Dishonesty is the defining characteristics of Trump and his administration, and lies are a daily occurrence. While there are far too many lies to track, I thought a thread dedicated to the worst and most notable lies would be useful. There’s a lot of material to choose from.
(I could have tapped into a rich vein of lies simply by linking to Trump’s Truth Social account — hence the OP title.)
Flint,
I was referring to the discussion here about Trump lying or not. All the other things you mention matter too, of course.
Trump being a liar by nature, it is his normal mode to lie. He does not need any motive to lie. Instead, he needs a motive or a good reason to not lie. And he has stated what could possibly limit him: His own morality. Which he does not have. So there’s nothing to stop him.
Allan Miller,
Or possibly let’s just ignore the part where he was mistaken. One who brings up the point of lazy labels should probably refrain from using them repeatedly.
It isn’t a ‘lazy label’. He lied about his uncle teaching Kaczynski. It is plain. I don’t have the cult’s desperate need to sanitise his every false statement with weasel words. He was highly specific about the interaction. He lied.
Why does this man make so many false statements? Care to hazard a guess? Is he senile, you think? Stupid? Or maybe… he lies?
How may times did he win Minnesota? He says 3. Is he mistaken? Or lying.
colewd:
Lol. We show that Trump is lying. Bill consults his “how to avoid the evidence” list and starts throwing out bogus excuses:
“lazy label!”
“propaganda!”
“independent voters!”
“what about Biden and Harris?”
“biased sources!”
“you’re partisans!”
“how are you helping the Democrats?”
“burden shift!”
“ad hominem!”
…etc
There’s nothing lazy about calling Trump a liar, Bill. We’ve inundated you with evidence that he is.
You aren’t fooling anyone except possibly yourself. Be brave and answer my questions:
Allan Miller,
Allan, you know there is no proof by assertion.
You ask why questions when you have not established the premise. Your reasoning is circular.
There was no reason for Trump to lie about his uncle teaching the Unabomber. There was a reason for him to lie about Epstein. This is a reasonable standard for intent.
colewd,
Are you an Islamophobic?
Clearly there WAS a reason to lie about this, since he did. Finding a reason is entirely speculative. Maybe the unabomber happened to cross his mind and he associated this with the first thing he remembered – that his uncle was a teacher. Maybe it’s some twisted need for reflected glory. Maybe he was just confused. Maybe he was fishing for something so obviously stupid it would distract from Epstein or whatever the Trump Screwup Of The Day happened to be at the time. Maybe he was trying to associate himself with someone famous. Who knows? Mary Trump says he lies for sport. If so, then he doesn’t necessarily lie to deceive, but because HE is deceived.
Time for some psychologizing. This discussion has been going on since April. Bill shows up here day after day, and he gets his ass handed to him day after day. He wants to defend his Dear Leader, but he can’t, so he either runs away or else lobs false accusations at us (like accusing Allan of circular reasoning above). I truly can’t think of a single time that he’s scored a point in this debate.
So why does he keep showing up? Is he a masochist who enjoys humiliating himself? Does he not realize that every time he runs away from our questions or refuses to discuss the evidence we’ve presented, that he is admitting defeat? That his efforts only make Trump look worse, because everyone knows how much he would love to prove us wrong if he could, yet he never succeeds?
I think he keeps showing up despite the humilation because either
1) he wants to signal his loyalty to Trump, despite the fact that he knows that what we’re saying about his Dear Leader is true. It’s a form of costly signaling since it’s so embarrassing to be blindly and slavishly devoted to a loser like Trump, but he feels compelled to do it because he is a cult member who will remain loyal to his Orange Daddy even when he knows the ugly truth; and/or
2) he is plagued by cognitive dissonance and wants to prove to himself that Trump is actually worthy of his worship. This drive is so strong that it outweighs the humiliation that he endures.
If it’s #1, he knows that we’re right. But if it’s #2, there’s an interesting possibility. He may be so emotionally welded to Trump that he is unshakeably convinced, deep down in his heart of hearts, that Trump is actually a great man. He comes here convinced of that, and the strength of his conviction gives him confidence that he can defend Trump. When we prove him wrong, time after time, he can’t accept it. He knows that Trump is worthy of worship, so when we show him that Trump is actually a dishonest, weak, insecure, childish, amoral, unintelligent and incompetent man, he just knows that we have to be wrong. If the evidence shows that Trump is all of those things, then the evidence just has to be incorrect. Or maybe reality itself is defective. Trump is wonderful, and if reality shows otherwise, then reality is wrong. So he comes back time after time thinking “This time I’ll show them!” when there is zero chance that he’ll be able to do so.
