The Christian Bible condones slavery explicitly in numerous passages. One of those reference often by slave owners in the Antebellum South comes from the story of Noah.
Genesis 9:24-27
9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
The book of Joshua also demonstrates the Christian god’s support of slavery:
9:27 And Joshua made them that day hewers of wood and drawers of water for the congregation, and for the altar of the LORD, even unto this day, in the place which he should choose.
In fact, there are numerous biblical instructions on how to acquire slaves, making it clear that buying people for money is perfectly acceptable.
Exodus 21:2-7
21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
21:3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself.
21:5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
Leviticus 22:10-11
22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.
22:11 But if the priest buy any soul with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat.
Or slaves can be taken in war.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
20:10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
Leviticus goes on to make it clear that slaves are inheritable possessions.
25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigor.
There are also many biblical instructions on how to treat slaves. Genesis 16:6-9 says that angels will force slaves to return to their owners.
16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.
16:7 And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
16:8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
Beating slaves as long as they don’t die immediately is perfectly fine.
Exodus 21:20-21
21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
Leviticus shows that slaves are property, not covered by the laws protecting other people.
19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.
The New Testament doesn’t fare any better. Slavery is explicitly condoned in many places.
Luke 12:46-47
12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luke 17:7-9
17:7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
17:8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
17:9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
1 Corinthians 7:21-22
7:21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant.
Ephesians 6:5 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.
Colossians 3:22 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.
1 Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
Titus 2:9-10
2:9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.
Nowhere in the Christian Bible is slavery explicitly condemned nor are any of the verses that explicitly support the practice repudiated. Of course, numerous verses are interpreted to be anti-slavery. The fact that both slavery proponents and abolitionists were able to quote scripture in support of their views demonstrates clearly that the bible is, at best, ambiguous. Surely a book intended to provide moral guidance could have found room in the Ten Commandments for “Thou shalt not own slaves.”
The rational conclusion is that the bible is an amalgamation of writings by many different men, each with his own political goals and views on morality. It is only those who hold it to be the inerrant word of their god who find themselves in the position of attempting to defend the odious passages that clearly support slavery. That attempted defense is a blatant and appalling demonstration of religious belief overriding common decency and empathy.
Immensely! … especially the Bogomils who ended up in Croatia. It is a crying shame how political considerations have displaced objectivity when considering Bosnian history (for example). But we digress…
By weight I suspect it is best at presenting “begats”.
It has all the hallmarks of a collection of works written by various men for their own political purposes.
sigh… what I have been attempting to impart all along! I think that an literalist interpretation of the current “Hebrew Canon” can be twisted to say anything anybody wants it to say! In other words, gainsayers throwing word-for-word rebuttals into the faces of the faithful are being no less disgenuous than those same pious faithful who also want contort those same words to way whatever they want to say!
That would explain my citation of the Oral Law fer cryin’ out loud!
uhmmm… four actually, if we are restricting our considerations to Torah … not to mention the efforts of the redactor! You may want to check out
I have little patience with Christians who claim authority without any understanding of Biblical Hebrew or Classical Greek! I only wish I could discuss the notion of “פרדס”… or “levels” of understanding when considering exegesis. Mind you, I am also beginning to lose my patience with more secular-minded critics who similarly take a literalist view of Hebrew Scripture and are no less obtuse.
Talmudists were not and are not idiots (unlike some christians present). Their insights were very provocative and enlightened.
Bottom line #1 – the indentured servitude of Jews by Jews as codified in the scriptures came out of the Tamudic wringer bearing little resemblance to what was originally written (ergo my obscure reference to the Pashtan/Pashtun/Taliban version of yiddishkeit)
Bottom Line #2 – the indentured servitude of non-Jews by Jews as codified in the scriptures came out of the Tamudic wringer no differently for non-Jews than for Jews.
Bottom Line #3 – the term “slave” is really not à propos here.
