Sandbox (4)

Sometimes very active discussions about peripheral issues overwhelm a thread, so this is a permanent home for those conversations.

I’ve opened a new “Sandbox” thread as a post as the new “ignore commenter” plug-in only works on threads started as posts.

6,341 thoughts on “Sandbox (4)

  1. Flint: Again, my point was that we are too intimately embedded in our cultures to see anything to speak up about in the first place.

    Yes I got that, but we are talking about topics that are on the table right now, are we not? Women’s right to vote was clearly visible when the suffragettes marched through the streets and so are LGBTI+ rights now.

    Flint: I’d characterize it being more about power versus those who threaten that power.

    No, what happens in your country is going on in other places as well. In a long-established democracy a lot of power is with the voters and the way the extremist right and fascists mobilize that power is through an appeal to nationalism, traditional values, ressentiment and good ol’ racism (“closing the boarders”). By scapegoating unpopular, vulnerable minorities they lure people into allowing them to erode civil rights and neutralize counterforces: journalists, the legal system, universities and artists. This is the classic approach and it is playing out right now.

    Oh, and I am not that short, longshins.

  2. Corneel:

    (“closing the boarders”)

    Haha. Where is Bill, anyway? Did he finally realize that trying to defend the worst president in US history is futile?

  3. I was going to cite a sketch about “apart-height” that I had thought was the Two Ronnies (since Barker often derided Corbett’s short stature), but was in fact The Goodies (with Bill Oddie as the victim), and let’s just say it has not aged well.

  4. keiths,

    Haha. Where is Bill, anyway? Did he finally realize that trying to defend the worst president in US history is futile?

    What was futile was getting you and others to support your claims and not revert to special pleading and projecting.

  5. keiths:
    More later, but I think it’s amusing that Bill is projecting his projection onto us.

    Whenever Trump accuses anyone of doing anything, you can be sure that’s what he’s doing. Never fails.

  6. colewd,

    What was futile was getting you and others to support your claims and not revert to special pleading and projecting.

    Heh. As opposed to yourself, supporting claims of propaganda-not-lies by saying “it’s propaganda not lies”.

    I miss the days when people voted for a guy but could still call them out once in a while. Meantime, 5th Avenue littered with dead guys…

  7. colewd:

    What was futile was getting you and others to support your claims and not revert to special pleading and projecting.

    Add ‘special pleading’ to the list of terms Bill doesn’t understand. At this point, I think he just looks for terms that he senses are negative and applies them to us indiscriminately, despite the fact that he doesn’t know what they actually mean.

    ETA:

    Revised homework list:

    oxymoron
    badger
    border
    boarder
    burden of proof
    ad hominem
    spoiler alert
    independent voter
    objective
    candidate
    vague statistic
    pseudo
    hypocrisy
    lazy label
    special pleading

  8. Is there a vaccine for STD?
    I know there is one bullet proof 100 % but I doubt people like Bill Gates would like to invest in it…

  9. Question for DNA_Jock:
    What does this mean?
    “Khelif has confirmed that she, in fact, has a female phenotype, despite the presence of the SRY gene, which is associated with the male sex.” Could the SRY gene have been a competitive advantage?

  10. I really liked Epstein files because they show without any doubt what I have been saying all along: covid-19 pandemic was fake and the military did it.
    If this is true, why would this be done?
    I know why…

  11. J-Mac: I can’t post images… which means that the admins love them?

    Nobody can: Image upload is broken. I believe keiths is using some hack to get around this.

  12. J-Mac,

    If this is true, why would this be done?
    I know why…

    Sadly, J-mac was shot before imparting the all-important coda to this thought, and died, neurons firing feebly in tragic ellipsis…

    RIP, J-Mac.

  13. A week ago I wrote about a special election in Texas:

    In a Texas state senate special election yesterday, the Democrat beat the Republican by 14 points in a district that Trump won by 17 points in 2024 — a massive 31 point swing to the left. That senate seat has been in Republican hands for 35 years, since 1991. Even better, the Republican spent ten and a half times as much as the Democrat, $736,000 to $70,000, yet still lost.

    There was another blowout yesterday in Louisiana. The Democrat won by 24 points in a district Trump carried by 13 points in 2024, for a 37 percent swing to the left.

    I found a Brookings Institution article from December 4th that reported:

    Democratic pollster Molly Murphy gathered data on all 60 special elections for various offices during 2025. Democrats outperformed the Republicans’ 2024 vote in 50 of the 60, she said. And the average swing to Democrats across all 60 was 13%.

