ID is Dead (Again)

Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.”

If that’s not enough to convince the reader that Elizabeth is no prophet, there’s aways other things we can point to.

UD is still chugging along, as is the Discovery Institute. Michael Denton has a new book coming out soon, as does Douglas Axe. BIO-Complexity continues to publish. More of the incredible design of the living world is being revealed daily.

ID Is Dead. But perhaps like the proverbial cat it has more than one life.

451 Replies to “ID is Dead (Again)”

  1. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Alan Fox: How could we test that, I wonder.

    Only one way- put us in the same room and give us the same test

  2. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry OM, you don’t make it though the noise filter

  3. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: As for the Creationists they say the diversity today evolved from the originally created kinds

    Presumably those created kinds were not created all that long ago? What do those Creationists say about that?

    And are you not disproving your case by referencing that? After all, the diversity evolved, you did not say designed! It evolved? And if such diversity can evolve and even creationists can see it then, well, you know any ex-creationists at all?

    After all, who can deny the evidence that it all evolved, even if you then wrap that up in “kinds” created directly to soften the blow?

    So don’t throw the baby out Frankie! Creationists say the diversity evolved? Then no need for your intelligent designer at all then! God created the world and the ‘kinds’ and then the rest happened on it’s own. No need for any ‘Intelligent Designer’. Sorta leaves you out in the cold!

  4. Richardthughes Richardthughes
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: Only one way- put us in the same room and give us the same test

    Why is same room a requirement? Many tests are administered at multiple locations.

  5. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: Only one way- put us in the same room and give us the same test

    There are online tests that can be taken. The confidence you have in your abilities is directly proportional to the restrictions you place on any test of them!

  6. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: Sorry OM, you don’t make it though the noise filter

    Chuckle. Enjoy it while it lasts.

  7. Robin Robin
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    says:

    Frankie: Your problem is you think you can bluff your way through a discussion.

    I don’t have to bluff, Joe. The article is in English and is understandable to anyone who understands a bit of science.

    That you cannot make your case says it all.

    I have made my case. You’ve yet to offer any rebuttal. All you say is, ” that article in no way, shape or form tested any hypothesis wrt natural selection being able to produce a BF”, but that’s just a strawman and does not address the actual research.

    The link you provided inno way addresses a hypothesis of NS wrt to any BF.

    …and there it is again…

  8. Robin Robin
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    says:

    Frankie: I know what the current thinking is.

    Not according to what you’ve written.

    And no, I did not say that tertapods arose from fish.

    Right…fishapods. That’s still wrong.

  9. Robin Robin
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    says:

    Frankie: A common design explains the similarities.

    Any testing for that? Oh…what am I saying. ID doesn’t do any research…

    Nice assertion though, Joe.

    There is no way to validate the claims of those papers. They all assume common descent.

    LOL! You’re funny Joe. You should present that at a science symposium sometime. I doubt the room would be able to get control of their laughter for a good half hour or more.

    I take it by your humorous response that you have no rebuttal or valid comment against any of those studies. Figures. So I provide actual research testing the concept and you think your assertion that “There is no way to validate the claims of those papers” is somehow supposed to…what…make the evidence somehow nonexistent?

    I feel for you Joe; windmills are really tough to tilt against…

  10. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Robin: I don’t have to bluff, Joe. The article is in English and is understandable to anyone who understands a bit of science.

    I have made my case. You’ve yet to offer any rebuttal. All you say is, ” that article in no way, shape or form tested any hypothesis wrt natural selection being able to produce a BF”, but that’s just a strawman and does not address the actual research.

    …and there it is again…

    You have never made a case, Robin. The research just shows conservation, ie similarity, between different flagella. That doesn’t support NS. And what I posted is not a strawman nor can you make the case that it is.

  11. OMagain
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    says:

    Frankie: And according to Neil Shubin, fish-a-pods is right.

  12. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: And according to Neil Shubin, fish-a-pods is right.

    There are two search results for Neil Shubin and fish-a-pods, and one of them is to UD! So support your claim.

