Noyau (2)

…the noyau, an animal society held together by mutual animosity rather than co-operation

Robert Ardrey, The Territorial Imperative.

[to work around page bug]

2,789 Replies to “Noyau (2)”

  1. dazz dazz says:

    walto:
    dazz,

    Yes. It’s not too original. I think Hobbes might have taken essentially the same position in his Leviathan. Not sure.

    I was going to make a self deprecating joke here involving Calvin & Hobbes here but yeah, you get the point 😀

  2. J-Mac says:

    Mung:
    For J-Mac:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/1483486869

    Thanks Mung. I well familiar with the author’s paper:

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.01467

    Here is something for you and those loving QM to check out:

    Quantum Correlations Reverse Thermodynamic Arrow of Time

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/quantum-correlations-reverse-thermodynamic-arrow-of-time-20180402/

  3. walto walto says:

    FWIW, I found the stuff by Chris Adami on entropy very helpful.

  4. Mung Mung says:

    J-Mac: Quantum Correlations Reverse Thermodynamic Arrow of Time

    Sorry, but there is no “Thermodynamic Arrow of Time” for quantum correlations to reverse.

  5. newton says:

    walto:
    Does keiths currently have the right to post at tsz?

    If Patrick does the typing, yes.

    If mung was a moderator would he have the right to guano the Patrick’s post?

  6. J-Mac says:

    Mung: Sorry, but there is no “Thermodynamic Arrow of Time” for quantum correlations to reverse.

    Really? If there is no thermodynamics arrow of time, as you claimed, and even linked me to the book that claims that, and I even referenced the paper by the same author that makes the same claim, how could an experiment involving quantum entangled parties reverse something that doesn’t exist?

    Did you even read the details of the experiment? If you did, do you understand its results?
    For the sake of others I paste the abstract of the same experiment with simpler explanation of the experiment:

    Abstract
    The second law permits the prediction of the direction of natural processes, thus defining a thermodynamic arrow of time. However, standard thermodynamics presupposes the absence of initial correlations between interacting systems. We here experimentally demonstrate the reversal of the arrow of time for two initially quantum correlated spins-1/2, prepared in local thermal states at different temperatures, employing a Nuclear Magnetic Resonance setup. We observe a spontaneous heat flow from the cold to the hot system. This process is enabled by a trade off between correlations and entropy that we quantify with information-theoretical quantities.

    2.

    “One of the more curious challenges in physics is to understand the nature of time. At the microscopic level, the laws of physics are symmetric with respect to time—they work just as well whether time runs forwards or backwards. But at the macroscopic level, processes all have a preferred direction. The great physicist Arthur Eddington called this the “arrow of time.”

    Just why this arrow points in one direction but not the other is one of the great scientific puzzles. The standard answer is that the arrow of time follows from the Second Law of Thermodynamics—that disorder, or entropy, always increases in a closed system.

    That’s why milk mixes easily in tea but never emerges from a brew, why scrambled eggs never spontaneously unscramble, and why your morning mug of coffee heats your hands as you hold it and not the other way around.

    But there is another factor at work—the universe’s initial conditions. For reasons unknown, the early universe was hot and its energy distributed evenly. This is a low-entropy state for a system that is dominated by gravity.

    Over time, the entropy has continually increased, and this is what has largely determined the arrow of time.

    But that raises an interesting possibility. If the initial conditions determine the arrow of time, perhaps it is possible to create systems on Earth with initial conditions that force the arrow of time to run in the opposite direction. In these systems, eggs could spontaneously unscramble and heat could flow from cold objects to hot ones.

    Today, Kaonan Micadei at the Federal University of ABC in Brazil and a few pals have built such a system for the first time. In their experiment, the arrow of time runs in reverse, allowing them to observe a cold object heating up a hotter one. The work raises the possibility of a new generation of devices in which the arrow of time runs backwards.

  7. Neil Rickert says:

    newton: If mung was a moderator would he have the right to guano the Patrick’s post?

    He would presumably have the ability to do that. Whether there’s a right involved is debatable. In any case, that would be an unwise move and would probably result in many people posting objections.

  8. J-Mac says:

    newton: If mung was a moderator would he have the right to guano the Patrick’s post?

    I think the more profound question remains: does mung get guano immunity? Or, who would guano his comments?

  9. J-Mac says:

    Alan Fox: sc

    What, are you a chef???
    I’m going to try your recipe next time. Thanks! No garlic?
    High or medium heat?

  10. Alan Fox Alan Fox says:

    J-Mac: What, are you a chef???

    No; I married one.

    I’m going to try your recipe next time. Thanks! No garlic?

    Definitely no garlic. The flavour would overwhelm the scallops and it will burn and taste bitter in the searing process.