I don’t know which it is, but I do know this: it’s pitiful either way.
Circular reasoning – another concept you do not grasp.
You’re inventing standards on the fly. “If I can think of a reason for him to lie, it’s a lie, otherwise it is not anything worth consideration”.
Do you apply this standard to any other human being on the planet?
How many times did he win Minnesota? 2 or 3? Why does he say 3? Does he have a reason to say 3? Or is that (heh) ‘circular reasoning’?
There is a possible reason #3: he is just toying with you. He keeps going to see how long it will take you to understand that this is indeed what he is doing.
If this is the case he has scored plenty so far.
faded_Glory,
I think the term is ‘trolling’. It is certainly a possibility.
faded_Glory:
True. But if he’s trolling, he’s been trolling us for years, and maybe even for a decade (at TSZ, Uncommon Descent, and Peaceful Science). That’s one monomaniacal troll!
Time for some wisdom of the ages. First, you can fool some of the people all of the time. Second, it is far easier to fool people than to get them to admit they’ve been fooled.
Trump on Truth Social:
The latest figures show that only 5% of the people detained by ICE are violent criminals.
Trump and his administration have provided zero evidence that the “thugs” are paid agitators.
Trump Says London Is Unsafe. Its Murder Rate Just Hit a Historic Low.
keiths,
As I’ve mentioned, 3 things Americans ‘know’ about the UK: Knife crime, Sharia Law, and “they can’t say anything”.
Yet our per capita knife death rate is less than the US despite their weapon of choice being firearm; agreeing to Sharia Court is like going on Judge Judy; and we can say what we like short of calling for murder, riot or OTT racism, which is not a freedom most of us desire.
Wasn’t there some study showing that the crime rate among illegal immigrants was less than that of citizens? Which makes sense – you don’t stay under the radar by committing crimes.
I don’t understand why they haven’t paid someone to be an agitator just to have some evidence. My guess is, evidence doesn’t actually mean anything to them. They have no idea what it’s for.
“NATO has been telling Denmark for 20 years that ‘the Russian threat must be removed from Greenland.’”
This, I submit, is a lie. Or, if you prefer, a misremembering. An inadvertent untruth from a man not accurately briefed. A statement not fully congruent with the reality of the situation.
Flint,
You’re getting the cart before the horse. No one has established this as a lie. If it is entirely speculative to judge his motive you do not have a provable lie.
Allan Miller,
Circular reasoning is simply assuming your conclusion. Flint above fell into the same trap you have. There is one established lie here and a claim of 30000. When do you realise you have become part of a leftist propaganda machine? Repeating the lie claim when you have not established it is propaganda.
J-Mac,
Islamophobic is a is a lazy label in the words of Allan Miller.
colewd:
Trump is not a liar, and we have always been at war with Eastasia.
ETA: I’ve noticed that you spell “-ize” words with ‘-ise’. You ain’t one of them commie pommies, are you?
faded_Glory,
Pretty close to the truth but my hope is that at some point this could turn into a real discussion. With unestablished pseudo facts asserted as facts there is little chance of anyone learning something valuable.
It already is a real discussion, except for you. You’re a brainwashed Q/MAGA/Nazi cultist who fails to contribute even comic relief.
According to the Cato Institute (so your lazy moronic “left bias” accusation does not apply), among the DHS data of “worst of the worst” detained and deported by ICE, 84% have zero criminal record. And those deported to the CECOT prison in El Salvador are not even in the data, so evidently they are not the worst of the worst https://www.cato.org/blog/dhs-doesnt-list-cecot-deportees-its-worst-worst-data
colewd,
Since you think Trump is not a liar, here are some fill-in-the-blank questions for you to run away from:
1. Trump is not a liar. The actual reason he talks about a conversation he never had with his uncle who never taught Ted Kaczynski and never described how Kaczynski went around correcting people is because __________.
