Objects fall off kitchen counters in haunted flat!

This video is doing the rounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8rFGVFxhc

To those that believe in such things as ghosts and poltergeists (Clive @ UD I’m looking at you), does this video demonstrate that the realm of ghosts is real? If not, why not?

To the believers, is it possibly a real video or must it have been faked?

To those that don’t believe in such things, has this video converted you? Why not?

Is it relevant that the video was sourced from the Daily Mail? Does the messenger matter?

 

40 thoughts on “Objects fall off kitchen counters in haunted flat!

  1. Videos shouldn’t convince anyone of anything, however they do provide an impetus for a proper investigation. Then said investigation can confirm or debunk that video.

  2. Perhaps these were attempts by the designer to manipulate objects in the physical realm, but the scale was a bit off.

    Presumably, for example, ID supporters must in theory believe what is displayed in the video at a macro scale can also happen at a micro scale.

  3. Frankie: Read your previous comment- more likely than that, duh

    On what basis do you say that? I thought (according to you lot)
    immaterial Intelligent Designers existed and could move physical objects (e.g. DNA) whereas evolution does nothing as it’s just an after the fact assessment.

    The point is that here we have prima facie evidence of an unseen force moving physical objects, exactly as ID proposes, and you reject that explanation!

    Why?

  4. OMagain: The point is that here we have prima facie evidence of an unseen force moving physical objects

    We do indeed have this evidence for an unseen force here, at least for some of the movement. It’s called gravity.

  5. CharlieM: We do indeed have this evidence for an unseen force here, at least for some of the movement. It’s called gravity.

    Way to focus on the wrong thing.

  6. Mung: Would these things be more likely to happen in a haunted round?

    Hi-lar-ious as ever Mung. When you feel secure enough to offer an option, feel free to do so.

  7. I hate ghosts, because they knock things off of counters and never pick them up.

    I guess it’s easier to knock things off, especially if you want to make a youtube video of a “haunted house.” My God, there no way that it could be faked!

    Glen Davidson

  8. OM, ID isn’t anti-evolution and the video portrays what would happen if a blind person were walking about feeling his/ her way around.

    One option to explain what we see is simple- fishing line connected to the objects which is pulled by a person outside of the viewing range.

  9. To the believers, is it possibly a real video or must it have been faked?

    Don’t know, don’t care. I saw a ghost once with my own eyes. Hope I never see one again.

    I don’t believe most ghost stories, but I saw a ghost once, it wasn’t an optical illusion outside of my body since it didn’t happen in an environment amenable to optical illusions. The best explanation, naturalistically might be something akin to Charles Bonnet syndrome:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_release_hallucinations

    But I have none of the pathologies that would suggest I’m inclined to such things. Still that would be the best naturalistic explanation. At some point one has to decide if what one saw was real or an illusion. After studying more science, I’m inclined to believe ghost and miracles are rare, but real.

    I believe in some psychic phenomenon, although I think James Randi has proven it can’t be on demand, and it is rare. If psychic phenomenon were able to be invoked on demand, one could over-run the stock market or obliterate casinos or work industrial and military espionage to great effect. But since that doesn’t happen, I don’t think psychic phenomenon is on demand, so it doesn’t pay to hire psychics…

    Ghosts are creepy, that’s why I like science better. But I think ghosts are real. Since physicists occasionally talk about necessity of a dis-embodied intelligence based on quantum mechanics, it seems perfectly reasonable on theoretical grounds at least that spirits can exist.

    I wrote about it here:
    http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-quantum-enigma-of-consciousness-and-the-identity-of-the-designer/

    The necessity of something other than the material world is suggested by the quantum enigma since the regress of quantum collapse can be successfully terminated if one postulates non-material entities.

    See:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann%E2%80%93Wigner_interpretation

    The von Neumann–Wigner interpretation, also described as “consciousness causes collapse [of the wave function]”, is an interpretation of quantum mechanics in which consciousness is postulated to be necessary for the completion of the process of quantum measurement.