  14. DNA_Jock:
    Flint,
    Am I correct, then, in concluding that this comment was in reference to Imane Khelif? If not, then whom?

    Looking back, I was referring to a mis-remembered article I read, in which I had misunderstood Imane Khelif to be transgender. Now that I’ve read a bit more about it, Khelif is female but with a genetic feature I don’t understand. So I thought if anyone knew what it meant, you would.

  15. keiths:
    A week ago I wrote about a special election in Texas:

    There was another blowout yesterday in Louisiana. The Democrat won by 24 points in a district Trump carried by 13 points in 2024, for a 37 percent swing to the left.

    I found a Brookings Institution article from December 4th that reported:

    So it’s clear that if current trends hold for 9 more months, Republicans face heavier losses at the polls than can be reversed by, for example, banning mail-in ballots or demanding identification most people don’t carry. Something more drastic and direct will be required. Pundits are saying now that the real dangers aren’t pre-election (like the mail-in rules) or even during election (like armed paramilitary people at the polls). Instead, the smart money is on Trump simply seizing and ignoring ballots already cast, bringing suit against all precincts he lost, overwhelming the courts, and using the resulting delays to discard the results of all elections Republicans lose. I suspect Trump has figured out (or Stephen Miller told him) that he runs the DoJ and the military, so there really isn’t anything anyone can do to stop him.

    Next step: taking control of all news outlets so the American people won’t know what’s happening. He’s now killing NPR and PBS, and his allies are taking control of CBS, Paramount, Washington Post, etc. He’s also on the offensive against academia and major law firms, and being gifted with multi-million dollar contributions from Ellison, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Thiel, and others. Democracy may die in darkness, but it’s defeated on many fronts at once. The first time he tried to overthrow the government, there were too many adults in the room. There aren’t any of those left – he learned that lesson.

  16. I haven’t been following the debate here very closely, but I ran across the following and it seems germane to what you guys are discussing:

    ‘There’s no reason to ban us from playing’: Analysis debunks notion that transgender women have inherent physical advantages in sports

    A meta-analysis of 52 studies that included over 5,000 transgender people suggests that transgender women’s physical fitness after hormone therapy is comparable to that of cisgender women.

  17. Flint: Next step: taking control of all news outlets so the American people won’t know what’s happening.

    Americans already don’t know what is happening. See Trump’s re-election – it’s impossible for this to have happened had people known wtf they were doing. Knowledge of Jan6 would have told them to not vote for Trump. They did not have the knowledge. And now they don’t have the knowledge of Trump’s connection to Epstein, his disastrous tariff and immigration policies, his ludicrous levels of corruption and lawlessness, none of it. Americans swallow everything Trump does with hardly any complaint.

    keiths: A meta-analysis of 52 studies that included over 5,000 transgender people suggests that transgender women’s physical fitness after hormone therapy is comparable to that of cisgender women.

    This debunks the claim that transwomen are women. The more accurate statement would be: Transwomen are *close* to women in physical fitness *after* hormone therapy.

    When it comes to sports, this is an indigestible sauce – doping. Enough said.

  18. A predictable Trump meltdown:

    The Super Bowl Halftime Show is absolutely terrible, one of the worst, EVER! It makes no sense, is an affront to the Greatness of America, and doesn’t represent our standards of Success, Creativity, or Excellence. Nobody understands a word this guy is saying, and the dancing is disgusting, especially for young children that are watching from throughout the U.S.A., and all over the World. This “Show” is just a “slap in the face” to our Country, which is setting new standards and records every single day — including the Best Stock Market and 401(k)s in History! There is nothing inspirational about this mess of a Halftime Show and watch, it will get great reviews from the Fake News Media, because they haven’t got a clue of what is going on in the REAL WORLD — And, by the way, the NFL should immediately replace its ridiculous new Kickoff Rule. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! President DONALD J. TRUMP

    I’m not a fan of Bad Bunny’s music, but I love that he’s got the xenophobes all riled up. Here’s Laura Loomer:

    The song Bad Bunny performed tonight to open the halftime show was called “my aunt asked me”

    It’s a song about how his aunt asked him why he has so many girlfriends. He says he wants to bring all of his girlfriends to the VIP section of the club.

    You’ll notice the set he performed on was decorated with EBT signs and women who looked like hookers.