    High or medium heat?

    High, but don’t get distracted.

  11. J-Mac says:

    Alan Fox: No; I married one.

    Definitely no garlic. The flavour would overwhelm the scallops and it will burn and taste bitter in the searing process.

    High, but don’t get distracted.

    Perfecto! Thank you ! I might try it this weekend ….

  12. Mung Mung says:

    newton: If mung was a moderator would he have the right to guano the Patrick’s post?

    Yes. I’ve avoided addressing the blatant double-standard of the mods allowing Patrick to speak for keiths. Normally posts that have been sent to Guano are not permitted to be quoted.

    I thought perhaps the normal rules had been suspended for Lizzie’s thread and that Moderation Issues rules were in place. But now I see that is not the case.

    Yet another instance of moderator bias. Who woulda thunk it.

  13. Neil Rickert says:

    Mung: I’ve avoided addressing the blatant double-standard of the mods allowing Patrick to speak for keiths.

    If Patrick wants to publicly defame himself, I don’t see why I should interfere.

  14. walto walto says:

    Neil Rickert: If Patrick wants to publicly defame himself

    Certainly wouldn’t be the first time.

    Amazing to me that guy was allowed to be a moderator here.

  15. newton says:

    Mung: Yes. I’ve avoided addressing the blatant double-standard of the mods allowing Patrick to speak for keiths. Normally posts that have been sent to Guano are not permitted to be quoted.

    I thought perhaps the normal rules had been suspended for Lizzie’s thread and that Moderation Issues rules were in place. But now I see that is not the case.

    Yet another instance of moderator bias. Who woulda thunk it.

    Don’t think bias, that implies favoritism. Not seeing any big fans among the moderators of either keiths or Patrick. I think it is an effort to defuse the situation by letting it play out. Using their best judgement.

  16. Mung Mung says:

    newton: I think it is an effort to defuse the situation by letting it play out. Using their best judgement.

    So phoodoo’s comment was not ok and the other comments in the thread are ok, all in the interest of letting things play out?

    Perhaps they were just protecting THE CONVERSATION.

  17. Alan Fox Alan Fox says:

    Mung: Yes. I’ve avoided addressing the blatant double-standard of the mods allowing Patrick to speak for keiths. Normally posts that have been sent to Guano are not permitted to be quoted.

    I’ve made my position clear regarding relaying comments from blocked users. I’ve raised it with other admins. Having taken one executive action without consulting the other admins, I’ll see what others think.

    I thought perhaps the normal rules had been suspended for Lizzie’s thread and that Moderation Issues rules were in place. But now I see that is not the case.

    Wasn’t made explicit, was it? Perhaps it ought to be. Should Squawk Box be subject to usual rules or Moderation Thread rules?

    Yet another instance of moderator bias. Who woulda thunk it.

    Don’t see the connection. But clarifying whether which rules apply has the consequence that guano’d comments should either be restored or not.

  18. Mung Mung says:

    Alan Fox: Having taken one executive action without consulting the other admins, I’ll see what others think.

    I don’t want anything done about keiths->Patrick->TSZ based on my comment in this thread. I’m not asking the mods to do anything about that.

    Wasn’t made explicit, was it? Perhaps it ought to be. Should Squawk Box be subject to usual rules or Moderation Thread rules?

    I’m not one of those people who needs everything in writing. 🙂

    But if Neil is going to Guano phoodoo’s comment, the least he could do is be consistent. Frankly I’m tending towards letting mods do what they do without opening it all up to discussion. Talk privately among yourselves and then just follow through on whatever you agree to. No need to announce anything.

    People will evolve or die. Who knows what might happen if some new niches are opened up.

    Don’t see the connection.

    Between Neil targeting phoodoo’s post and moderator bias?

  19. Erik says:

    walto: Amazing to me that guy was allowed to be a moderator here.

    I understood he was a moderator due to the glorious Mathgrrl project, which Lizzie adored. Or are these things not related?

  20. walto walto says:

    Erik,

    No idea. Plausible, though.

  21. Mung Mung says:

    Too bad Salvador waited so long to have his falling out with UD. Elizabeth could have chosen him to be a moderator.

  22. newton says:

    Erik: I understood he was a moderator due to the glorious Mathgrrl project, which Lizzie adored. Or are these things not related?

    Mathgrrl was a tour de force, also not sure if that was her reasoning.

  23. Mung Mung says:

    newton: Mathgrrl was a tour de force

    A route de force of conformation bias.

  24. newton says:

    Mung:
    Too bad Salvador waited so long to have his falling out with UD. Elizabeth could have chosen him to be a moderator.