Bottom Line #4 – as just one example… yes, you can cite me scripture that claims a “slave” can be beaten almost to death with no consequence… but then I must remind you that the Hebrew Testament is internally contradictory and that in fact any mistreatment of “slaves” was severely punished and garnered instant “freedom” (termination of contract really) for the “slave” (bondsman aka indentured servant actually).
so please cease and desist with the identical fractured hypocrisy you accuse FMM’s/Phoodoo’s/Erik/et al of!!!
Reset on the 7th year of service or at worst on a Jublilee Year. ITMT many other options presented themselves for release of service (I will not go into detail) BUT (and this is the important bit) so-called slaves often DID NOT EXERCISE that option.
This discussion persistently ignores the salient fact that slaves were typically included in the family circle and even intermarried with daughters and sons of the household (one option for release of service mentioned above).
To be honest – there was a wrinkle: a slave availing himself of freedom could not take his wife (and their children) if the wife had been provided to the slave by the master. But again… there were other options (as mentioned before).
How interesting…
… it would appear that Amreica represents an anomalous data point: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2006/08/14/science/sciencespecial2/15evo_lg.jpg
TomMueller,
Perhaps another thread. The NT canon and its authorship perhaps?
Hmm. I’m tempted to ask what is written by various men that isn’t intended to serve their own political purposes.
The original Ghostbusters!
{tips hat….runs away}
Woodbine,
Yeah, well, apart from the Original Ghostbusters,
What
did the Romans do for usis written by various men that isn’t intended to serve their own political purposes?What is the obsession with classical Greek? You do know that The new testament was written in Koine Greek not in classical Greek.
check it out
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jtreat/koine/classical.html
and
http://orvillejenkins.com/languages/koinegreek.html
I have little patience for folks who claim authority and don’t even know the dialect the text was written in.
😉
peace
fifthmonarchyman,
FMM
Koine Greek was Classical Greek as spoken by the “common” people. Much as literary classical Latin wasn’t the everyday speech of ordinary Romans.
Right you are Alan
Attic (the dialect of classical Greek spoken in Ancient Athens) was adopted in Macedon before the conquests of Alexander the Great and the subsequent rise of Hellenism throughout the Mediterranean seaboard.
That is how “a version” (careful now) of Attic Greek became the “standard” CLASSICAL GREEK dialect that became known as Koiné.
Let’s try this again from another angle: so-called Koiné Greek was the common Attic DIALECT of Classical Greek employed by the Hoi polloi of the Hellenistic world (not to be confused with modern Greek, a much simpler version which evolved only later later on from Koiné).
This reminds me of a question I posed my Russian/Linguistics professor regarding the differences between Russian and Ukrainian.
“What’s the difference between a “dialect” and a “language”?
His answer:
“A Language is nothing more than a dialect with its own navy!”
It matters not… ffm has yet again betrayed his ignorance.
I suggest instead you check out this excellent blog:
http://ehrmanblog.org/
best regards
TomMueller,
Thanks, Tom. Bart Ehrman has cropped up here before. Not sure about paying to read his blog though.
Tom,
We’ve been through this already. I wrote:
ETA: The expert that you cited — Reuven Hammer — agrees with me.
It matters not???
For someone who is so hung up on language I would think precision would be important
Oh well that must be just me
By the way It does matter when it comes to vocabulary and syntax. The very things that one studies the original language of the text to understand.
peace
On this I would agree.
I’m not sure what we would disagree on when it comes to the text except giving interpretational deference to the Messiah.
FYI I’m a fan of that 😉
peace
Fifth,
That quote is from Tom, not me.
I know, I meant to attribute it to him but was in a hurry.
peace
By the way instead of learning biblical Hebrew I would suggest Greek for the OT as well.
The Septuagint (The Bible that Jesus used) was in Greek so if you want to know how he understood the text that is where I would start.
Again that is just me
peace
And to whom would the ancient Israelites defer when the messiah was still 1000+yrs away from supplying the correct interpretation of scripture?
