Noyau (2)

…the noyau, an animal society held together by mutual animosity rather than co-operation

Robert Ardrey, The Territorial Imperative.

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2,941 thoughts on “Noyau (2)”

  1. newton: I guess in the case of an amoral, lying , grifter they made an exception which is their choice.

    Choosing an amoral, lying , grifter who claims to be on their side over an amoral, lying , machiavellian who has demonstrable disdain for them and their interests seems like a no brainer.

    If nothing else a consistent prolifer is already happy with his supreme court choice.

    peace

  2. walto: Maybe it’s because he’s recently come out for abstinence education–an area in which he’s obviously expert.

    Perhaps the adulterous affair with a porn star was just research.

  3. walto: it’s important to note that Hillary Clinton [AKA the devil incarnate] is no longer running

    What exactly in your opinion has Trump done while in office to make evangelicals drop their support for him?

    I just don’t think that most folks pay the sort of attention to the everyday happenings in the beltway that you apparently do.

    Franky I can’t stand the guy but I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that he has done to make folks like me who voted for him likely to change their mind.

    The closest thing I can think of is that farmers don’t like his protectionism but that is offset by other working class folks who are happy that he is putting tariffs on imported steel.

    I will say that Trump pressed the right buttons as far as Evangelicals go when Billy Graham passed away. It would have helped your side out a lot if more democrats would have had kind words to say at that time.

    peace

  4. newton: Perhaps the adulterous affair with a porn star was just research.

    Evangelicals stood by Bush when he made policy mistakes simply because they felt he was a moral man. Perhaps they finally learned their lesson.

    peace

  5. fifthmonarchyman: Perhaps they finally learned their lesson.

    There certainly seems no lack of cynicism and the ability to turn a blind eye to Trump’s amorality. Just seems not very compatible with the teachings of Jesus, somehow.

  7. Alan Fox: There certainly seems no lack of cynicism and the ability to turn a blind eye to Trump’s amorality.

    I don’t think Evangelicals think of Trump as one of their own so they aren’t too interested in his personal morality as long as he does not force it on them or demand their acceptance of his actions as morally correct.

    I would say they think of Trump like the Israelites thought of Cyrus the great, as a rank pagan who’s interests sometimes correspond with their own.

    peace

  8. walto: They don’t care about corruption, the environment, diplomacy, or the rule of law. Got it.

    Care to elaborate? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to most of that. Can you list some specifics?

    peace

  9. fifthmonarchyman: Care to elaborate? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to most of that. Can you list some specifics?

    peace

    Please. Read any newspaper. Pick any day from the last year.

  10. fifthmonarchyman: I don’t think Evangelicals think of Trump as one of their own so they aren’t too interested in his personal morality as long as he does not force it on them or demand their acceptance of his actions as morally correct.

    They display tacit approval by their support and votes and campaign contributions. In fact they hope that Trump will force their morality on others.

    I would say they think of Trump like the Israelites thought of Cyrus the great, as a rank pagan who’s interests sometimes correspond with their own.

    Cyrus was not elected by the votes of the Israelites, they did not contribute to his campaign, they did not show up at his rallies.

    peace

  11. fifthmonarchyman: Evangelicals stood by Bush when he made policy mistakes simply because they felt he was a moral man. Perhaps they finally learned their lesson.

    Power and fear trumps morality?

  12. walto: Please. Read any newspaper. Pick any day from the last year.

    So you don’t have any actual specifics in mind

    newton: Power and fear trumps morality?

    More like there are more important factors when it comes to a President than his personal morality.

    peace

  13. newton: They display tacit approval by their support and votes and campaign contributions.

    So you are saying that political or business support should be conditioned on your opinion of a person’s sex life?

    newton: Cyrus was not elected by the votes of the Israelites, they did not contribute to his campaign, they did not show up at his rallies.

    I’m sure they would have if they could have.

    quote:
    who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.'”
    (Isa 44:28)
    and
    “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and his arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken and called him; I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way.
    (Isa 48:14-15)

    end quote:

    peace

  14. fifthmonarchyman: So you don’t have any actual specifics in mind

    More like there are more important factors when it comes to a President than his personal morality.

    peace

    Haha. Another snakehole invitation. I get enough of those from keiths, thanks. You know damn well what I’m talking about. Every sentient person in this country does. Pick an agency, a secretariat, a regulatory area, any fucking thing. I’m not making you a list. What would be the point?

  15. walto: More like there are more important factors when it comes to a President than his personal morality.

    Honesty perhaps would be important, respect for the constitutional form of government, not using the office for personal for personal enrichment, what are the important factors that have nothing to do with the President’s integrity for you?

    Why should you trust someone who cheats on on his wives, is under suspicion of physical assault of women, makes a habit of stiffing contractors, defrauded students, defrauded investors to follow through on those factors?

  17. walto: I’m not making you a list. What would be the point?