2. Trump is not a liar. The actual reason he talks about trying out for major league baseball, though he didn’t, and trying out alongside Willie McCovey, which is impossible, is because _____________.
3. Trump is not a liar. The actual reason he talks about Obama, Clinton, Comey and Brennan creating the Epstein files is because ____________.
4. Trump is not a liar. The actual reason he said that Renee Good “violently, willfully, and viciously ran over the ICE Officer”, when that didn’t happen, and that the officer was recovering in the hospital, which was false, and that “it is hard to believe he is alive”, when a police report says there were no visible injuries, is because _________.
There are plenty more, but let’s see how you
handlerun away from these.Which I didn’t do. I asked you a question. If he doesn’t lie, what accounts for his many untrue statements? Attempting gotchas on logical fallacies doesn’t suit you.
Question dodged. How can we get beyond 1 if you refuse to look and bleat ‘circular reasoning’ and ‘propaganda’ instead?
How many times did he win Minnesota? He says 3. What’s the truth?
It’s never going to turn into a real discussion while you keep bleating ‘propaganda’. Have you established it’s propaganda? No, of course you haven’t. “Criticism of my glorious leader must be propaganda. No other possible explanation”. You assume it’s propaganda.
Fat chance. You are not interested in the motives of your interlocutors and you don´t take their arguments seriously. Despite all of your superficial politeness you clearly don’t respect them. But to be fair, you are not getting a lot of respect yourself either.
Corneel, to colewd:
I’d happily accept disrespect from Bill in exchange for an actual debate. It’s his cowardice that annoys me. Getting him to confront the evidence is nigh impossible, and he’s afraid to answer my perfectly reasonable questions about why he thinks Trump isn’t lying when he says things like the four I described above.
keiths,
I don’t think cowardice is quite the right word. Obtuseness might be better. A coward wouldn’t keep coming back. I think most observers – ‘onlookers’ – would agree that this ultra-stubborn defence of Trump in the truth stakes goes beyond the rational. His relationship with the truth is so clearly and widely regarded as a distant one (not an assertion; based on evidence repeatedly presented) that an extreme defence of it has us blinking. We plug away in our own obstinate way, convinced that the 3,000th time’s the charm. Cos no-one could be that extreme in defence… could they?
I see parallels with virus deniers and other conspiracists. It is plain that no evidence could convince them; they frame the issue in such a way that they could not be convinced in those terms. And those of us on the other side think “surely… surely … no-one could really be that impervious to reason, so far to one extreme on the scale of reasonable objectivity?” Well, guess what…
Allan:
I agree with ‘obtuse’, but I think ‘cowardly’ also applies.
But a non-coward would answer questions and respond to challenges instead of ignoring them, changing the subject, or running away. Bill is like a patient who is brave enough to show up at the dentist every day but flees as soon as he hears the sound of the drill.
It’s astounding when you see it up close. If there are any onlookers who don’t think Bill is being irrational, I’d love to hear from them.
I gave up on persuasion long ago. It’s all about fascination now, plus he’s helping us make our case. The fact that even an extreme fanboy like Bill can’t defend Trump against our criticisms, despite trying for nine months, is telling.
Bill reminds me of the diehard believers in a prophecy who stake everything on it and are crushed when it fails. (Think of the recent failed Rapture prophecy. There were people who sold or gave away everything they owned in preparation.) With that level of emotional investment, the most dedicated believers will rationalize the failure and cling to their beliefs even more strongly in its wake, instead of doing the rational thing and accepting that they were mistaken. That would be too painful.
Bill is like that. You can tell that he feels genuine distress when confronted with the mountain of evidence that Trump is a liar. I think his reaction is “I can’t let this stand!”, which is why he keeps showing up despite the fact that his efforts invariably fall flat.
I’m curious about whether he knows Trump is a liar but is otherwise so devoted that he can’t admit it, or whether he truly believes that Trump is honest and that we, the evidence, and reality itself are conspiring to make Trump look bad.
Allan Miller,
Repeated unsupported claims is propaganda. Best to get on a subject where you can defend your claims. Trying to defend the claim that one politician is more trust worthy than another is pretty tough. Pivot to policy as Eric did.
colewd:
LMAO.
