Comments that seem to me to be in violation of the game rules will be moved here, and closed to further comment. Do not regard having your post moved here as a reprimand, merely as a referee’s whistle. 🙂
Feel free to comment on them at any other peanut gallery of your choice.
[New page as links no longer work properly on Guano (2)]
Post n° 56711
Corneel,
Nonlin has a talent for contradicting herself/himself, and for being pretty hard to be shown so. She/he then just denies or goes to some tangential thing, also wrong. His paragraphs at the OP are filled with contradictions. I tried once to show Nonlin just one contradiction, and no way she/he would understand it. She/he would go on and on on tangents, until she/he decided that I was too impolite, rather than confronting her/his mistake. From my experience, I’d guess that even if you showed 1000 articles where fitness is defined apart from survival, you won’t convince her/him.
Nonlin.org,
So besides being arrogant and stupid you cannot read complete sentences? Who would have guessed?
You and your buddies Corneel and Adapa are just squatters. I have yet to see any original idea coming from your dead brains.
Instead of brain dead comments like that, why don’t you show “fitness separate from survival” and be done? Also, what “contradiction”? Are you sure it’s not just in your dead brain?
That’s not evolution you idiot, that’s creationism.
Gee, dumbass, I have. That’s why I can discuss generalizing from the facts, while you’re blithering stupidly about “archetypes.”
Well, chump, that’s why I discussed them as different, like,
Of course it’s more complex than that, but that gets to the gist of empiricism. Your projection of your ignorance and incompetence, rather than discussing the issue, only shows how little you’ve thought about these matters.
You would do well not to project your failings onto others.
Glen Davidson
Yes they do you willfully ignorant fucking moron.
Gradual Assembly of Avian Body Plan Culminated in Rapid Rates of Evolution across the Dinosaur-Bird Transition
The fossil record is FULL of non-flying theropods with all the precursor part. All that had to happen was wing assisted incline running (WAIR) evolved into gliding evolved into longer and longer flapping glides evolved into primitive powered flight.
Wing-assisted incline running and the evolution of flight.
Right now you’re behaving like a petulant child who won’t eat his vegetables because he thinks they’re icky.
That doesn’t stop you from lying about the evidence you’ve been shown, does it? All in the name of Jeebus.
CharlieM:
Readers already have the power to ignore comments. They even have the power, via the Ignore feature, to ignore commenters.
It’s up to them whether they choose to exercise those powers, and that’s how it should be. The last thing we need is some doofus like Neil running around closing comments on threads.
I am also blocked, so I have this to say about…
Oh, wait I can’t. I have to wait for Alan and Neil to make sure I can post.
If I agree not to embarrass them maybe I can be unblocked…
Nah.
No, you are not blocked. I guess you had not yet discovered that.
It wasn’t about embarrassment. It was about you dumping lots of off-topic moderation complaints into a discussion thread. And if you had agreed to not do that, you would have been removed from moderation much earlier.
If you want to respond to this, use the moderation thread. And apologies to others for my posting moderation notes here.
Neil, to phoodoo:
Christ, Neil. Why didn’t you announce it, so that phoodoo would know?
You and Alan were the ones who screwed up, so it was your responsibility to fix the problem and announce that you had done so:
a) You singled out phoodoo for censorship, even though the rules don’t permit you to do that.
b) You offered to unblock him only if he would make a promise that isn’t required of anyone else.
c) He wisely declined to make that promise.
d) You finally backed down and fixed your screwup.
e) Yet even when you finally got around to fixing it, you didn’t announce it. Were you ashamed to admit it?
As a result of your actions, phoodoo spent more than seven weeks under censorship.
What the hell is wrong with you two?
O’RLY?
How fucking retarded can you be today, Billy?
Walto, You can “kiss” (sic) my ass!
You represent exactly the mindset I execrate in my OP
You clearly lack the cerebral capacity to grasp more than simplistic binary juxtapositions
You also clearly lack an attention span beyond that of a gold fish… otherwise you would have realized before posting that my earlier follow ups have already categorically contradictied your pathetic attempt at rebbuttal
Oh, it’s J-Mac, so just a bunch of lies.
Glen Davidson
So… you are a moron…ass expected..
That still puts me 50 IQ points above your dumbass. 😀
You should refrain from removing comments from angry atheists who want to disappear from this world no matter what…If they have no hope, just like you, shouldn’t they be respected? You wouldn’t like anyone to tell you to change your mind about the final destination, would you?
Why, because it’s true?
Is having a troll like J-Mac shitting over all of the threads with nothing more than stupidity and dishonesty that important to you? It’s not like I called him a liar, although I properly characterized his dishonest output, but since when has that been against the rules here? Just more making up the rules to protect egregious trolls again.
And how many posts has J-Mac ever written that haven’t been claiming in some manner or other that a person hasn’t been posting in good faith? He can’t back that up, either, although apparently endless lies are what are supposed to be protected here. Are you really just trying to drive out everyone who contributes intelligence, in order to just leave completely dishonest and stupid people like J-Mac? WTF?