    Because that’s what we need more of in America right? More people who don’t speak English having promiscuous relationships with multiple women and having kids they can’t afford to raise?

    How about we encourage people to be in committed relationships and have one partner?

    We wouldn’t need signs that said EBT accepted here and we wouldn’t need to integrate ESL programs in our schools if we stopped encouraging foreigners to have multiple baby Mommas and baby daddies which means more kids in broken homes that only become a massive burden to US taxpayers and the US education system since they don’t speak English.

    Some people call it “entertainment”.

    I call it the great replacement.

    ETA: It’s also hilarious how many of these MAGA dipshits don’t realize that Puerto Rico is part of the US.

  19. Erik: When it comes to sports, this is an indigestible sauce – doping.

    In my understanding, the point of doping is usually to improve athletic performance in order to gain an unfair advantage. This sounds more like the opposite.

  20. Well, I barely speak a word of Spanish and rap ain’t my thing, but I enjoyed Bad Bunny’s halftime show. Playing with stereotypes, celebrating Latin culture. If it annoyed Trump, that’s a plus.

  21. keiths,
    Loomer:

    How about we encourage people to be in committed relationships and have one partner?

    The show featured a mock proposal and an actual wedding. If she’s looking to uphold values of fidelity, she should look elsewhere than Trump.

  22. Allan:

    The show featured a mock proposal and an actual wedding. If she’s looking to uphold values of fidelity, she should look elsewhere than Trump.

    Meanwhile, the Turning Point USA “alternative” halftime show featured Kid Rock, who once sang:

    Young ladies, young ladies
    I like ’em underage, see
    Some say that’s statutory
    But I say it’s mandatory

    MAGA is a self-parody.

  23. Corneel: In my understanding, the point of doping is usually to improve athletic performance in order to gain an unfair advantage.

    Your understanding becomes correct when you understand that it is all about unfair advantage, not necessarily improved performance. Men going after women’s titles is an unfair advantage. Someone in a heavy category in schwerathletik using substances to lose weight to get into a lighter category is after an unfair advantage.

    My uncle was a weight lifter and diabetic. He had to use insulin in order not to collapse while doing sport, but insulin was considered doping, so he could not compete. Rules are rules.

  24. Erik: Americans already don’t know what is happening. See Trump’s re-election – it’s impossible for this to have happened had people known wtf they were doing. Knowledge of Jan6 would have told them to not vote for Trump. They did not have the knowledge.

    Of course they did. You seem to forget that in the USA, elections have more than one candidate. In voting for one, you are voting against the other. Check out the many polls where people who voted for Trump will say that Trump is a terrible President, dishonest, corrupt, ignorant, stupid, and still better than Harris, and would vote for Trump today if Harris were his opponent.

  25. Flint,
    So, Imane Khelif is (as you put it) female. I would say she was intersex, but female-presenting.
    You ask “Could the SRY gene have been a competitive advantage?”
    Well, there’s a lot of variation in gene expression in humans.
    That SRY gene could lead to a competitive advantage. Depends on whether it is functional or not. Depends on whether various downstream genes are active or not (AMH, androgen receptors, androgen synthesis). High levels of testosterone can certainly lead to an advantage in certain competitions, in most individuals (for example, Jackie had high levels of testosterone – did her no good whatsoever). High levels of hGH could lead to an advantage in volleyball or basketball. High levels of EPO can lead to an advantage in middle distance running, rowing, cycling… There’s lots of other polymorphisms that affect performance. As others have noted, sports are inherently unfair, in terms of individuals’ innate abilities.
    Individual sports need to decide on a ruleset that treats intersex and trans athletes as human beings, whilst also honoring fair competition. Performance-enhancing drugs are a far more prevalent issue than intersex or trans athletes, but not a right wing talking point.
    Specifically, you wrote:

    I should start here by emphasizing that intersex people, who biologically do not fall into either category unambiguously, are not on this cultural battlefield at all. As Jock points out, they are irrelevant and can be ignored (by the far Right) because they’re so rare.

    Not something I ‘pointed out’, obviously.
    Put yourself in the place of Khelif’s parents when their daughter is receiving death threats because of stuff like this:

    But when a trans woman (read: man) competed against women in boxing, this got a lot of attention. Because this competitor had a man’s musculature, a man’s strength, and could because the real women couldn’t hit hard enough. For competitive purposes this was a genuine biological man. So this was a flash point.

    Sorry if I got a little short with you.

