704 thoughts on “Holding tank for general chatter about GAs”

  1. GAs direct those mutations via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

    GAs = goal oriented and goal oriented = ID.

    IOW if a GA solves the problem it was designed to solve, then it solved it by design, not willy-nilly.

    Unfortunately evotards seem to be ignorant of that

  2. C7P until oleg actually addresses it:

    Thank you olegt- thank you for proving beyond any doubt that you are totally ignorant of GAs.

    First he tells me that GAs have to be outside of the organisms because that is how it is in a VIRTUAL world. However when reminded that it is a VIRTUAL world and they can do that in a VIRTUAL world, but nit in the real world, where the GA to control the inside of an organism would have to be inside of the organism.

    It took a whole for that to sink in, if it ever did.

    So what does dumbass olegt do next? Say the obvious- that the mutations in a GA are randomly produced- so what oleg- they are produced in response to the GA to help the GA solve the problem it was designed to solve.

    IOW olegt, there is more to any given GA besides the ability to generate random mutations.

    GAs directe those mutations via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

    GAs = goal oriented and goal oriented = ID.

    IOW if a GA solves the problem it was designed to solve, then it solved it by design, not willy-nilly.

    Unfortunately evotards seem to be ignorant of that…

  4. Joe G: GAs direct those mutations organisms via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

    Fixed it for ya, Joe.

  6. And again:

    Thank you olegt- thank you for proving beyond any doubt that you are totally ignorant of GAs.

    First he tells me that GAs have to be outside of the organisms because that is how it is in a VIRTUAL world. However when reminded that it is a VIRTUAL world and they can do that in a VIRTUAL world, but nit in the real world, where the GA to control the inside of an organism would have to be inside of the organism.

    It took a whole for that to sink in, if it ever did.

    So what does dumbass olegt do next? Say the obvious- that the mutations in a GA are randomly produced- so what oleg- they are produced in response to the GA to help the GA solve the problem it was designed to solve.

    IOW olegt, there is more to any given GA besides the ability to generate random mutations.

    GAs directe those mutations via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

    GAs = goal oriented and goal oriented = ID.

    IOW if a GA solves the problem it was designed to solve, then it solved it by design, not willy-nilly.

    Unfortunately evotards seem to be ignorant of that…

  8. Joe G: GAs directe [sic] those mutations populations of organisms via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

  10. olegt:

    Nope, in MY scenario, which is what we are discussing, the GA directs mutations to occur. And then the SC guides tem towards the goal.

  11. Here it is:

    Thank you olegt- thank you for proving beyond any doubt that you are totally ignorant of GAs.

    First he tells me that GAs have to be outside of the organisms because that is how it is in a VIRTUAL world. However when reminded that it is a VIRTUAL world and they can do that in a VIRTUAL world, but nit in the real world, where the GA to control the inside of an organism would have to be inside of the organism.

    It took a whole for that to sink in, if it ever did.

    So what does dumbass olegt do next? Say the obvious- that the mutations in a GA are randomly produced- so what oleg- they are produced in response to the GA to help the GA solve the problem it was designed to solve.

    IOW olegt, there is more to any given GA besides the ability to generate random mutations.

    GAs directe those mutations via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

    GAs = goal oriented and goal oriented = ID.

    IOW if a GA solves the problem it was designed to solve, then it solved it by design, not willy-nilly.

    Unfortunately evotards seem to be ignorant of that…

  12. Joe G: Nope, in MY scenario, which is what we are discussing, the GA directs mutations to occur. And then the SC guides tem towards the goal.

    So you were not discussing standard genetic algorithms, Joe? Back to your own private version? 🙂

  14. olegt: So you were not discussing standard genetic algorithms, Joe? Back to your own private version?

    No such thing as a standard GA- GAs come in all varieties depending on the problem.

    But anyways you are clueless and I will debate you in front of your peers wrt GAs

  16. RichTARD- some day you may find some evidence to support your false accusations. Unfortunately that day is not today.

  18. Joe G: No such thing as a standard GA- GAs come in all varieties depending on the problem.

    Indeed, GAs can be applied to a variety of problems. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t share some basic principles. Those principles include the use of random mutations and selection by fitness. (Read the manual.) If you wish to discard one of the basic principles, such as the undirected nature of mutations, that’s fine, but then you are not using a standard GA. It’s something else now.

  19. Rich:
    Joe, none of the GA experts and practitioners here agree with you.

    Who?

    Name ONE GA expert here- besides me (yes I have used and written them)

    And ten please present their argument against me.

  20. oleg the little prick:

    Thank you olegt- thank you for proving beyond any doubt that you are totally ignorant of GAs.

