Is Design a Stochastic Process?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic

Researchers use the term stochastic systems to describe the physical systems in which the values of parameters, measurements, expected input, and disturbances are uncertain

Would we expect different designers to create different designs? Does the same designer ever design competing solutions? Why is that? What factors inform a design decision and outcome?

Outside of hard determinism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_determinism) isn’t everything a stohastic process?

196 thoughts on “Is Design a Stochastic Process?”

  2. Frankie: It would have to have tool marks or some other hallmark of design. But as it stands it can accounted for by erosion and other non-design processes.

    Do you apply that reasoning to biological organisms? That they would have to have “tool marks” to be suspected of being the product of a designer?

  3. Fair Witness: Do you apply that reasoning to biological organisms? That they would have to have “tool marks” to be suspected of being the product of a designer?

    Yes, I do and CSI, SC and IC are hallmarks of Intelligent Design.

  7. So dazz is ignorant of Dembski’s books? And it thinks that is somehow an argument?

    Really?

  11. Frankie: So dazz is ignorant of Dembski’s books?

    Dembski recently ‘quit’ ID I believe. At least the mathematician in him finally recognised a losing streak.

  14. Richardthughes:
    OMagain,

    He’s got the next generation to secure his legacy: Joe, Phoodoo…

    Marks’s current doctoral student at Baylor is Eric Holloway, who seems to me a man of the Fifth Monarchy. I’d ordinarily say that the ID movement is scraping the bottom of the barrel, and filling the pipe with sludge. But, in present context, that’s somewhat of an overstatement.

  15. You know you are winning when your opponents harp on typos and gossip like little old ladies…

  18. Frankie: Retiring is not the same as quitting. He is just withdrawing from active participation.

    What practical difference is there?

  19. Richie:

    Joe’s been creating his own ‘intelligent design’ guff where he claims first you must rule out stochastic processes.

    Now we all know that isn’t true as the references support my claim.

    Whoopsie, Richie

  21. LoL! @ Richie- No this reference that you choked on and tried to say there are supernatural stochastic processes:

    Instead, ID tells us whether there is reason to think that something was designed rather than being the product of natural stochastic processes.

    and this one from Dembski:

    (ie a chance-law combination, or what we just called a stochastic process)- page 168

    And all the rest that can be found at the link I provided

    But I know you will never admit to that

  22. I know that Richie loves to ignore comments and prattle on as if he hasn’t been refuted, so here it is, again:

    Richie quotes Dembski:

    Page 168: “Stochastic processes can model everything from Darwin’s mutation-selection mechanism to the probabilistic algorithms of computer science”

    Yes, natural selection and drift are stochastic processes. That is what I have been saying. Did you have a point? Obviously not…

    Whoops it doesn’t say what Richie thinks it says.

  23. Richardthughes,

    The question whether design is a stochastic process is interesting. In order to be a stochastic process it must first be a process.

    Per Webster:

    a systematic series of actions directed to some end:
    to devise a process for homogenizing milk.

    I think where design parts from being a process is the word systematic. A process takes an input or several inputs and systematically modifies those inputs and produces and output.

    In general processes are the product of design.

    In industry processes are improved by systematically using the scientific method to improve performance and reduce output variation. The execution of the scientific method can result in a design modification once the cause of a suboptimal output is identified by data collection and root cause analysis.

  24. Frankie,

    Gosh your dull. From….to. a range of things that are stochastic. the “to”?:
    “probabilistic algorithms of computer science”

    Do you contend these are not designed?

  25. “Stochastic processes can model everything from Darwin’s mutation-selection mechanism to the probabilistic algorithms of computer science”

    And what does that include, Richie? Please be specific and show your work. And try to keep it in context as Dembski already said that stochastic processes are a combination of laws and chance (design is not).

  26. Also Richie missed the opening words:

    Stochastic processes can model … He probably doesn’t understand what they mean…

  28. Mung: Some processes are more stochastic than others?

    Can I buy a stochastimeter?

    Yes, but it only works randomly

  29. OK, so design is not a stochastic process and the ID leaders agree with me that first you must rule out stochastic processes before considering design.

  30. Frankie,

    OK, so design is not a stochastic process and the ID leaders agree with me that first you must rule out stochastic processes before considering design.

    I don’t think design is process let alone a stochastic one. Design typically takes on the form of a custom project.

    The result of this project may be indeed a process. I am skeptical that you could get a repeatable process without design.

  32. Mung: Some processes are more stochastic than others?

    Can I buy a stochastimeter?

    (a range of things) (that are stochastic)

    not

    (a range of) (things that are stochastic)

  33. colewd:
    Frankie,
    I don’t think design is process let alone a stochastic one.Design typically takes on the form of a custom project.

    The result of this project may be indeed a process.I am skeptical that you could get a repeatable process without design.

    Well design is a mechanism and a mechanism is a process or method for achieving a result.

  35. Frankie:
    OK, so design is not a stochastic process and the ID leaders agree with me that first you must rule out stochastic processes before considering design.

    Design doesn’t have to be a stochastic process to use stochastic process. The design of the game of blackjack.

  36. colewd: I don’t think design is process let alone a stochastic one. Design typically takes on the form of a custom project.

    What is a custom project?

    The result of this project may be indeed a process. I am skeptical that you could get a repeatable process without design.

    Sometimes you can’t get it with design. Could you expand this?

  39. Yeah, I sometimes experience that here at TSZ when I randomly hit Ignore Commenter and ignore someone who doesn’t really deserve it.

    LMAO!

    What are the odds?

  40. newton,

    What is a custom project?

    An example of a custom project is designing a new type of computer. It gets planned with a gantt chart and many of the steps must be thought through from scratch. A project is something you typically do once a process is repeated.

  41. newton,

    Sometimes you can’t get it with design. Could you expand this?

    Usually a process is optimized by using the scientific method to reduce process variation. The scientific method is part of design optimization.

  42. colewd:
    newton,

    Usually a process is optimized by using the scientific method to reduce process variation.The scientific method is part of design optimization.

    How does that apply to say turning a clay pot?

  43. newton,

    How does that apply to say turning a clay pot?

    You could think about the cause of process variation that are killing your semiconductor yields while you are turning your pot.:-)

  44. colewd:
    newton,

    You could think about the cause of process variation that are killing your semiconductor yields while you are turning your pot.:-)

    Probably would impair the design of the pot.

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