Seriously, FMM, watching you attempt to redact the actual text from portions of the bible that make you uncomfortable – it’s like a scene from Orwell’s Animal Farm.
Woodbine,
Fighting the Bible while simultaneously embracing it as God’s Immutable Word. The life of an inerrantist isn’t an easy one.
ETA:The expert that you cited — Reuven Hammer — agrees with me.
Keiths,
Let’s try a different approach:
Please juxatpose a statement of mine with a statement of Hammer’s and indicate where you discern a contradiction.
Best regards
Tom:
Sure. You wrote:
Hammer contradicts you:
Hammer is right, and the text backs him up.
The Messiah’s Holy Spirit.
quote:
Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
(1Pe 1:10-12)
end quote:
Peace
You do know that fighting an unregenerate Internet apostate’s understanding of the Bible is not the same thing as fighting the Bible?
If the folks here are nothing else they are confident in their own abilities to glean private meanings from ancient writings. Joseph Smith would be proud
😉
peace
Hi Keiths –
The authors of the reference are actually Pamela Barmash & W. David Nelson
They and I say exactly the same thing!
Please refer back to what I said in this post:
You still with me?
Everyone is in agreement so far.
Now read what I say immediately thereafter:
Here is the point I think you are not getting: there was the written law which was an impediment to progress and recognized as such by the sages. The problem was no sage (no matter how wise) could contradict, change or modify the word of God. In other words the code became ossified and problems emerged as attitudes changed (became more beneficent).
Solution? … the invention of the Oral Law to run in parallel with the Written Law. My orthodox teachers would be rolling in their graves right now! Tradition holds that the Oral Law was imparted directly from Moses at the same time and together with the Written Law. No matter…
What was the role of the Written Law? – to understand and apply the Written Law as attitudes & circumstances changed. This was particularly important given the Written Law was written at different times by different people and contained inherent contradictions (of course, according to orthodoxy, the word of God could not contradict itself).
So cutting to the chase: an ever changing Oral Law (forbidden to ever be written down) evolved to modify (scratch that) reinterpret (scratch that) “correctly interpret” OK – yeah that’s what the sages meant… the Written Law.
In any case – I eventually refer to a “Talmudic Wringer” where the Written Law comes out bearing little resemblance to what was originally written.
Now I recognize that my version of events as presented raises whole other issues that should propel some pious believers present into apologetic paroxysms, but that is another matter altogether.
Bottom Line still remains: after all is said and done, the status of the non-Jewish slave ultimately became no different than the Jewish slave, despite contradictory citations in Torah. All a slave needed to do was convert and the master was encouraged to convert the slave. ITMT there were also other escapes possible as mentioned.
Was there any exception to non-permanence of servitude? Yes – I already mentioned the troubling issue of women sold into servitude did not benefit from the 7 year or Jubilee amnesty.
Even here there is some difficulty with interpretation as it appears that what is being referred to sounds more like marriage (or concubinage) than slavery (although in those days there seemed little difference 😉 ) But as I mentioned earlier, that is another question altogether and this post is already too long, and I have not even scratched on PARDES aka the four different levels of understanding of Torah.
ps – make no mistake – any version of involuntary servitude is evil and humans being human did abuse the system. That said – Talmudic interpretation strove to prevent abuse.
best
Keiths – I will preemptively concede your rebuttal of my “moving the goal posts”
You were referring to “the Bible” and I invoked the “Oral Law”
Problem still remains: the Bible is rife with inconsistency and downright contradiction, so deference to actual interpretation and practice needed to be cited here.
best
How about the better solution of a divine interpreter (The Holy Spirit) present in every member of the community to insure that the understanding of the text was both faithful to it’s original meaning and presents enlightened moral direction?
quote:
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
(Joh 16:13-15)
end quote;
peace
It may be time for a new bulb in your projector…
Yeah, after all who’s going to do the cleaning if you beat your slaves to death!