    I honestly don’t know of anything that Trump has done while in office that should cause his supporters to abandon him. I’m not laying a trap I’m just telling you what I know. I truly think that you pay a lot more attention to this stuff than your average Joe.

    I can tell you that Trump should be prohibited from using twitter and that there is a special council looking into Russia collusion other than that it does not seem like a lot is going on in Washington. Certainty nothing to panic over.

    I think you might be spending too much time fixated on things you can’t change. Relax get out doors and soak in some sunshine. This too shall pass and sooner than you think.

    peace

  18. newton: Honesty perhaps would be important, respect for the constitutional form of government, not using the office for personal for personal enrichment

    Those are precisely the things that caused me to vote against Clinton.

    I would guess that the folks who voted for Trump figured that it was six of one and a half dozen of the other so you might as well vote for some one that claims to be on your side.

    newton: Why should you trust someone who cheats on on his wives

    I don’t think anyone trusts Trump to do anything but look after his own interests. The thing is that working class whites decided that Trump’s interests more closely mirrored their own than Clinton’s did.

    newton: Sure, everyone loves a tyrant.

    No, but if you have to choose between two tyrants generally folks pick the one that claims to be on their side. If the choice is between Cyrus and the king of Babylon Cyrus will get the vote every time.

    Listen this is not rocket science If you want a different result I suggest you pick a better candidate next time.

    peace

  21. walto: Take a look at what has happened at the EPA and State, and then get back to us.

    What happened at the EPA and State? Are you upset about the bureaucratic shuffling and budget cuts at various government agencies?

    Come on, surely you have more important things to worry about.

    Bureaucrats come and go and funding can be replaced next election cycle if need be.

    Why should any of that cause consternation in poor folks in West Virginia struggling to make ends meet?

    peace

  22. You didn’t look, did you? Just responded with uninformed nonsense. This confab is over until you do your homework.

  23. fifthmonarchyman: Why should any of that cause consternation in poor folks in West Virginia struggling to make ends meet?

    “The EPA’s action allows the state to adopt language similar to an earlier proposal that had been dubbed the “Cancer Creek Bill.” That bill was first discussed in the Legislature decades ago, because it could potentially increase the discharge of toxic chemicals into West Virginia’s waterways. The bill was signed into law April 8, 2017. Advocates of the law argued that it would create new jobs.”

    Luckily they still have healthcare

    “Repealing the ACA: Hurting Our Health and Our Economy,” released Tuesday, says not only 184,000 West Virginians would lose health insurance, but the state’s weak economy could falter with the loss of billions of dollars of federal funds.

    An estimated 16,000 jobs would be lost by 2019 and nearly 350 million would be lost in tax revenue over five years. The Urban Institute estimates West Virginia would lose14 billion in federal funds between 2019-2028, including $12 billion supporting Medicaid/CHIP.”

    Lucky bastards to have Trump.

  24. walto: You didn’t look, did you?

    I googled “Trump and the EPA” and “Trump and the State department”. the search returned stories about budget cuts and bureaucratic musical chairs. Nothing that would cause a Bible thumper to freak out.

    Like I said I think you are fixated on stuff that just doesn’t matter much in the long run.

    peace

  25. newton,

    I have personal experience with the EPA during Obama’s tenure.

    It’s a very long story but the gist is

    They drained a wetland that I own simply because they had not taken the time to do appropriate testing before hand and would not listen to me the property owner.

    Once the damage was done and they found that I was correct all along they simply and quickly pulled up stakes and moved on leaving me to try and restore what was lost.

    I for one would be happy if the EPA focused more on their core mission.

    As far as healthcare goes.

    My company was forced to drop it’s good insurance because it was deemed by the government to be a “Cadillac plan” and now I have a plan with a very high deductible and less coverage than I did before. Needles to say I’m not a big fan of Obama care.

    These are my personal experiences your mileage may vary.

    peace

  30. walto: Well you care about what affects you, FM, that’s clear.

    Not at all, it’s just that I know more about what affects me and those I hang with. If the only time I have direct experience with an organization they show callous disregard I am not as apt to trust them to be better when I’m not involved.

    walto: First thing that came up when I did.

    I was looking for news articles. Like this.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+and+the+EPA&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjvi5rMotHaAhUPRa0KHcakChcQ_AUICigB&biw=1079&bih=553

    Of course the exact content was different yesterday.

    walto: I’m discovering that you kind of suck, FM. My advice is for you to shut the fuck up.

    Wow, I never expected that sort of thing from you

    Sorry If Ive done anything to offend you. It certainly was not my intention.

    Have a good day

    peace

  31. Some people are still smarting over the Hillary defeat. Got to find SOMEONE to blame.

  32. Mung: Some people are still smarting over the Hillary defeat. Got to find SOMEONE to blame.

    I blame Hillary herself and the establishment politicians who would not settle on a decent alternative when they had the chance.

    Like I said. I can’t stand Trump and I will be glad when he is gone but I generally don’t blow my top about it. I just don’t choose to give a single person that much power over me. Getting all worked up about something that you can’t control is a recipe for a heart attack.