So put this on Guano, too. This one does break the rules, stupid and pro-dishonesty as they are, although the first one didn’t. J-Mac’s lying ad hominems do, but you don’t care about the fact that a dishonest troll is shitting all over the place, just that someone calls him on his lies. I think that lies are the only thing that moderators care about protecting by now.
Glen Davidson
I told you Neil… Glen beliefs are stronger than reality… which proves that the great majority of misdiagnosed delusional schizophrenics in this land should be on medications…
How did I break the rules of this blog?
Make sure you provide details, not as you see them…
So, you are pissed because I reminded you about the OP that has been sitting in the moderators box for few days now?
Pity…NAD-juck
See, you just get more lies from J-Mac with your idiotic “moderation.”
Is anything ever going to be done to facilitate discussion and quell dishonest attacks here, or is this going to be a shithole dominated by some of the most dishonest people on the web?
If you actually used the rules against J-Mac’s dishonest attacks this wouldn’t be a problem. But you’ll protect dishonest attacks like they were golden.
Glen Davidson
Glen,
Why don’t you provide the empirical evidence for your beliefs?
You can preform any experiment you want and If it is successful; you provide empirical evidence for your beliefs, I will refund your money.
No excuses. Let’s see how much faith you have in your beliefs. You have faith, don’t you?
How about mutagenesis experiments to start us with?
Are you familiar with the law of recurrent variation, Glen?
It is the elementary textbook for starters…
Are you ready, Glen?
I do, lying retard.
So shut the fuck up.
Or, actually, why don’t you take over the forum by lying, attacking, and being the hideous, vile piece of shit that you are and that the moderators like.
Your lies are protected.
Attempts to return to honest discussion are punished.
And you can be the lying sack of shit that you have always been. J-Mac’s place for shitting on everyone is what this worthless forum is becoming.
Glen Davidson
Yeah, why don’t you actually get ahead of the shitstorms that J-Mac stirs? He’s been doing nothing but shit-stirring, attacking the person (supposedly against the rules, yet he gets away with it almost every time), and making dishonest charges against those better than him (which is almost everyone).
Oh, but let him be an evil rule-breaker, then move a bunch of posts to Guano because you haven’t given a damn about the rules, like, ever.
Is the problem that someone won’t put up with lying trolling forever? The rules apparently don’t matter, never have when it comes to J-Mac.
Not that I care about the posts going to Guano. The real point is that I shouldn’t have to write them simply because the moderators don’t care about the rules, or dishonest, unwarranted attacks on the individual.
Glen Davidson
Given the constant voices rattling around in Mung’s head, I wonder what he hears.
I know I’m supposed to give people the benefit of the doubt, but here I just have to say it. Nonlin is amazingly and unambiguously stupid. So seriously stupid that next time I feel like really insulting someone I will call them “nonlins.”
Can someone please tell OMgowno that I have not been reading his comments forever…Unless I’m using an public computer, like when I was on vacations…I didn;t really read his sh.. but I have seen it before I disposed of it…
Does anybody even care what OMgowno writes other than kitchs?
I wonder…
Byers:
You seem to have lost a lot of “btain’, as well, yet your thinking is not fine. Not fine at all.
Coward.
Coward.
I never said that. You are a liar.
A liar and a coward. Typical for ID I suppose.
fifthmonarchyman,
Fuck off, fifth.
Hi Folks,
Not much time these days for such writing. Thanks for the few comments that have been on-topic & constructive, as well as the humour.
There are a *LOT* of things Dr. S. Joshua Swamidass doesn’t ‘get’ though he tries hard & changes his mind, opinions & words a lot. The saint humour is priceless! Like a wooden elf.
Regarding Josh (the kind of pretentious person who tries to belittle you by using one’s name in the diminutive uninvited, like some pretentious Californians), he’s frankly one of the woolliest thinking people I’ve met in this entire space (e.g. “I am not ‘attacking’ any position. I personally don’t really care one way or another on the genetic bottleneck question.” He’s instead just in this special year ‘peace-ing’ every position, also not attacking any wrong positions or even possibly ‘evil’ ones!). And that truly is an award of notoriety, given some of the people I’ve met in many travels, events, workshops & conferences in dozens of countries! He’s like Denyse O’Leary trapped in a Lab Coat & doesn’t ‘get’ why his genuine goodwill sadly isn’t accepted outside of ‘the movement’ he is attempting to assemble right now at his site. keiths has already joined the site – bravo for Joshua!
Not directly. But you’ve asked for ideas for potential sponsorship & a home base, which implies money & talked wildly about expanding, not that anything is wrong with that. And you are welcome for traffic from atheist-skeptics, as you’ve asked for more ‘sides’ to get involved than just the largely evangelical Christians who are there now.
Which details? Please be more specific. I stand by what I wrote above and the reason I wrote it is explained below. Yes, it is true that Joshua and I have “zero affiliation.” He didn’t ask me to write it. And I didn’t send it to him to ‘screen’. Why he brings that up is unclear.