    Which is partly the bases of the quantum enigma:
    http://quantumenigma.com/wp-content/uploads/oxford-ad-2012.pdf

    So from a science standpoint, ghosts are at least theoretically justified as a possible necessity for the material universe…

    As far as the video, I wouldn’t use it to form my beliefs. However, as far as spooks and demons, I think this account from USA today is more credible:
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/27/family-possessed-seeks-exorcism/4939953/

    I think a percentage of UFO abduction accounts are carried out by demons, which could count as ghosts.

  10. stcordova: After studying more science, I’m inclined to believe ghost and miracles are rare, but real.

    What science indicates in any way that ghosts are real?

  11. OMagain: What science indicates in any way that ghosts are real?

    You’re asking that of a guy who thinks science indicates the Earth is only 6000 years old and that all extant species came from pairs on a big wooden boat that survived a mega-Flood.

  12. Adapa: You’re asking that of a guy who thinks science indicates the Earth is only 6000 years old and that all extant species came from pairs on a big wooden boat that survived a mega-Flood.

    And here I thought that extant species came here via demon abductions masquerading as alien abductions.

    How to know?

    Glen Davidson

  13. OMagain:

    What science indicates in any way that ghosts are real?

    I provided a links to the von Neumann-Wigner interpretation of quantum mechanics and a link to the 2005 article in the prestigious scientific journal Nature that suggests dis-embodied intelligence. You won’t find ghosts explicitly mentioned, but one can connect the dots if one is willing.

    As far as the video, I presume it was faked. Why would anyone who has had a actual encounter want to relive it?

    I also lend more credibility to stories that aren’t advertised widely.

    The former head of Harvard Medical School department of Psychiatry, John Mack researched UFO Abductions. This was on NOVA/PBS. I regard his testimony highly over random youtubes. But his descriptions of the abductions sound like demonic activity, if one is willing to see things from a different perspective:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/johnmack.html

    MACK: When I first encountered this phenomenon, or particularly even before I had actually seen the people themselves, I had very little place in my mind to take this seriously. I, like most of us, were raised to believe that if we were going to discover other intelligence, we’d do it through radio waves or through signals or something of that kind.

    The idea that we could be reached by some other kind of being, creature, intelligence that could actually enter our world and have physical effects as well as emotional effects, was simply not part of the world view that I had been raised in. So that I came very reluctantly to the conclusion that this was a true mystery. In other words, that I—I did everything I could to rule out other sources, or sexual abuse. Some of these people are abused. But they’re able to tell, distinguish clearly the abduction trauma from other forms of abuse. Some forms of psychosis or people making up stories—I could reject that on the basis that there was no gain in this for the vast majority of these people.

    I’ve now worked with over a hundred experiencers intensively. Which involves an initial two-hour or so screening interview before I do anything else. And in case after case after case, I’ve been impressed with the consistency of the story, the sincerity with which people tell their stories, the power of feelings connected with this, the self-doubt—all the appropriate responses that these people have to their experiences.
    ….
    People, in fact, have been observed to be missing at the time that they are reporting their abduction experiences. They return from their experiences with cuts, ulcers on their bodies, triangular lesions, which follow the distribution of the experiences that they recover, of what was done to them in the craft by the surgical-like activity of these beings.

    That said, one can decide for himself if this account is credible since the authors don’t have John Mack’s credentials:

    http://rense.com/ufo/spiritual.htm

    CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. – Imagine that alien abduction experiences and demons are equally real.

    The similarity between the abduction experience and demonic possession is very, very close,” says Joe Jordan of Cocoa, Brevard/Volusia state director for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), a widely respected clearinghouse for UFO-related research. “These (alien contact) experiences these people are having are real. It does exist. But you just need to understand what’s doing it.” Jordan and his partner, Wes Clark, have begun a research group called CE-4 (close encounters of the fourth kind, i.e. abductions), dedicated to studying alleged alien abductions. Its 15 members also belong to MUFON, but “nothing we do is necessarily sanctioned by them,” says Clark, a quality control engineer at Kennedy Space Center. MUFON principals did not respond to inquiries about CE-4’s unusual hypothesis, summarized by Jordan: “This whole thing is spiritual warfare. And the method the enemy’s using is deception. Strong deception.” In other words, entities really are abducting people against their will. Only, they’re not aliens from other planets. They’re demons from the pit of hell. Stop in the name of … Joe Jordan is addressing a “New Millenium Symposium” in Titusville. With his intense brown eyes and shoulder-length hair, he mingles easily with New Age folks who paid $44 to study pyramids, Mayan dreamspells, Lakota prophecies, and to hear Jordan’s talk about “UFO Abductions.” Jordan, who works in product development and engineering for Sea Ray Boats, speaks calmly, his voice firm, with good grammar and diction. Kooks don’t get to be state directors with science-oriented MUFON, for whom he has chased lights for seven years.