And propaganda is a bad thing, right? Then when will you stop repeating unsupported claims?
The claims are supported, though, so your own standard for propaganda is not met; it becomes an assertion completely at odds with the plain facts.
How many times did he win Minnesota? Why can’t you answer this question? Cat got your tongue?
Well then, why don’t you engage with some of the points that have repeatedly been raised? If you dismiss them as pseudo-facts, why not respond to keiths’ shortlist of 4 and explain to us for each one of them why you think that is a reasonable position to hold? You know, like in a real discussion?
faded_Glory,
Allan Miller,
Allan and Keiths won’t let this pseudo debate go. So I will not respond and see if this can become a discussion moving to a topic of policy vs simply bashing a single candidate. Do you think they are arguing in good faith if they simply repeat unsupported claims?
Allan Miller,
What claim are you making Allan? Are you saying he lied when he claimed he won Minnesota 3 times?
How are you going to prove this is a lie?
I, for one, decline to get sucked any further into this farce. Enjoy your Trump presidency, colewd.
I’m asking you a very straightforward question. Not sure why you are unable to answer. The answer is 2.
Propaganda is the repeating of unsupported claims, according to you. So where is the support for his repeated claim that he won MN 3 times? Are we to infer that the claim is Propaganda (by your rules)?
Allan, to colewd:
You might be thinking of Pennsylvania, which Trump won twice. He has never won Minnesota. That makes his claim a triple lie.
Here are the stats:
2016:
Clinton: 46.4%
Trump: 44.9%
Trump lost by 1.5 points
2020:
Biden: 52.4%
Trump: 45.3%
Trump lost by 7.1 points
2024:
Harris: 50.9%
Trump: 46.7%
Trump lost by 4.2 points
ETA: I should add that Trump has also lied about Pennsylvania. He told a child on Christmas Eve that he had won Pennsylvania three times. It’s pathological.
keiths,
Oops. I stand corrected. Not sure where I got 2 from; I thought I checked. Maybe I lied…
colewd:
The debate was resolved long ago. This is now about the irrational depths to which a cult member will sink in order to deny the truth about his Dear Leader.
Like the OBBBA discussion you fled from?
Bill, this is obvious to everyone, so there’s no point in pretending otherwise: all you want is for us to stop criticizing Trump. It upsets you, because he’s your cult leader. That’s it.
Step 1: look up “candidate” in the dictionary
Step 2: ask yourself whether Trump is running for office; consult Grok if necessary
Step 3: repeat out loud, 50 times: “Trump is not a candidate.”
Step 4: ask yourself “Is Trump a candidate?”
Step 5: if the answer you give is “yes”, repeat steps 1-5 until the answer becomes “no”.
The sheer amount of cuckholdry for Trump on display by the MAGA base is nothing short of sensational. It’s like those stories you hear from former cult members that have woken up as if from some bad dream and now can’t understand why they went along with it when the cult leader convinced them to let him sleep with their wives.
I will never be able to understand how some people are able to just throw themselves so completely at another person. Unprecedented sycophancy. It’s perverse. And to watch a person be like this live on an internet forum, rather than after the fact on some dramatic tv documentary. It’s like I’m in a zoo here.
The man has the stats displayed in unambigous numbers before his very face and still denies it. “Sorry guys you don’t understand, he needed access to my wife’s birth canal to save the world. Nothing sexual of weird about it at all.”
Rumraket:
Lol.
I’m not sure there are any principles that Bill wouldn’t surrender if Trump wanted him to. Consider:
— He was so, so concerned about the national debt, but Trump adding $4 trillion to it via the OBBBA? That’s perfectly fine with Bill.
— He claimed to be opposed to tax increases, but Trump taxing Americans via the tariffs? That’s A-OK.
— He stated that the most important priority should be to “improve the quality of life for everyone.” Trump’s policies have made life worse for vast numbers of people. Not one word of protest from Bill.
— He self-righteously decried the inflammatory rhetoric that he blamed for Charlie Kirk’s assassination, but when Trump fans the flames or calls for the hanging of six Democratic lawmakers, there is nary a peep out of Bill.
— he decried the supposed weaponization of the DOJ under Biden. Trump is now giving direct orders to Pam Bondi regarding which of his political enemies he wants her to prosecute. Fine with Bill.