    You still at UD and if the website survives I think the odds are with you to achieve the dream.

  25. Mung Mung says:

    I think I’m just going to have to start my own blog.

    ETA:

    Uncommon Skepticism?
    Skeptical Descent?

  26. walto walto says:

    Mung: Skeptical Descent?

    Gregory would like that name, I’m pretty sure.

  27. newton says:

    Mung: A route de force of conformation bias.

    Not sure what a route de force or conformation bias are. I take it you were unimpressed.

  28. Mung Mung says:

    newton: Not sure what a route de force or conformation bias are.

    Conformation bias is the third leg of the tool. The other two being confirmation bias and optimism bias.

  29. newton says:

    Mung: Conformation bias is the third leg of the tool. The other two being confirmation bias and optimism bias.

    Then how about “ Mung’s Three Legged Tool”, that should get some interest.

  30. stcordova says:

    The Keithrick counter is up to 83 as of 8/15/18 15:07 EST.

    C’mon Keiths, you need 17 more to push through to 100.

    You also need to say something so both you and Patrick can get a comment guanoed. You haven’t been guanoed in a while. Wouldn’t that be funny if your e-mail to Patrick got guanoed?

  31. J-Mac says:

    stcordova:
    The Keithrick counter is up to 83 as of 8/15/18 15:07 EST.

    C’mon Keiths, you need 17 more to push through to 100.

    You also need to say something so both you and Patrick can get a comment guanoed. You haven’t been guanoed in a while.Wouldn’t that be funny if your e-mail to Patrick got guanoed?

    When keiths was banned, Patrick became very active in defending kieiths’ interests, never even mentioning his own interests other than the right to free speech…for keiths…
    keiths and partick “love story, especially like this, has gotta be true… don’ya think?

  32. stcordova says:

    In the spirit of Keithrick, I got this email:

    Last Chance to Get your FREE Bottle Now

  33. stcordova says:

    Some people at UD were angry at me for leaving the Catholic church (I’m now a protestant). Well:

    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/15/17689994/catholic-sex-abuse-priest-crisis-pennsylvania-report

    The Pennsylvania Supreme Court made public one of the broadest-ever investigations into Catholic clerical sex abuse of minors in the United States on Tuesday. The document, a 1,400-page grand jury report, is the result of an 18-month probe by Pennsylvania state Attorney General Josh Shapiro, and names at least 300 priests accused of child sex abuse by more than 1,000 victims throughout the state.

  34. walto walto says:

    stcordova:
    In the spirit of Keithrick, I got this email:

    I can’t help feeling soooo sorry for the guy every time I stop by TSZ! I mean can you imagine how hard it must be not to be able to post here at least a couple times a day?!?

    That must really suck to have that taken away from you. People can be so mean sometimes! Especially moderators.

    They’re the absolute worst meanies!! X>{

  35. J-Mac says:

    walto: I can’t help feeling soooo sorry for the guy every time I stop by TSZ!I mean can you imagine how hard it must be not to be able to post here at least a couple times a day?!?

    That must really suck to have that taken away from you. People can be so mean sometimes! Especially moderators.

    They’re the absolute worst meanies!!X>{

    I almost never agree with you but this time I doooooooooo!
    Or the second time…possibly… 😉
    TSZ has become a Russian circus on wheels…
    I think Sal should continue with his new blog and we all should move there… He would be a perfect moderator…
    Sal,
    Talk to me!
    My kids and I have a ton of original and not so original ideas for OPs.
    If keiths is reinstated, I don’t think my kids are going to read this blog… So, this means I will probably follow them…

  36. walto walto says:

    I think if I were a mod, I’d immediately tack on another 30 days of suspension and add that 5 days will be added for each day that does not contain at least 10 substantive keitrick posts of all new content–each consisting of at least 100 words.

    These could not be cut-and-paste stuff that has been said before, and would have to make some semblance of sense according to all of Alan, Jock, Neil and (Vince). Sanctimonious remarks about ‘blazed paths’ and ‘security in our persons and chattels’ would be allowed, but only until the point at which either two of the aforementioned mods puke or one can’t stop laughing for at last ten minutes.

    Anyhow, that’s my suggestion for the day.

  37. J-Mac says:

    walto:
    I think if I were a mod, I’d immediately tack on another 30 daysof suspension and add that 5 days will be added for each day that does not contain at least 10 substantive keitrick posts of all new content–each consisting of at least 100 words.

    These could not be cut-and-paste stuff that has been said before, and would have to make some semblance of sense according to all of Alan, Jock, Neil and (Vince). Sanctimonious remarks about ‘blazed paths’ and ‘security in our persons and chattels’ would be allowed, but only until the point at which either two of the aforementioned mods puke or one can’t stop laughing for at last ten minutes.