    First he tells me that GAs have to be outside of the organisms because that is how it is in a VIRTUAL world. However when reminded that it is a VIRTUAL world and they can do that in a VIRTUAL world, but nit in the real world, where the GA to control the inside of an organism would have to be inside of the organism.

    It took a whole for that to sink in, if it ever did.

    So what does dumbass olegt do next? Say the obvious- that the mutations in a GA are randomly produced- so what oleg- they are produced in response to the GA to help the GA solve the problem it was designed to solve.

    IOW olegt, there is more to any given GA besides the ability to generate random mutations.

    GAs direct those mutations via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

    GAs = goal oriented and goal oriented = ID.

    IOW if a GA solves the problem it was designed to solve, then it solved it by design, not willy-nilly.

    Unfortunately evotards seem to be ignorant of that…

  22. Joe G: I am not discarding anything- I said the mutations are random- however the sc directes [sic] them the population towards the goal improved fitness– dumbass

    Keep up the good work, Joe. You’re almost there. 🙂

  23. Joe G: Joe- In what way am I wrong

    See this comment. In it, errors are crossed out and replaced with correct answers highlighted in boldface type. Hope this helps.

  24. Joe G: What abouty a VIRTUAL ENVIRONMENT don’t you undersatnd?

    Where the fuck would a designer put the GA in the real world in order to causes changes to the inside of an organism?

    There is no GA designer in the real world Joe.

    There are no goals for evolution in the real world.

    In the real world organisms get slight random variations every time they reproduce.

    In the real world the variable external environment supplies selection pressure on the variants and favors those mutations with the better survival potential in that current environment. As a result there is no “goal”, there are only populations tracking environmental changes.

    Human created GAs are processes that emulate the real world, with one big exception: Human created GAs consciously manipulate the external selection pressure to drive the populations towards a desired goal. That’s the same way human animal breeders use artificial selection to bring out desired traits. They consciously manipulate the external selection pressures on the animals.

    Your internal GAs CAN’T DO IT Joe. They can’t manipulate external selection pressures.

    You’re busted Joe. Scream and kick as much as you want but you FAILED.

  25. Joe G: Name ONE GA expert here- besides me (yes I have used and written them)

    That’s great, Joe. Would you mind describing one or two? That would be a great opportunity for the rest of us to learn from the expert. 🙂

  26. Rich:
    Best.thread.ever!

    Not really. When Lizzie gets home, she’s not going to be happy about this mess.

    Cue Desi: “You got a lot of ‘splainin to do!”

  27. Joe G:

    However what I claim is exactly what the GA experts claim.

    Please provide a reference from a GA expert saying that a GA can run completely internal to the organism doing the evolving.

    We’ll wait.

  28. Thorton: Yeah, I feel a bit guilty about that. This whole thread will go right to the shit hole, and deservedly so. There it will remain a monument to Joe Gallien’s incredible stupidity.

    Our host was on to something when she named the thread “a holding tank.” 🙂

  29. olegt: Our host was on to something when she named the thread “a holding tank.”

    Is that the English colloquialism for septic tank?

    Maybe Lizzie will rename Guano to

    “TheSepticalZone”

    🙂

  30. I really, really, REALLY want to see a genetic algorithm written and used by JoeG.

    I’ll be honest – I think it just possible he may have used one; I don’t believe at all that he’s ever written a functioning GA

  31. damitall: I’ll be honest – I think it just possible he may have used one; I don’t believe at all that he’s ever written a functioning GA

    Well, he was careful enough to say “I have used and written them,” not “I have written and used them.” The order matters. 🙂

  32. damitall:
    I really, really, REALLY want to see a genetic algorithm written and used byJoeG.

    I’ll be honest – I think it just possible he may have used one; I don’t believe at all that he’s ever written a functioning GA

    Joe’s claim to being an expert in GAs comes from him working a brief stint as a technician at a company that used GAs. At least that’s the story he has told before. Joe himself never wrote or used GAs though. He just drank from the same water fountain as people who did. Apparently he became an expert by osmosis.

  33. Joe G: IOW if a GA solves the problem it was designed to solve

    What problems are your cellular GAs attempting to solve Joe?

  34. Thank you olegt- thank you for proving beyond any doubt that you are totally ignorant of GAs.

    First he tells me that GAs have to be outside of the organisms because that is how it is in a VIRTUAL world. However when reminded that it is a VIRTUAL world and they can do that in a VIRTUAL world, but nit in the real world, where the GA to control the inside of an organism would have to be inside of the organism.