  26. DNA_Jock:
    Not something I ‘pointed out’, obviously.

    You described Coyne’s position as, these people are so rare we don’t need to be concerned with them, and they can fuck off. I tried to present that position as typical of the far right in this culture war.

  27. Flint,

    Aha! I mis-parsed your sentence as having “by the far right” not modifying “they are irrelevant”. My apologies.

  28. Just saw an interesting poll result on CNN. Among voters without a college degree, Trump is down 23 points from where he was in November of 2024: +14 then, -9 now.

  29. keiths:
    Just saw an interesting poll result on CNN. Among voters without a college degree, Trump is down 23 points from where he was in November of 2024: +14 then, -9 now.

    But I repeat, the more likely he believes he is to lose, the more dangerous he becomes. He has come out and said “if we don’t win the House in November, they’ll impeach me!” So he can’t lose the house. Voting is likely to win the House, and he can’t lose the house. Which means he can’t lose the elections. But he controls DoJ, and the military, and DHS (which has the largest police force in the history of the world). So losing elections is only hypothetical.

  30. Loomer criticises Bad Bunny for dancing on electrical poles when he could have highlighted Puerto Rico’s electrical grid problems….

    It”s kind of ironic how Bad Bunny was dancing on an electrical post at the Super Bowl halftime show.

    Puerto Rico isn’t exactly known for having reliable electricity.

    He could have highlighted the electrical grid crisis in PR and done some good with his platform, but he chose degeneracy!

    The song is “El Apagón” – The Blackout. The poles spark, stadium lights flicker, for absolutely no reason. Shame on him for not highlighting the grid crisis instead…

    These people are not the brightest.

  31. The irony of the President raging from Sea-to-Lake about Latin representation at the Superbowl in the famously Anglo-Saxon city of Saint Francis is worth a chortle or two.

    Also the Loomerian family values portrayed by Kid Rock, with lyrics about underage girls: “See, some say that’s statutory/ But I say it’s mandatory”. It’s almost clever. I say almost.

  32. Allan:

    The irony of the President raging from Sea-to-Lake about Latin representation at the Superbowl in the famously Anglo-Saxon city of Saint Francis is worth a chortle or two.

    Along those lines, I thought this bit was revealing:

    Nobody understands a word this guy is saying…

    Yeah, I’m sure none of the almost 30% of Californians who speak Spanish could make out a single word.

    Of course to Trump “nobody” means “none of us”, and Us excludes Them Hispanics.

  33. keiths: Nobody understands a word this guy is saying…

    Even W understood and could speak a few words of Mexican. Is Trump worse than W? <– this is a question to Trump

  34. keiths,

    When I did the PCT, I was surprised how deep into California the Latin influence went. Of course, given its history, shouldn’t be too surprising.

  35. Allan Miller: I was surprised how deep into California the Latin influence went.

    The influence went everywhere. Everything from Texas to Oregon was Mexico before the US-Mexico war, which started by the takeover of Texas by means of the good old invasion of illegal immigrants.

  36. The UK better up its game. One of the most Trump-favourable nations in Europe – and we hate him! He has his fans here of course, but there is very little fear of contradiction in expressing an unfavourable opinion in public. We’re all brainwashed, o’course.

  37. Allan:

    When I did the PCT, I was surprised how deep into California the Latin influence went.

    We’re immersed in it. I live in San Jose, and my subdivision is along San Felipe Road. I drive on El Camino Real all the time. Cities in my part of Northern California: Los Gatos, Santa Clara, Palo Alto, San Carlos, San Mateo, San Bruno, San Juan Bautista, Salinas, Santa Cruz, Modesto, Merced, Los Baños, Monterey, Santa Rosa, Sonoma, San Martin, Sacramento, Alameda, Manteca, San Rafael, Vallejo, Milpitas, Pacifica, Alviso, Martinez, Benicia, Sausalito.

    Those are off the top of my head. I’m sure I’m missing a bunch. Southern California is the same.

  38. keiths,

    I felt it faded round about Tahoe*. But that’s still 1,000 miles of walking: 10 weeks or so. Shorter straight line distance of course.

    *Although I did go to Chico for new shoes!

  39. Allan,

    That sounds about right. Chico and Mendocino are both north of Tahoe, but I can’t think of anything else.

  40. 2 good jokes re the Bad Bunny furore:

    “Kid Rock – is that what they’re calling Epstein Island now?”.

    “If they released the Epstein files in Spanish, maybe MAGA would finally give a shit about them”.

    🙂

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