    Look on the bright side Trump is not Bashar al-Assad or Nicolás Maduro. It could have been much worse.

    If I had any advise for democrats who want to avoid this sort of thing in the future it would be to not to ignore the concerns of folks who are different than you.

    peace

  36. fifthmonarchyman:
    FYI

    I just discovered that Trump’s reelect numbers are similar to Obama and Clinton at this time.

    http://news.gallup.com/poll/233000/trump-elect-figures-similar-obama-clinton.aspx

    If this sort of thing is that big of deal to you It might be a good idea to try and court some Evangelicals instead of alienating them.

    Just saying

    peace

    Yeah, I c,an see you and mung are ripe for the plucking. You won’t even read any articles that suggest that your hero is a corrupt doofus. Can’t find one apparently. You’ll no more consider that truth than you will those of science.

    So, there’s really no point, you know? I simply hadn’t realized quite how far gone you were until now. Disappointing, but that’s life.

    Have a nice day.

    Blessings, etc.

  37. walto: So, there’s really no point, you know? I simply hadn’t realized quite how far gone you were until now. Disappointing, but that’s life.

    Somebody had to vote for him,get buckled up for Iran, the war cabinet has been assembled. A lot of potential for mischief.

  38. fifthmonarchyman: I just discovered that Trump’s reelect numbers are similar to Obama and Clinton at this time.

    Good, both lost the House at midterms. Without the House, let the fun begin.

    If this sort of thing is that big of deal to you It might be a good idea to try and court some Evangelicals instead of alienating them.

    It is not us, it is you.You support a real danger to the country, why should we change for you?

  39. newton: Good, both lost the House at midterms. Without the House, let the fun begin.

    I agree, Things are always better with a little divided government. Like I keep saying this too shall pass.

    walto: You won’t even read any articles that suggest that your hero is a corrupt doofus.

    Everyone (even evangelicals) knows he is a corrupt doofus. That is not even at issue.

    My only point was that it’s not the end of the world.

    newton: why should we change for you?

    So perhaps your candidate can win next time.

    A little civility and political flexibility toward folks who are different than you in exchange for political power doesn’t seem like such a bad deal.

    Maybe that is just me. Perhaps you like the status quo.

    Peace

  40. walto: I simply hadn’t realized quite how far gone you were until now.

    Was it my lack of fixation on political matters or my unwillingness to join in your silly berating of decent folks who simply voted for the other guy that caused your opinion of me to worsen?

    peace

  41. fifthmonarchyman: decent folks who simply voted for the other guy

    You mean the ones marching at Charlotte with swastikas? The ones who think Mexicans are breeding racists? The ones who don’t care about the raping of the environment? The ones who think it’s ok for a president to spend all day every day golfing, tweeting insulting nonsense, and stealing everything that’s not nailed down? The ones who are fine with nepotistic hires of unqualified thieves to top tiers in government? The ones who think lying is just fine so long as its Republicans that are doing it? The ones who think that the solution to gun violence is to have more guns around, even give them to teachers while in school?

    The ones like you?


  42. DeVos rescinds 72 guidance documents outlining rights for disabled students

    The Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services wrote in a newsletter Friday that it had “a total of 72 guidance documents that have been rescinded due to being outdated, unnecessary, or ineffective — 63 from the Office of Special Education Programs (OSEP) and 9 from the Rehabilitation Services Administration (RSA).” The documents, which fleshed out students’ rights under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act and the Rehabilitation Act, were rescinded Oct. 2.

    A spokeswoman for Education Secretary Betsy DeVos did not respond to requests for comment.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2017/10/21/devos-rescinds-72-guidance-documents-outlining-rights-for-disabled-students/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.55dcb2514547

  43. walto: Yeah, like eight of them.

    Like eight out of every one hundred. 🙂

    And if instead they had voted for Hillary would we be having this conversation?

    You’d have to find another reason to hate white christian evangelicals I suppose.

  45. Mung: Like eight out of every one hundred.

    Wow, impressive!! You’ve picked up a few dunderheads among Jews and Blacks. Good going!

    As I’ve said there are also a few non-idiots among white evangelicals. Too bad you two can’t be found among them.

  46. walto: As I’ve said there are also a few non-idiots among white evangelicals. Too bad you two can’t be found among them.

    I love you walto 🙂

  49. Mung: And if instead they had voted for Hillary would we be having this conversation?

    You’d have to find another reason to hate white christian evangelicals I suppose.

    No, we would be discussing the impeachment.

  50. newton: No, we would be discussing the impeachment.

    Right. That’s one good thing about this presidency, IMO. It’s like a huge retching from the right that had to get out. And there’s a chance, though maybe it’s small, that, as a result, the system will not be entirely poisoned by this accumulation of disgusting bile.

    I wish I were more optimistic, but…..

    Anyhow, that’s something, I guess.

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