    It took a whole for that to sink in, if it ever did.

    So what does dumbass olegt do next? Say the obvious- that the mutations in a GA are randomly produced- so what oleg- they are produced in response to the GA to help the GA solve the problem it was designed to solve.

    IOW olegt, there is more to any given GA besides the ability to generate random mutations.

    GAs direct those mutations via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

    GAs = goal oriented and goal oriented = ID.

    IOW if a GA solves the problem it was designed to solve, then it solved it by design, not willy-nilly.

    Unfortunately evotards seem to be ignorant of that…

    Proud of it too

  36. olegt: Well, he was careful enough to say “I have used and written them,” not “I have written and used them.” The order matters.

    olegt: Our host was on to something when she named the thread “a holding tank.”

    Yes it is holding all of your tard and caowardice

  37. OM: What problems are your cellular GAs attempting to solve Joe?

    I already told you. Obvioulsy you still think your ignorance means something.

    Strange, that…

  38. damitall:
    I really, really, REALLY want to see a genetic algorithm written and used byJoeG.

    I’ll be honest – I think it just possible he may have used one; I don’t believe at all that he’s ever written a functioning GA

    Meet me and I will show you- where do you live?

  39. olegt: That’s great, Joe. Would you mind describing one or two? That would be a great opportunity for the rest of us to learn from the expert.

    You have proven that you are incapable of learning.

  41. Thorton: Joe’s claim to being an expert in GAs comes from him working a brief stint as a technician at a company that used GAs.At least that’s the story he has told before.Joe himself never wrote or used GAs though.He just drank from the same water fountain as people who did.Apparently he became an expert by osmosis.

    I wrote GAs. I debugged GAs and I have used GAs- and thortard is still a lying piece-of-shit.

  42. Thorton: Is that the English colloquialism for septic tank?

    Maybe Lizzie will rename Guano to

    “TheSepticalZone”

    Yes with the evotards here it is a septic tank…

  43. Joe G: Meet me and I will show you- where do you live?

    I don’t think you’ve written any genetic algorithms, Joe. But you can prove me wrong by presenting them here. I don’t think you will.

  44. new page:

    Thank you olegt- thank you for proving beyond any doubt that you are totally ignorant of GAs.

    First he tells me that GAs have to be outside of the organisms because that is how it is in a VIRTUAL world. However when reminded that it is a VIRTUAL world and they can do that in a VIRTUAL world, but nit in the real world, where the GA to control the inside of an organism would have to be inside of the organism.

    It took a whole for that to sink in, if it ever did.

    So what does dumbass olegt do next? Say the obvious- that the mutations in a GA are randomly produced- so what oleg- they are produced in response to the GA to help the GA solve the problem it was designed to solve.

    IOW olegt, there is more to any given GA besides the ability to generate random mutations.

    GAs direct those mutations via cumulative selection in order to reach the goal- ie solve the problem.

    GAs = goal oriented and goal oriented = ID.

    IOW if a GA solves the problem it was designed to solve, then it solved it by design, not willy-nilly.

    Unfortunately evotards seem to be ignorant of that…

    Proud of it too

  45. new page:

    And again evoTARDs- if you could just step up and actually support the claims of your position, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    However you are too coward lyto do something like that.

    as predicted…

  46. Joe G: I am not discarding anything- I said the mutations are random- however the sc direcets them the organisms towards the goal- dumbass

    Read the manual, Joe:

    A generic selection procedure may be implemented as follows:

    1. The fitness function is evaluated for each individual, providing fitness values, which are then normalized. Normalization means dividing the fitness value of each individual by the sum of all fitness values, so that the sum of all resulting fitness values equals 1.
    2. The population is sorted by descending fitness values.
    3. Accumulated normalized fitness values are computed (the accumulated fitness value of an individual is the sum of its own fitness value plus the fitness values of all the previous individuals). The accumulated fitness of the last individual should be 1 (otherwise something went wrong in the normalization step).
    4. A random number R between 0 and 1 is chosen.
    5. The selected individual is the first one whose accumulated normalized value is greater than R.

    The selection process is all about individual organisms, not about mutations. Had you actually written a GA, you would know it.

  48. Joe G: You stupid fuck- the “individuals” in my scenario would be the DNA sequences or the proteins.

    Doesn’t matter, Joe. You can think of DNA sequences in this context. Selection still acts on individuals in the populations. Mutations remain undirected.

  49. BTW yours is a GENERIC selection procedure, which means any real one does not have to be the same as that.

  50. The DNA sequences and proteins ARE the individuals in the population. The GA directs the DNA to change and then selects the changes that best match the target.

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