Questions for Christians and other theists, part 5: Satan

satan

Pope Francis believes in Satan:

VATICAN CITY (RNS) As millions of revelers around the world dress in ghoulish costumes to mark Halloween and the darker side of life, Pope Francis warned that the devil is no myth and must be fought strenuously with “God’s armor.”

Francis described Christian life as a continuous battle against Satan during his homily at morning Mass at the Vatican on Thursday (Oct. 30).

“This generation, and many others, have been led to believe that the devil is a myth, a figure, an idea, the idea of evil,” the pope told the faithful during Mass at the St. Martha guesthouse where he lives inside the walls of the Vatican.

“But the devil exists and we must fight against him.”

Theists, do you agree with the Pope?

A question for those who do: If God is omnipotent, he could crush Satan like a bug at any time. Why doesn’t he?

34 thoughts on “Questions for Christians and other theists, part 5: Satan

  1. They’re drinking buds. Sometimes one of them will say, hold my beer and watch this. Then someone turns into a pillar of salt, or breaks out in pussy welts.

  2. Maybe Behe can tell us how Satan poof-evolved from leprechauns or the like. Crucially, were goats involved?

    Or was Satan made like you’d expect of a realistic Creator/Designer, in a geologic instant?

    I see this as a place where ID can make a meaningful contribution. Or at least as meaningful as possible within the confines of their delusions.

    Glen Davidson

  3. Pope Francis:

    But the devil exists and we must fight against him.

    Catholics, what do you think of the Pope’s claim? Vjtorley? StephenB? Mung?

    And why is God on such good terms with Satan?

    6 One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the Lord, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them. 7 “Where have you come from?” the Lord asked Satan.

    Satan answered the Lord, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.”

    8 Then the Lord asked Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless—a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil.”

    9 Satan replied to the Lord, “Yes, but Job has good reason to fear God. 10 You have always put a wall of protection around him and his home and his property. You have made him prosper in everything he does. Look how rich he is! 11 But reach out and take away everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face!”

    12 “All right, you may test him,” the Lord said to Satan. “Do whatever you want with everything he possesses, but don’t harm him physically.” So Satan left the Lord’s presence.

    Job 1:6-12, NIV

    God clearly isn’t fighting Satan. Why does the Pope think that we should?

  4. Satan is true. He entered the snake and now the snake was cursed more and lost its legs.
    Satan prompts man to do evil things. In genesis the prophecy was Jesus would destroy the snake.while being bite on the ankle.
    God had to deal with Satan by Jesus cross death. he can’t smush him. Later.

  5. Robert Byers:

    God had to deal with Satan by Jesus cross death. he can’t smush him.

    I thought God was supposed to be omnipotent.

    Besides which, Jesus already died. The battle has already been won, supposedly. Why is Satan running around raising hell (so to speak) if he’s already been defeated?

  6. keiths:
    Robert Byers:

    I thought God was supposed to be omnipotent.

    Besides which, Jesus already died.The battle has already been won, supposedly.Why is Satan running around raising hell (so to speak) if he’s already been defeated?

    defeated in major points. Not finished yet. something like that.
    by the way this YEC is confident Satan was behind all the impacts below ther k-t line and the great flood.
    That was his murdering work. In fact all people are killed by sAtans work according to the bible.

  7. Robert:

    defeated in major points. Not finished yet. something like that.

    If God is omnipotent, he can finish Satan off right now. Why doesn’t he?

    by the way this YEC is confident Satan was behind all the impacts below ther k-t line and the great flood.

    The Bible says otherwise:

    7 And the Lord said, “I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing—all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them.”

    Genesis 6:7, NIV

    I thought you accepted the Bible as truth, Robert.

  8. keiths:
    Robert:

    If God is omnipotent, he can finish Satan off right now.Why doesn’t he?

    The Bible says otherwise:

    I thought you accepted the Bible as truth, Robert.

