…the noyau, an animal society held together by mutual animosity rather than co-operation
Robert Ardrey, The Territorial Imperative.
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The Skeptical Zone
"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken."
Approve of his job performance ?
They think they’re off the hook so long as they slept in that day. Therefore they can tell everyone just how great (or at least harmless or better than any Democrat would have been) Trump is now with complete impunity.
Such bullshit.
No doubt,so when evangelicals bemoan the moral decline of America they mean it is bad unless it serves their interests and pays lip service to them.
What does that have to do with anything?
I thought this was all about his moral character (or lack thereof).
As your hero would say, “Sad!”
walto,
62,979,879 voted for Trump do you think that they all are reprehensible?
Nope I can’t stand the guy
I do know good honest folks that did vote for him and I understand some of their reasoning for doing so.
I’m certainly not defending Trump.
I don’t approve but I’m pleasantly surprised that things are not as bad as I expected them to be.
peace
The friends of my enemies, etc.
Instead of making excuses for the guy here, go win over some of your buddies.
When folks bemoan moral decline they are saying that things have gotten worse. As far as I can tell Trump (and Clinton) have always been morally bankrupt.
peace
I’m doing the best I can.
Ive repeatedly suggested that your side pick a better candidate next time and I’m pleading with you to tone down the vitriol against folks who are different than you.
If things don’t change rapidly in that regard I really don’t see how we will avoid another term of the trumpster.
peace
I don’t have much say, but I was not a Hillary Clinton supporter or a Bernie Sanders supporter. I want them both to go the fuck away. (I am also not an Elizabeth Warren supporter.) But any of these people, for all their (numerous) faults, are miles superior to Trump. Believe it or not my favorite active candidate in the last election might have Fiorina–until she lost her guts and endorsed a guy who made fun of her looks.
That’s a non-starter, I take the harm being done a lot more seriously than you do. It’s not shoulder-shrugging stuff IMO.
I honestly think polarization has reached a point of no return already. So it’s just a matter of making sure minorities are allowed to vote and that their vote is counted. Gerrymandering reduced as much as possible. Republicans obviously can’t be trusted in those areas.
But there’s no longer a successful “median voter” position in American politics, and I’ve come to doubt that there will be one again in my lifetime.
Speaking of the Tennessee Waffle House.
Instead of dwelling on hot button issues like race or guns meant to divide us.
How about both sides getting together and reforming our mental health system so that dangerous nut jobs are less likely to be out on the street in the first place.
Just saying.
peace
What kind of reforms?
Fine, There is a big difference between being upset at Trump’s actions and being upset at poor working class folks who just wanted someone to finally pay attention to the suffering in their communities for a change.
Not to go off on a tangent but the solution to the problem is federalism.
The folks in Arkansas just don’t have the same views or interests as those in Connecticut.
It would be better if the power was closer to the people.
peace
Maybe so, you think lending support to morally bankrupt Trump is making it better or worse?
“Among people who said they voted for Trump in the general election, 35 percent had household incomes under $50,000 per year (the figure was also 35 percent among non-Hispanic whites), almost exactly the percentage in NBC’s March 2016 survey. Trump’s voters weren’t overwhelmingly poor. In the general election, like the primary, about two thirds of Trump supporters came from the better-off half of the economy.
I knew there was something about you I liked.
Perhaps American evangelical Christianity has always been morally bankrupt.
I don’t know. It needs to be a collaborative process.
If I was king I would say that the authorities need to take the suspicions and concerns of family and community more seriously in these cases.
Perhaps we could utilize technology to keep better track of folks who have repeated issues with mental health.
As a person of faith I’d like to see some sort of system where concerned volunteers could step in and support the patient and family and also provide a set of compassionate eyes that might be better able to see dangerous behavior before it’s too late.
I think we can all agree that mental illness is a common denominator in these tragedies. It’s just not a sexy as gun control and does not get the political bases riled up.
peace
As apposed to lending support to morally bankrupt Clinton? I’d say it’s a wash.
peace
Perhaps.
It’s called total depravity and it’s a key tenet of Calvinism 😉
peace
Fiorina was my second choice. I would have loved it if she was the nominee.
There were lots of good choices. How did we end up with having to decide between Scylla and Charybdis?
peace
here is a graph to give you an idea of where Evangelicals fall on the income scale
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-religious-groups/
Most of the Trump voters I know are just plain lower middle class working folks who feel that no one in Washington cares about their plight.
They are keeping their heads above water but it just keeps getting harder for them with each passing year.
They feel the establishment republicans are concerned about the very wealthy and democrats are concerned about the illegal immigrants who are taking their jobs and the Hollywood elite who are always looking down at them.
peace
she’s not in the picture anymore. Trump has been president for a year, yet every time someone criticizes anything he’s doing you bring up hillary Clinton. It’s nonsensical. The choice is not between supporting Trump and supporting clinton–it’s between supporting Trump and opposing him.
We only get to “support” a president once every 4 years. Our support at that time is measured against the apposing candidate.
The rest of the time our opinion is simply irrelevant to his power.
As far as opposition goes if Trump proposes some legislation that I strongly oppose. I will inform my representatives of my position.
Till then I will mostly ignore what the pinheads in Washington do. Life is too short.
peace
Don’t get too excited. Liking her better than the rogue’s gallery of Trump, Cruz, Paul, Clinton, Carson, etc. isn’t that big a deal. Low bar.
Not true. That would have been shutting the fuck up. But no,.You defend Trump here at every opportunity . Although, again, your defense generally consists of idiotically chanting ‘Hillary Clinton’ over and over again, just like the guys you say you’re not. (And just as Patrick did before the election. To be fair, it made at least a smidge of sense then.)
