This video is doing the rounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8rFGVFxhc
To those that believe in such things as ghosts and poltergeists (Clive @ UD I’m looking at you), does this video demonstrate that the realm of ghosts is real? If not, why not?
To the believers, is it possibly a real video or must it have been faked?
To those that don’t believe in such things, has this video converted you? Why not?
Is it relevant that the video was sourced from the Daily Mail? Does the messenger matter?
It was considerate of the ghost to only fuck around with objects in frame.
Videos shouldn’t convince anyone of anything, however they do provide an impetus for a proper investigation. Then said investigation can confirm or debunk that video.
Perhaps these were attempts by the designer to manipulate objects in the physical realm, but the scale was a bit off.
Presumably, for example, ID supporters must in theory believe what is displayed in the video at a macro scale can also happen at a micro scale.
More likely it was the actions of a blind and unseen watchmaker
More likely then what Frankie?
Read your previous comment- more likely than that, duh
On what basis do you say that? I thought (according to you lot)
immaterial Intelligent Designers existed and could move physical objects (e.g. DNA) whereas evolution does nothing as it’s just an after the fact assessment.
The point is that here we have prima facie evidence of an unseen force moving physical objects, exactly as ID proposes, and you reject that explanation!
We do indeed have this evidence for an unseen force here, at least for some of the movement. It’s called gravity.
I won’t believe it unless it shows a levitating priest.
Would these things be more likely to happen in a haunted round?
Way to focus on the wrong thing.
Hi-lar-ious as ever Mung. When you feel secure enough to offer an option, feel free to do so.
I hate ghosts, because they knock things off of counters and never pick them up.
I guess it’s easier to knock things off, especially if you want to make a youtube video of a “haunted house.” My God, there no way that it could be faked!
OM, ID isn’t anti-evolution and the video portrays what would happen if a blind person were walking about feeling his/ her way around.
One option to explain what we see is simple- fishing line connected to the objects which is pulled by a person outside of the viewing range.
It’s not just like a fishing reel.
ATPase, of course, is.
Don’t know, don’t care. I saw a ghost once with my own eyes. Hope I never see one again.
I don’t believe most ghost stories, but I saw a ghost once, it wasn’t an optical illusion outside of my body since it didn’t happen in an environment amenable to optical illusions. The best explanation, naturalistically might be something akin to Charles Bonnet syndrome:
But I have none of the pathologies that would suggest I’m inclined to such things. Still that would be the best naturalistic explanation. At some point one has to decide if what one saw was real or an illusion. After studying more science, I’m inclined to believe ghost and miracles are rare, but real.
I believe in some psychic phenomenon, although I think James Randi has proven it can’t be on demand, and it is rare. If psychic phenomenon were able to be invoked on demand, one could over-run the stock market or obliterate casinos or work industrial and military espionage to great effect. But since that doesn’t happen, I don’t think psychic phenomenon is on demand, so it doesn’t pay to hire psychics…
Ghosts are creepy, that’s why I like science better. But I think ghosts are real. Since physicists occasionally talk about necessity of a dis-embodied intelligence based on quantum mechanics, it seems perfectly reasonable on theoretical grounds at least that spirits can exist.
I wrote about it here:
The necessity of something other than the material world is suggested by the quantum enigma since the regress of quantum collapse can be successfully terminated if one postulates non-material entities.
Which is partly the bases of the quantum enigma:
So from a science standpoint, ghosts are at least theoretically justified as a possible necessity for the material universe…
As far as the video, I wouldn’t use it to form my beliefs. However, as far as spooks and demons, I think this account from USA today is more credible:
I think a percentage of UFO abduction accounts are carried out by demons, which could count as ghosts.
That’s true of an H-bomb, too. Not as commonly experienced as gravity either.
Yes, things fall down. It’s possible to get used to it.
What science indicates in any way that ghosts are real?
You’re asking that of a guy who thinks science indicates the Earth is only 6000 years old and that all extant species came from pairs on a big wooden boat that survived a mega-Flood.
And here I thought that extant species came here via demon abductions masquerading as alien abductions.
How to know?
I provided a links to the von Neumann-Wigner interpretation of quantum mechanics and a link to the 2005 article in the prestigious scientific journal Nature that suggests dis-embodied intelligence. You won’t find ghosts explicitly mentioned, but one can connect the dots if one is willing.
As far as the video, I presume it was faked. Why would anyone who has had a actual encounter want to relive it?
I also lend more credibility to stories that aren’t advertised widely.
The former head of Harvard Medical School department of Psychiatry, John Mack researched UFO Abductions. This was on NOVA/PBS. I regard his testimony highly over random youtubes. But his descriptions of the abductions sound like demonic activity, if one is willing to see things from a different perspective:
That said, one can decide for himself if this account is credible since the authors don’t have John Mack’s credentials:
Take a drink.
If they can fake a moon landing they can fake ghosts.
So, there’s no scientific research, rather there is research you interpret. Got it.
Why don’t you “connect the dots” in this thread. I’m willing to be convinced.
If an empty shell of a person can fake being human, they can fake anything.
Why? What would a real video look like? Different? How?
First we would need an operational definition of Ghosts that we could all agree on. Right Patrick?
If we define ghosts as unknown entities that apparently cause items to fall off of kitchen counters then the video obviously confirms their existence
Objects falling off kitchen counters is not evidence for unseen forces at work.
Besides, you need a mechanism.
And of course you need to support your claim that unseen forces exist with evidence or retract it.
Regardless of what we see in the video
They were pushed by an Intelligent Designer. Disprove that.
Shorter Sal : “I can twist anything no matter how woo-filled to make it support my preconceived beliefs.”
Why exactly would one want to?
Missed your chance at 1 million dollars Sal
Quite. But that’s exactly what is being asked of “evolutionists”. Demonstrate that extant proteins arose without intelligent intervention! Demonstrate that an intelligent designer did not push those objects off!
Odd how “connecting the dots” never rises to the level of something actionable.
I already acknowledge that. You pretend like I didn’t. I said:
If it were on demand, there would be no reason to stop at 1 million dollar challenge would there, since the stock market can be taken with that kind of ability….
But when you die, if I’m right, the question will be settled permanently for you.
There will be a day of reckoning. I respect that we never have all the facts we want, but I do have the satisfaction one day the issue could be permanently settled for you when your dead.
If I’m wrong, I have no worries, a million years from now I won’t even be around to care, and you won’t even be around to gloat.
But if I’m right, oh well, too bad for you. You ready to take that bet?
Kissing Hank’s Ass
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:
“Hi! I’m John, and this is Mary.”
Mary: “Hi! We’re here to invite you to come kiss Hank’s ass with us.”
Me: “Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who’s Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?”
John: “If you kiss Hank’s ass, he’ll give you a million dollars; and if you don’t, he’ll kick the shit out of you.”
Read the rest of Kissing Hank’s Ass here.
In what order?
I hate angels, because they knock up your daughters and never pay child support.
Haha. The one in which the robot arm travels the shortest distance, of course.