    Anyhow, that’s my suggestion for the day.

    Wait a minute? Are you suggesting that keiths has found a way to prove his devious points through another poppet, Patrick?
    If this is the case, I would suggest the owner of this blog pulls the plug and we never “see” each other again…

  38. stcordova says:

    I bashed the Catholic Church, but in fairness, here’s one on the Protestant Church. YIKES!

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-willow-creek-paid-3-million-to-settle-lawsuits-over-sexual-abuse-20180810-story.html

    Willow Creek Community Church agreed to pay more than $3 million to settle lawsuits over the sexual abuse of two developmentally disabled boys by a church volunteer, court records show.

    The second and largest of the settlements, for $1.75 million, was made in February, before the Tribune revealed unrelated claims that the evangelical megachurch’s founder, the Rev. Bill Hybels, engaged in inappropriate conduct with women, eventually leading to his early retirement and, this month, the resignation of the church’s two leading pastors and its entire board of elders.

    YIKES!

    It’s only by the grace of God I’m a Christian today, certainly not because of some of the leaders of today’s churches!

  39. stcordova says:

    stcordova:
    The Keithrick counter is up to 83 as of 8/15/18 15:07 EST.

    C’mon Keiths, you need 17 more to push through to 100.

    You also need to say something so both you and Patrick can get a comment guanoed. You haven’t been guanoed in a while.Wouldn’t that be funny if your e-mail to Patrick got guanoed?

    As of 8/18/2018 the Kiethrick count was up to 118! Congratulations to Keithrick for setting a new record.

    I suppose we could all send our comments to Patrick and let him post them. That would be the new TSZ!

  40. stcordova says:

    I vote we not punish Patrick for perpetuating Keiths participation by guanoing his posts. Let Keiths remain on suspension and let Patrick be Keiths sockpuppet. That’s punishment enough.

  41. stcordova says:

    Hey Look What I Found, a place just for Keithrick!

    https://keithrick.wordpress.com/

  42. stcordova says:

    Hey Keithrick, you can have the Keithrick.Com domain for 11.99 dollars a year:

    https://www.godaddy.com/dpp/find?checkAvail=1&tmskey=&domainToCheck=keithrick

    So why don’t you go for it? You can be free of the supposed enslavements and authoritarian behavior you claim is going on at TSZ. So why do you persist in your self-imposed enslavement and subjugation to people whose conduct you despise when you can buy your freedom for $11.99 a year. In fact there are places you can set up for FREEEEEEEE.

    I’ll tell you why. You like the fact that people congregate here and you like debating them. But you don’t like the fact they would rather be here than set up shop at new place with you guys running the show.

    You’re just taking it out on Alan and Neil and making them scapegoats when really most of the community is content and they aren’t eager to move and appoint you as their new masters, nor are they especially eager for Keiths to rejoin the TSZ community.

    Me? You can hang around TSZ Keiths. I hope you waste hours of your life typing comments that I’ll never read as I have you on my ignore list if you return.

  43. stcordova says:

    I suggest we keep Keiths suspended for a little longer. At least that will keep Patrick tied down as Keiths marionette for a while. I want to see how long Patrick will keep being Keiths messenger boy.

  44. stcordova says:

    The Keithrick meter is up to at least 157 on squawk box, and 2 on squawk box poll.

  45. walto walto says:

    stcordova:
    The Keithrick meter is up to at least 157 on squawk box, and 2 on squawk box poll.

    Poor, poor keiths. 🙁

    Know what *I* think the solution is? Alan creates six more moderation OPs. One of those is bound to help!

  46. stcordova says:

    The Keithrick meter got up to 232 posts whereby Patrick cut-and-paste Keiths e-mails. I wonder if Patrick set up a bot to help him do this. Either way, it’s kind of funny.

    Anyway, Keithrick mysterious stopped posting on squawk box after 8/26/18 2:28 am (GMT?).

    Anyway I won a genetleman’s bet that Keithrick would surpasss 200 comments on squawbox. So I will reward myself with a Talon Vanilla cigar.

  47. stcordova says:

    Mung is our new overlord?

    What the #*!*%)!Y($#^)GSS(*F!)^)))S)G)D)U)#####%&^&^**!*^*!*^ is Lizzie thinking???

    Unban Keiths immediately and let Mung deal with him.

  48. Alan Fox Alan Fox says:

    stcordova,
    Keiths was never banned. His suspension is lifted.

  49. stcordova says:

    Alan Fox:
    stcordova,
    Keiths was never banned. His suspension is lifted.

    Whoa, he can post here at TSZ? Was Mung’s first act as overlord was to lift Keiths suspension?

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