So, again, in spite of your tepid denials, you are no different from all the other Trump supporters. Blindly loyal.
I recommended that you shut the fuck up, but it was more important to you to continue to argue–and here, you’re simply arguing on behalf of an ignorant, obnoxious tyrant. That’s not ignoring the pinheads.
No I’m defending the poor slobs you are attacking.
The great unwashed low-church Christian folks you blame for your political troubles.
I will soon enough.
First I will once again recommend that if you want a better result next election cycle you spend a little less time and effort demeaning the little guy in flyover country while pretending you are speaking truth to power.
peace
Just a reminder of what started this discussion
quote:
Obviously, thanks are due to the white evangelicals right here at TSZ for making our country great again!
Cloud cuckoo land has room for lots of styles of batshittiness, Lord love it!
end quote
walto the idealistic political junkie
peace
You don’t mention that I linked an article showing support for Trump among white evangelicals at 75-25. You say you don’t blame them for that support (now–not when hillary mattered). That’s the side you’re on. Mung too. I think they’re smart enough to know better. You two apparently don’t.
That is not exactly correct, politicians in the legislative branch read the polls, the House is elected every two years.Money dries up. Rats fleeing the ship. But like you said you don’t approve of him you just think It is ok to.
Exactly. Both sides doesn’t work with Trump, he is a nuclear armed freak show.
What do you think “support” means? Do you think they are providing him with weapons or coffee cakes?
“Support” in this case simply means that they are unaware of anything that Trump has done while in office that would cause them to regret their decision 2016.
That is why I asked for specific information that would cause someone to abandon him.
I did not vote for Trump and I can’t stand him and if a decent challenger comes forward I will vote against him in the next primary but he has done nothing I’m aware of to make me particularity wish that Hillary was our president.
I seems that in your mind that makes folks like me bats***t crazy and equivalent to the racist thugs in charlottesville.
It’s that attitude that I’m challenging.
peace
yes and if Trump had introduced legislation that was unpopular he would hear about it.
Trump is not up for election. I don’t particularity like my Representative either but I think he is running unopposed again. Funny how that works
Trump does not need the money of run of the mill evangelicals and as I showed yesterday they don’t have much to spare as a rule.
There are rats in both ships. The ones in Trump’s usually get fired before they have time do much damage.
peace
It means that, they say nice things about him, that he’s doing a fine job. It means that, when asked, they say they’ll vote for him again. It means that they’ll send him a few bucks to help with his reelection campaign. It means that they want “a wall.” It means that they think there were fine people on both sides at Charlotte. It means that they argue endlessly and nonsensically with people like me on the internet. It means that they prefer generally supportive gibberish (usually involving mentioning Hillary Clinton over and over again) even to silence.
You know goddam well what it means.
Oh the horror
peace
Some Penguin news for Liz…
http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/seals-caught-having-sex-penguins/
So we can effect the President’s power beyond every four years.
Is that a product of gerrymandering? In that case you would need to put pressure of your state level politicians.
He needs the evangelical organizations to provide free outreach which would cost the Republicans money otherwise. They are donating labor.
But we are talking about legislators, if Trump became radioactive and hurt their fundraising, his power over those legislators is diminished. As would the elimination of the challenge of a Trump sponsored primary opponent.
But this is a waste of time , evangelicals like agenda of Trump and are willing to embrace Trump’s immorality if they get something in return. There is a word for that
Yet evangelical organizations only notice the rats which are not providing goodies for them. Seduced by secular power. All for a Supreme Court Justice. And not having to sell cakes to gay folks.
Maybe Hillary made Trump hire the bad ones, maybe she should be locked up.
Look how they are dressed, they are asking for it.
I wonder if the children of those evangelicals are noting their parent’s double standards.
Brainwashed parents; brainwashed kids.
I am curious, fifth: of the “just plain lower middle class working folks” Trump voters that you know, what proportion are comfortable with his claim that there were “fine people on both sides” in Charlottesville?
You skipped over that bit.
Me too! Except the bats***t crazy part. I have to be crazy to post here.
They will just keep sputtering nonsensical red herrings, endlessly. (But what about Hillary?? She smells like herring!!)
No ,what he is saying 70+ of evangelicals support someone who claims some racist thugs are good people, the question is why?
My own white-hot take is that conservative evangelicals support Trump for one reason and one reason only: because he can be counted on to nominate Supreme Court justices who will vote to overturn Roe vs Wade.
Think about it from their point of view: if abortion is murder, and stopping this modern-day holocaust is the greatest moral challenge of our time, then why not support a xenophobic, misogynistic, narcissistic buffoon if he can be counted on to stop the holocaust?
No doubt there’s a good deal of truth to that, KN.
FWIW, I have lately been coming to a fairly weird position regarding abortion, myself. I’m not in anybody’s camp on this. I won’t go into it here, but will just say that if you don’t believe in “rights,” (and I don’t) then the two main views on this matter will both be wrong. And if you’re not a utilitarian (and I’m not that either), you knock out at least one other pretty widely held held view on the matter.
Anyhow, it’s a very interesting issue. So fraught though….
Why do you need to? You’re a male, no? What possible right have you to an opinion whether a woman should carry a pregnancy to term? It is a woman’s risk, a woman’s responsibility and a woman’s choice. And in the US, the risk of dying from being pregnant is three times the risk elsewhere in the developed world.
According to this, anyway!
What possible right does he have to hold an opinion?
Indeed!
TSZ just keeps getting more and more weird.