— For a while Bill was touting Trump as the “peace president” until we pointed out that he was lying about the wars he supposedly ended. Yet Trump has bombed seven countries in one year and is threatening to invade an ally. Interesting that peace doesn’t seem so important to Bill anymore.
— He complained that our criticisms of Trump don’t align with “Judea Christian values” (lol). But Trump insulting female reporters, or fantasizing about dropping shit on the No Kings protesters, or saying “I hate my opponents and I don’t want the best for them”? That’s fine with Bill.
Speaking of “Judea Christian values”, I wonder if there are any of those that Bill wouldn’t jettison for the sake of his Dear Leader. If Christ returned to earth, would Bill say “Fuck off, Jesus. I’m with Trump now”?
A collection of recent poll numbers from a Kyle Kulinski video:
SSRS poll:
“Donald Trump cares about people like me.”
66% no
33% yes
“How would you rate the economic conditions in the country today?”
69% poor
31% good
CBS:
Only 14% of respondents support the use of military force to take Greenland. The number is even worse in other polls — I saw 8% the other day.
Breakdown on the use of military force:
Democrats 3% yes, 97% no
Independents 10% yes, 90% no
Republicans 30% yes, 70% no
Only 33% approve of the use of military force in Iran to support the protesters there. 67% disapprove.
When stopping and detaining people, ICE is being
too tough: 61%
not tough enough: 15%
about right: 24%
Trump’s presidency has made you feel
uneasy 54%
frustrated 51%
unsafe 47%
exhausted 42%
confident 25%
satisfied 21%
CNN:
Democrats are +16 vs Republicans on a generic ballot among ‘very motivated’ voters — the ones most likely to show up at the polls.
Wow. Those numbers must be scaring the crap out of Republicans who are up for re-election in November. And Trump just keeps making it worse.
Trump to reporters last night:
The guy has been yammering for months about how he deserves the Nobel Prize, and he just wrote this to the prime minister of Norway:
“I don’t care about the Nobel Prize, but I’m so angry that I’m thinking about invading Greenland since you didn’t give it to me. But I don’t care about it. At all. Really.”
He’s lying, Bill. Let’s hear your excuse: is he an honest guy who forgot how much he cares about the Nobel Prize? Or is he trying to tell the truth, but he can’t figure out what he does and doesn’t care about? An honest man with no access to his own thoughts? It’s ludicrous.
Why do you conflate Republican fears of losing elections with Trump’s actions? Do you think he cares about their seats? I’d say, only insofar as his implicit threat to their re-election neutralizes them becoming a check or balance. From Trump’s perspective, only his remaining in power matters, and he will quite likely ignore election results that go against him.
keiths:
Flint:
I don’t. Republicans’ fears are emotions that they feel; Trump’s actions are things that he does. Those are distinct. However, the actions contribute to the fears for obvious reasons. The less popular Trump is, the harder it is for Republicans to get elected. That’s one of the reasons that Democrats have been outperforming in special elections lately.
Look at the poll numbers I quoted. It isn’t a coincidence that Democrats have a +16 point advantage over Republicans at the same time that Trump’s poll numbers are in the shitter. The Republicans have good reason to be fearful, and it must be frustrating for them to watch their dipshit leader dragging them down with him.
Yes, enormously. He doesn’t care about the lawmakers personally — just ask Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert — but he definitely cares about their seats. That’s the reason for his huge midcycle gerrymandering push. Trump is fearful that the Democrats will retake the House, and even the Senate seems like it might be in play this time. You can tell that it’s on his mind. It’s why he keeps voicing fear of another impeachment, and it’s why he mused to Reuters the other day about how based on his supposed success, “when you think of it, we shouldn’t even have an election.” With a Democratic House, or better still a Democratic Congress, his power will be sharply curtailed. Hence his efforts to steal the election.
It’s the other way around. As he becomes more of a drag on their election prospects, they have more incentive to distance themselves from him and push back on some of his unpopular moves. For instance, that’s why they voted to release the Epstein files against his wishes.
He’ll do whatever he can to steal the election, both before and after, but success isn’t guaranteed, as 2020 proved. It would be far better for him if Republicans could win legitimately.