    God takes the responsibility and the control yet satan does the deed. As the book of Job teaches. Always its this equation.
    so , i think, DSatan brought the flood and this was hinted at in the book of revelation.
    god never hurts creation himself.

  9. keiths:
    So you think the Bible got it wrong.Does your pastor know about this?

    the bible didn’t get it wrong. Its the source for my conclusion.

  10. Byers:

    the bible didn’t get it wrong. Its the source for my conclusion.

    The Bible contradicts your conclusion.

    You wrote:

    god never hurts creation himself.

    That’s not what the Bible says:

    13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

    Genesis 6:13, NIV

    And:

    21 The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though[a] every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done. [Emphasis added]

    Genesis 8:21, NIV

    Again, does your pastor know that you doubt the truth of the Bible?

  11. keiths,

    i know it says that. its famous. Yet it doesn’t mean god did it. only he takes credit for it for allowing it fior his motives. Satan didn’t get to destroy for his motives although, i say, he did all the work.
    god takes responsibility for our sicknesses but its not because he does it.
    remember the book of job and lots of places.
    god never destroys or hurts his creation on earth.
    he doesn’t kill everybody although he allows it and so its his responsibility.
    Satan kills everybody.

  12. How is “he doesn’t kill anybody” reconcilable with “… I destroy all living creatures …”?

  13. Robert,

    You’re in denial.

    Those verses are absolutely clear: it was God who did the destroying.

    It’s amusing to see a YEC denying the truth of the Bible. But it’s also an important first step. I encourage you to keep questioning!

  14. Robert Byers: god never destroys or hurts his creation on earth.

    No, a global flood that killed everything on the planet bar 1 family and their goats is not destruction, killing or harm!

  15. Richardthughes,

    Richardthughes:
    How is “he doesn’t kill anybody” reconcilable with “… I destroy all living creatures …”?

    As said before. he takes responsibility for the killing because he could stop it. YET he doesn’t do it himself. Satan does all killing of biology
    if god didn’t say he was responsible opponents would accuse him of not being in control of who gets killed. he is in control. yet he doesn’t do the dirty deed.
    even on passover the angel of death was a operation to allow satan’s work. It wasn’t the angel that did it.

  16. keiths:
    Robert,

    You’re in denial.

    Those verses are absolutely clear: it was God who did the destroying.

    It’s amusing to see a YEC denying the truth of the Bible.But it’s also an important first step.I encourage you to keep questioning!

    God takes responsibility because he doesn’t stop it. his allowance however is not the cause. only Satan does it. always the bible is consistent on this.
    Otherwise accusers would say god doesn’t have the power to stop Satan or see the allowance as happenchance. so god takes credit as it were. he allows and so only this allows death. yet he doesn’t do it.

  17. OMagain: No, a global flood that killed everything on the planet bar 1 family and their goats is not destruction, killing or harm!

    Thats my point. satan destroyed the planet with the flood. God allowed for his agenda. so its his punishment to remove protection .Yet , i say, the book of revealation says sAtan did it. I read that in it and it makes better sense. Also for the reason how the flood used the moving waves to do the real destruction. Not mere drowning.

  18. only Satan does it.

    That’s not what the Bible says, Robert. Again and again, it says that God killed and destroyed.

    For example:

    And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done. [Emphasis added]

    Either

    1) you are wrong; or
    2) the Bible is wrong; or
    3) God is lying in that passage.

    Which do you pick?

