like flu shots?

    Edit: maybe it depends on when cold weather starts at your location.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/current-covid-hospitalizations-per-million?country=CAN~GBR~USA~ITA

    That seem like a fairly stable trend line.

    How would you boost your protection against the dead?
    Can the dead harm you? Can they kill you? I’m afraid not.
    Why would you worry about dead particles called viruses?
    Can you see the logic?

  28. J-Mac:
    Flint,

    Okay. If you were me, what would you do to help you? Just imagine you have unlimited resources for a while…
    I mean in search of truth…obviously…

    Well, to begin with, I might consider it possible that I might be mistaken. I think it’s a mistake to start with a foregone conclusion, and discard any line of investigation which is inconsistent with this conclusion. Also, as your linked source implies, it’s also a mistake to search for a single villain in a situation where multiple factors are involved.

    So you wouldn’t start with “How can I prove this was/was not a scam?”, but rather by asking “What exactly is going on here?”

  29. Flint: This is news to me. As far as I can tell, nobody is prohibited from posting evidence of any kind. Nobody is even prohibited from making claims without posting any evidence

    Grow up Filint!
    Ever since I’ve tried to replicate the evolutionary theory that threatened the livelihood and careers of some of the regulars here, censorship became the norm.
    Would you like to see the evidence that may get me banned for good?

  30. Flint: Well, to begin with, I might consider it possible that I might be mistaken. I think it’s a mistake to start with a foregone conclusion, and discard any line of investigation which is inconsistent with this conclusion. Also, as your linked source implies, it’s also a mistake to search for a single villain in a situation where multiple factors are involved.

    So you wouldn’t start with “How can I prove this was/was not a scam?”, but rather by asking “What exactly is going on here?”

    Do you want to know the truth? Yes or No?

  31. J-Mac: Grow up Filint!
    Ever since I’vetried to replicate the evolutionary theory that threatened the livelihood and careers of some of the regulars here, censorship became the norm.
    Would you like to see the evidence that may get me banned for good?

    Yes, I really would. The idea that you have “replicated evolutionary theory that threatened the livelihood or career” of anyone here is the sort of extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. No insult intended, but your often paranoid assertions are not evidence of anything but a potential mental problem.

  32. J-Mac: Do you want to know the truth? Yes or No?

    Sure I want to know the truth, but what you present I would naturally run through the context and background of everything else I’ve read, for years and from a large number of sources. If your starting position is that they are ALL either deluded or lying, nothing else you have to say is worth the time to read.

  33. J-Mac: How would you boost your protection against the dead?
    Can the dead harm you? Can they kill you? I’m afraid not.
    Why would you worry about dead particles called viruses?
    Can you see the logic?

    Viruses are neither alive nor dead in the conventional biological sense. I’ve seen these terms used, but they are misleading if not properly understood. Viruses are generally regarded as “active” or “viable” (meaning they have the ability to cause host cells to reproduce themselves), or they are degraded or nonviable, meaning they have lost this ability.

    Maybe it would help to think of a virus as like a wildfire – we speak of “live” fires, and they do replicate, and they cause damage to be feared, but biologically you can’t say fires are alive or dead.

  34. J-Mac: Do you want to know the truth? Yes or No?

    Incidentally, I’d also like to know what it would take for you to realize you’re wrong IF it should turn out you are wrong. As I said earlier, one of the best ways to “prove” covid is a scam, is to simply disregard any evidence conflicting with your conviction.

  35. The last time someone teased me with the truth, the vault was empty.

    This seemed like history rhyming.

  36. J-Mac:
    Step number 2.
    If there were a fake pandemic and the experts fell for it, they would have to kill people to make look like there was a pandemic, right?
    How do you do that?
    How do you fool experts, like DNA_jack?

    No ,it does not follow “ that (mistaken experts) would have to murder millions of people , given your premise that a faked pandemic might fool some experts. It is kind of silly argument to explain excess deaths. People in white coats knocking on doors like the grim reaper.

    Maybe you are the one who is being fooled. How would you even tell? Would you murder someone to support your position?

  37. J-Mac: Would you like to see the evidence that may get me banned for good?

    I can guarantee that actually presenting evidence will not result in a ban.

  38. J-Mac: Here is one of many emerging studies from UK.

    Thank you for the link — it was an awesome read!
    Although it isn’t really a ‘study’, or from the UK. It’s the unreviewed diatribe of a lone Aussie economist, and a beautiful example of p-hacking. My favorite bit was his self-citation of his previous unreviewed diatribe that he cited as “the Australian
    research which proved “vaccination kills” “. That study is even more comical.
    Thank you again — that was epic!.

  39. Heartfelt thanks to whomever it was that got the site to render embedded LaTeX again. I put a ridiculous amount of work into some of the posts containing that stuff.

    It seems only fair to contribute a brief post in return.

  40. What I would like to say is that in most of the “vaccinated” countries in the world against the “deadly” (0.2%) covid-19 disease, mainly younger, working people ,are dying at a much higher rate than during the so-called pandemic.
    I don’t expect the so-called experts, who jabbed themselves with so-called “mRNA vaccines”, who admitted to be injured by them, to be sympathetic to the reality that millions of people are dying worldwide and not from covid-19 , and nobody seems to know why. In other words, the so-called experts would like to believe that anything can kill but covid-19 vaccines…

  41. Alan Fox: I can guarantee that actually presenting evidence will not result in a ban.

    So, does it mean I can post a post without censorship if the evidence comes form Pfizer, CDC, FDA etc? And DNA_joke will not object because it may expose him as a ……

  42. Tom English:
    Heartfelt thanks to whomever it was that got the site to render embedded LaTeX again. I put a ridiculous amount of work into some of the posts containing that stuff.

    It seems only fair to contribute a brief post in return.

    I’m sorry? What is it that you are trying to say?

  43. I have question for the experts in the communicable diseases: If you were to fake a pandemic, how would you go about doing it?

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