  13. Frankie Frankie
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    says:

    Robin:

    Umm common design is observed throughout the design world. We have actual experience with it. And anyone who laughed at what I said would get the chance to rebut or get a foot in the mouth. And when they were unable to rebut everyone would be laughing at them.

  14. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: That doesn’t support NS.

    Neither does it support ID. Nobody ever seems to do that.

  15. OMagain
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    says:

    Frankie: Umm common design is observed throughout the design world.

    Therefore ID!

  16. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Robin: Any testing for that? Oh…what am I saying. ID doesn’t do any research…

    Nice assertion though, Joe.

    LOL! You’re funny Joe. You should present that at a science symposium sometime. I doubt the room would be able to get control of their laughter for a good half hour or more.

    I take it by your humorous response that you have no rebuttal or valid comment against any of those studies. Figures. So I provide actual research testing the concept and you think your assertion that “There is no way to validate the claims of those papers” is somehow supposed to…what…make the evidence somehow nonexistent?

    I feel for you Joe; windmills are really tough to tilt against…

    The studies assume common descent and try to find evidence that supports it. There is no way to validate the claims of the studies.

    I feel for you- too gullible to not see the obvious

  17. Richardthughes Richardthughes
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    says:

    OMagain: Umm

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site:intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com+umm

    “Finding Tard ancestry through vocabulary limitations”, Hughes 2016.

  18. Robin Robin
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie:
    Robin,

    Read it. There isn’t anything that supports your claim

    Unsubstantiated assertion. Try again Joe.

    I bet I know more than you

    Maybe about Caek, toasters, and ticks and watermelon, but on biology…your posts on doing much to support such a claim there Joe.

  19. Alan Fox Alan Fox
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: Umm common design is observed throughout the design world.

    Where is design world to be found?

    We have actual experience with it.

    Who is “we”?

    And anyone who laughed at what I said would get the chance to rebut or get a foot in the mouth. And when they were unable to rebut everyone would be laughing at them.

    M’kay. That sounds like a threat. I hope I’m misreading. Would Joe like to clarify what he means by “get a foot in the mouth”.

  20. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Richardthughes: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site:intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com+umm

    “Finding Tard ancestry through vocabulary limitations”, Hughes 2016.

    My prediction is Frankie will go quiet for a bit now….

  21. Richardthughes Richardthughes
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    says:

    OMagain,

    No, we’re both on ‘ignore’. Honest 😉

  22. Frankie Frankie
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    says:

    Alan Fox,

    Alan, grow up. How can someone threaten in a HYPOTHETICAL scenario?

    Do tell

  23. Alan Fox Alan Fox
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie,

    That’s not a clarification.

  24. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Alan Fox,

    Where is design world to be found?

    You are living in it. Cars, computers, houses built to the same code, anything following IEEE standards- just everything I have already told you about.

    Who is “we”?

    Humans who are not imbeciles

  25. Richardthughes Richardthughes
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    says:

    Frankie,

    Especially in places that don’t really exist!

  26. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Alan Fox:
    Frankie,

    That’s not a clarification.

    No need for one in a HYPOTHETICAL scenario.

  27. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Robin,

    LoL! All bluff and bluster, robin, gets flustered when exposed.

  28. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: How can someone threaten in a HYPOTHETICAL scenario?

    Yes, because a meeting of two or more people could never happen…

  29. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Thank you, Mung. I owe you a beer or a bottle of Jack. Your choice

  30. Richardthughes Richardthughes
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie:
    Thank you, Mung. I owe you a beer or a bottle of Jack. Your choice

    Huh?

  31. Alan Fox Alan Fox
    Ignored
    says:

    Richardthughes,

    I think that might have been meant for another venue.

  32. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: You are living in it. Cars, computers, houses built to the same code, anything following IEEE standards- just everything I have already told you about.

    Yet here you provide this quote to argue the opposite:

    Regardless of what is eventually learned about the evolution of Clarkia/Heterogaura, the complex nature of evolutionary processes yields patterns that are more complex than can be represented by the simple hierarchical models of either monophyletic systematization or Linnaean classification. page 34, Eric B. Knox, “The use of hierarchies as organizational models in systematics”, Biological Journal of the Linnean Society, 63: 1–49, 1993

    So we are living in design world where things are designed to IEEE codes, and at the same time biology is evidence for design despite it being too complex to represent with simple hierarchical models (wot like design presumably would be able to be represented by).