  14. stcordova: You won’t find ghosts explicitly mentioned, but one can connect the dots if one is willing.

    So, there’s no scientific research, rather there is research you interpret. Got it.

    Why don’t you “connect the dots” in this thread. I’m willing to be convinced.

  15. Mung: If they can fake a moon landing they can fake ghosts.

    If an empty shell of a person can fake being human, they can fake anything.

  16. First we would need an operational definition of Ghosts that we could all agree on. Right Patrick?

    If we define ghosts as unknown entities that apparently cause items to fall off of kitchen counters then the video obviously confirms their existence

    😉

    peace

  17. Objects falling off kitchen counters is not evidence for unseen forces at work.

    Besides, you need a mechanism.

  18. Mung: Objects falling off kitchen counters is not evidence for unseen forces at work.

    Besides, you need a mechanism.

    And of course you need to support your claim that unseen forces exist with evidence or retract it.

    Regardless of what we see in the video

    peace

  19. Mung: Objects falling off kitchen counters is not evidence for unseen forces at work.

    They were pushed by an Intelligent Designer. Disprove that.

  20. stcordova: I provided a links to the von Neumann-Wigner interpretation of quantum mechanics and a link to the 2005 article in the prestigious scientific journal Nature that suggests dis-embodied intelligence.You won’t find ghosts explicitly mentioned, but one can connect the dots if one is willing.

    Shorter Sal : “I can twist anything no matter how woo-filled to make it support my preconceived beliefs.”

  21. FMM,
    Quite. But that’s exactly what is being asked of “evolutionists”. Demonstrate that extant proteins arose without intelligent intervention! Demonstrate that an intelligent designer did not push those objects off!

  22. TristanM said:

    Missed your chance at 1 million dollars Sal

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

    I already acknowledge that. You pretend like I didn’t. I said:

    Sal:

    I believe in some psychic phenomenon, although I think James Randi has proven it can’t be on demand, and it is rare. If psychic phenomenon were able to be invoked on demand, one could over-run the stock market or obliterate casinos or work industrial and military espionage to great effect. But since that doesn’t happen, I don’t think psychic phenomenon is on demand, so it doesn’t pay to hire psychics…

    If it were on demand, there would be no reason to stop at 1 million dollar challenge would there, since the stock market can be taken with that kind of ability….

    But when you die, if I’m right, the question will be settled permanently for you.

    OMagain:

    Odd how “connecting the dots” never rises to the level of something actionable.

    There will be a day of reckoning. I respect that we never have all the facts we want, but I do have the satisfaction one day the issue could be permanently settled for you when your dead.

    If I’m wrong, I have no worries, a million years from now I won’t even be around to care, and you won’t even be around to gloat.

    But if I’m right, oh well, too bad for you. You ready to take that bet?

  23. stcordova:

    If I’m wrong, I have no worries, a million years from now I won’t even be around to care, and you won’t even be around to gloat.

    But if I’m right, oh well, too bad for you.You ready to take that bet?

    Kissing Hank’s Ass

    This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

    “Hi! I’m John, and this is Mary.”

    Mary: “Hi! We’re here to invite you to come kiss Hank’s ass with us.”

    Me: “Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who’s Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?”

    John: “If you kiss Hank’s ass, he’ll give you a million dollars; and if you don’t, he’ll kick the shit out of you.”

    Read the rest of Kissing Hank’s Ass here.

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