  19. Robert Byers: Thats my point. satan destroyed the planet with the flood. God allowed for his agenda. so its his punishment to remove protection

    Provide a quote to support your argument then! The book is presumably right in front of you…

  20. WHO CAUSES DISASTERS: GOD OR SATAN?

    Nowhere in the Bible can I find a passage which clearly attributes power over weather, natural phenomena or disastrous events to Satan. Satan is sometimes called the god or prince of this world (2 Cor 4:4, John 12:31, 14:30, Eph 6:12), but his precise powers in connection with these titles are not named anywhere, other than the power to tempt and deceive. One passage calls him the “prince of the power of the air” (Eph 2:2), but the meaning is not clear, and does not seem to mean that he has power over the weather, but rather that he flies about and can be anywhere. Paul punishes sinners by handing them over to Satan (1 Cor 5;5, 1 Tim 1:20), but if it is God who punishes sin (as many Bible passages say), then Satan is here only doing God’s bidding. Only one passage (Heb 2:14) says that Satan “had the power of death,” but it is in the past tense, and refers to Christ’s having conquered death, so that does not refer to death which continues to occur nowadays from disease or disaster.

    Thus, Satan’s powers seem to be extremely limited, and it is God, and God alone, who sends the floods, earthquakes, storms, plagues and other “natural” disasters, according to the Bible. And whatever power Satan has, it must be with God’s permission, or God would not be omnipotent. Even if one tries to make God look better by saying that these things are usually caused by the forces of nature, one ultimately gets back to the Creator of Nature and his complete ability to prevent the disasters.

    http://packham.n4m.org/disaster.htm

  21. keiths: That’s not what the Bible says, Robert. Again and again, it says that God killed and destroyed.

    For example:

    Either

    1) you are wrong; or
    2) the Bible is wrong; or
    3) God is lying in that passage.

    Which do you pick?

    The line fits with what I said. God killed only by way of Satan. He takes credit as it were. Otherwise satan could not do it. Yet Satan did the deed.

  22. keiths:

    That’s not what the Bible says, Robert. Again and again, it says that God killed and destroyed.

    For example:

    And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done. [Emphasis added]

    Either

    1) you are wrong; or
    2) the Bible is wrong; or
    3) God is lying in that passage.

    Which do you pick?

    Robert:

    The line fits with what I said. God killed only by way of Satan.

    No, Satan is not mentioned in that passage. God says that he destroyed all living creatures.

    It’s good that you’re doubting the truth of the Bible, though!

  23. Robert:

    The book of Job explains it. many verses say satan causes the evil things.

    Interestingly, the book of Job is the only book in which Satan actually kills anyone.

    God’s personal death toll is much more impressive. Yahweh knew how to destroy, that’s for sure!

  24. keiths:
    Robert:

    Interestingly, the book of Job is the only book in which Satan actually kills anyone.

    God’s personal death toll is much more impressive.Yahweh knew how to destroy, that’s for sure!

    nope. its only made clear how it happens by the special case of a conversation revealed.
    it shows how all killings take place. Job was not special.

  25. Robert,

    As OMagain said:

    Provide a quote to support your argument then! The book is presumably right in front of you…

  26. Everyone should remember the intellectual equation here.
    If God can save people from being killed, for example, then the point would be why doesn’t he.
    If Satan did all the killing ever done then why, like in Jobs case, did god only save some and not others?
    God is aware of this accusation.
    Its like a case where if we saw a lion headed to kill some kids and we shut the door that saves some kids but not the other door and those kids get killed.
    is god the killer or the lion.
    God agrees he is responsible for the dead kids because he could of shut the door. Yet didn’t.
    So he says he is the one who killed them. yet it really was the lion on its own agenda.
    Thats what the bible says.
    God never killed anyone but takes responsibility as if he did.
    It means also any interference by him with satan is a extra act of love. Another issue.
    Watch the math here.

  27. Robert,

    So he says he is the one who killed them. yet it really was the lion on its own agenda.

    Now you’re saying that God is lying. Are you sure you want to go there?

  28. keiths:
    Robert,

    Now you’re saying that God is lying.Are you sure you want to go there?

    no lie. its accurate in settling who is still the boss. Yet there is a equation.

  29. Robert,

    In Genesis, God says that he destroyed all living creatures. You say it was Satan. Who’s right, you or God?

    Hint: the correct answer is ‘neither’. The Flood is a myth.

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