  33. newton
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie:
    Thank you, Mung. I owe you a beer or a bottle of Jack. Your choice

    Perhaps a 2015 double bastard in the rye.

  34. Robin Robin
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie:
    Robin,

    LoL! All bluff and bluster, robin, gets flustered when exposed.

    Fuck you and your false accusations.

    You were saying something about “flustered”? Hmmm…

  35. Robin Robin
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: Umm [human] common design is observed throughout the [human] design world. We have actual experience with [human design].

    FTFY.

  36. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Robin: FTFY.

    Another distinction without a difference

  37. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Robin:
    You were saying something about “flustered”? Hmmm…

    Hmmm, yes your continued false accusations has that effect. I bet it will work on you, too. From now on I will just start accusing you of shit as opposed to actually responding to you

  38. OMagain
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: From now on I will just start accusing you of shit as opposed to actually responding to you

    Could you make sure you label what you are doing, otherwise it may be hard to tell you’ve changed over.

  39. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Earlier I had said that ID adds intention and purpose, to which Robin disagreed. However intention and purpose are synonyms of “design” which means they are inherent with ID.

  40. Mung Mung
    Ignored
    says:

    Function and purpose are inherent in all living organisms. Any biology that denies this is a joke.

  41. Adapa
    Ignored
    says:

    Mung:
    Function and purpose are inherent in all living organisms. Any biology that denies this is a joke.

    What is the function and purpose of Vibro Vulnificus, also called the flesh-eating bacteria? Besides making copies of itself which is the “purpose” of all living things?

  42. Richardthughes Richardthughes
    Ignored
    says:

    Adapa,

    Duh! The fall!

  43. Robin Robin
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie:
    Earlier I had said that ID adds intention and purpose, to which Robin disagreed. However intention and purpose are synonyms of “design” which means they are inherent with ID.

    Exactly Joe! And ID doesn’t add intention or purpose as a characteristics of the world; it just assumes they’re there! So ID doesn’t actually add anything to our knowledge of the world; it just assumes the world is as it describes it. Woooo…hooo..

  44. Robin Robin
    Ignored
    says:

    Mung:
    Function and purpose are inherent in all living organisms. Any biology that denies this is a joke.

    Great! So ID doesn’t add anything to our understanding of living organisms then Mung! Couldn’t agree more! Thanks Mung!

  45. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Robin: Exactly Joe! And ID doesn’t add intention or purpose as a characteristics of the world; it just assumes they’re there! So ID doesn’t actually add anything to our knowledge of the world; it just assumes the world is as it describes it. Woooo…hooo..

    Wrong- ID adds it, it doesn’t assume it. It is inherent to the concept.

  46. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Robin: Great! So ID doesn’t add anything to our understanding of living organisms then Mung! Couldn’t agree more! Thanks Mung!

    What does blind watchmaker evolution add? Do tell

  47. Kantian Naturalist Kantian Naturalist
    Ignored
    says:

    Mung:
    Function and purpose are inherent in all living organisms. Any biology that denies this is a joke.

    Sure, but that tells us nothing at all about whether intelligent design is a good explanation of function and purpose.

  48. Frankie Frankie
    Ignored
    says:

    Kantian Naturalist: Sure, but that tells us nothing at all about whether intelligent design is a good explanation of function and purpose.

    You don’t have anything that can explain it.

  49. Robin Robin
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: Wrong- ID adds it, it doesn’t assume it. It is inherent to the concept.

    *Sigh*

    If it’s an inherent to the concept of ID, then ID doesn’t add it to any understanding of our world Joe. It’s just part of the ID definition.

    Geez Joe…can’t you get your own arguments consistent?

  50. Robin Robin
    Ignored
    says:

    Frankie: What does blind watchmaker evolution add? Do tell

    I don’t know or care what “blind watchmaker evolution” is.

    Actual Evolutionary Theory as used in science, however, adds a great deal:

    http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/id-is-dead-again/comment-page-5/#comment-105941

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