😉
It’s a simple enough process to prove me wrong, provide a popular contemporary believing commentary that agrees with your interpretation of the text
peace
I prefer the idea that someone takes that mantle on personally and claims to be the person who can interpret the bible most accurately. Then that person can be exempt from the daily grind and they can form a caste of people whose word is taken to be the word of god and who must be obeyed. And it makes logical sense that the purveyors of the word of god take on increasing political authority until both secular and spiritual life are inseparable.
Don’t you think? As that’s what damm well happened, time after time after time.
You are immune to being proved wrong. That has been demonstrated time and time again.
And anyway the disproof, if such is required, is plain. Other cultures that existed before and after the societies described in the bible did perfectly well without slavery.
So, given that a divine interpreter (The Holy Spirit) was present in every member of the community to insure that the understanding of the text was accurate, and given they instituted a system of slavery (however you want to parse it) it is clear that the intended route was taken – how could it be otherwise when every member of the community had the ability to correctly interpret?
So, even if it was ‘slavery lite’ as you insist it remains the explicit intent of your god. How could it be otherwise, according to you?
I would definitely not prefer that because it is both not Christian and a recipe for disaster
I would agree that it happens repeatedly. It first happened in Eden and it’s been the hallmark of rebellion ever since
peace
Well, you know that was just a story right? It’s not physically possible for any aspect of that story to be anything other than a story.
Or do you insist it really happened?
If so, could you clarify something for me? Did plants exist before or after humans?
Leviticus 21
I’m not sure what you mean by just a story. If you mean the flannel board tale you were taught in Sunday school is not exactly accurate I would agree.
before and the Bible does not say otherwise.
Perhaps an out of context quote might uncharitably be taken that way by someone who insisted on coming up with their own private unregenerate interpretation of the text.
But we already agreed that would be a bad thing
peace
quote:
And I will raise up for myself a faithful priest, who shall do according to what is in my heart and in my mind. And I will build him a sure house, and he shall go in and out before my anointed forever.
(1Sa 2:35)
end quote:
peace
Get real. Did Adam and Eve exist as physical people in a physical garden of Eden or not?
Did humans evolve or were they created in the garden of Eden?
Here’s the quote will full context:
But I guess you mean this:
Which comes immediately after, which contradicts the plain reading of the first.
But whatever, we know that there are no circumstances that the bible can be wrong and you are proud to take a moral lead from what are essentially savages.
Yes. We are a freaky bunch that way.
Of note though, there is some nuance to even that figure. There is a fraction of folk (not represented in those numbers per se) who hold that evolution is true AND that God used it to create humans. But even still, we are a sad country when it comes to scientific understanding being poo-pooed by our religionists. There are few other countries in which a “life-sized ark” replica attraction would not only fly, but be seen as a monument to an actual event.
And yet god provided explit rules for preists, therefore the idea that every person was considered a priest is simply wrong
FMM, what was meant there? Was it a spiritual fire? Or an, you know, actual fire?
So there are no contradictions in the garden of eve story? Is that your claim? Despite there being several well known ones?
Thanks
Violent agreement, my favorite kind!
If I’m being hypocritical, please point out exactly how and I will attempt to rectify it. My sole purpose in quoting the passages in the bible that explicitly sanction slavery is to counter fifthmonarchyman’s ridiculous claim that the bible does no such thing. He even goes so far as to excuse the practice as “temporary and local”, as if owning another person is acceptable under some circumstances.
I agree that the bible has many internal contradictions. fifthmonarchyman does not. I’m pointing out the consequences of his position.
I appreciate your background in this field but I don’t see how the fact that some slaves could eventually be freed justifies the practice of slavery as sanctioned by the bible. Surely an omniscient, omnibenevolent god could have come up with a more moral approach than allowing people to be owned as property.
So the authors of the biblical passages explicitly sanctioning slavery weren’t inspired by your holy spirit? Strange that those verses still made it into your bible.