As for some things Joshua wrote:
This is complete and utter nonsense! S. Joshua Swamidass is a hypocrite of the Empty Chair; it is a ploy, rather than a genuine attempt. In fact, he pushes people off the chair when they reveal his errors, simply because having his errors revealed plainly, simply, clearly & directly in public repeatedly is apparently a very difficult thing for a trained geneticist who runs a laboratory with ‘great success’ who is an MD also to take for their pride. So he lashes out angrily at the offense. So there is the factor of wounded evangelical pride, wounded while evangelising specifically – because there can be no doubt that is the ONLY thing Joshua is doing there, and which is now at issue here because Swamidass, just like Venema, sadly on the most important issues involved, couldn’t argue himself convincingly out of a wet paper bag without getting it all over himself.
Just watch & see what Joe Felsenstein would do to Swamidass’ ‘genealogical Adam’ philosophistry. Joe is a much clearer and accurate thinker and communicator than Josh. In this, Swamidass is no different than Kantian Naturalist. We shall see how Swamidass’ heretical channel that denies heresy is even possible (!) can handle the atheists of The Skeptical Zone. I notice keiths is there already.
As for “California-born & accented,” keiths, it might help to go back to 1931, read Boris Hessen’s paper on Newton. It would benefit Swamidass too, because the chances are as remote as him winning the day with his relativistic “genealogical Adam” at ASA this weekend that he has already read it. Swamidass likens himself on the level of Newton as a creative genius for simply having ‘come up’ with the idea of ‘genealogical Adam’ and for the cleverness of calling it a “Science of Adam.” He’ll of course deny entirely and even perhaps aggressively that his ideas have *absolutely nothing* with his being an evangelical non-mainstream Protestant. Reading Hesssen will likely provide for keiths the answer he seeks.
Right, Joshua; yet you promote a “Science of Adam” that you call “genealogical Adam”. So basically, you are contending that there is a “genealogical science of Adam.” Are you not? No, you won’t answer here or there or anywhere (just like Dr. Seuss was probably too difficult for your level of abstraction!) because the idea itself, dropping all pretense to ‘scientific’ knowledge, is a dead end. And that is why you are not a “scientific genealogist.” Let’s at least speak truthfully here, since Joshua is not ‘skeptical’ enough to join in.
My goodness, how much mud has already been publicly slung & criticism spread – science, philosophistry and evangelical theology, among them. Dr. Dennis Venema & Dr. S. Joshua Swamidass have become the Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum of the evolution, creation and ID circus! As a sociologist, there really is no shortage right now of jaw dropping moments at BioLogos, Peaceful Science and in the ASA’s entire network as a whole. So, in short, that’s why I wrote this OP, to expose the bizarre situation that evangelical protestants like Swamidass find themselves in even now in 2018.
Bruce,
If KN were at least consistent, then you might have a point. But he isn’t, and he tries to cover up his mistakes instead of simply acknowledging them and learning from them. The hole just gets deeper and his digging and dishonesty become more frantic.
A guy who proudly announces his rejection of physicalism, comparing it dismissively to theology, is in no position to come back later saying “Why won’t someone tell me what ‘physical’ means? It’s all I’m asking!”
If he doesn’t understand what physicalism is, then he has no business dismissively rejecting it. And if he does understand it, then he has no business dodging walto’s question.
It’s been a pathetic performance.
Nope, just noting that you’ve gone entirely round the bend. Cray-cray as they say nowadays.
{note to mods: Come and get it!!!!!}
What? Have you lost your mind?
I begin to sense something.. you get paid to spread this nonsense..
How do you feel on your family vacations?
KN,
If my points were bogus, you’d be able to refute them. You can’t, as everyone can see. So you flail and make false accusations instead. It’s a pitiful and dishonest performance.
So you’re telling us that you, a grown man (and a trained philosopher!), don’t recognize the following as a question?
Did you somehow miss the eleven question marks?
Your meltdown is complete. You have shredded your remaining credibility. Congratulations.
KN,
You could have handled this situation so easily by simply acknowledging that your position was mistaken and needed some work.
Instead, you’ve exposed yourself as someone who doesn’t have the maturity, or the honesty, to do that.
You were trying to protect your ego, and instead your dishonesty has only humiliated you. When will you learn?
You’re too retard to go on with you.
Just PC retarded-ness. Even worse if retarded-ness without PC.
Since Neil is now subjecting me to the same censorship scheme as J-Mac, my OPs require moderator approval before being published.
I have submitted a new one, Neil. Please do your job and publish it.
In the meantime, here is the text of my OP, for the benefit of readers who are being prevented from reading it by Neil’s illegitimate attempt at censorship:
I will not be publishing that. If you want to have a public fight with Dr Swamidass, you will need to find another site for it.
Okay, Mung. Tell us why the following OP, entitled “Swamidass’s falsehoods”, should not be published:
Discuss ideas, not persons.
I will be moving keiths’ message and this reply to guano.
Hi Vincent,
Thanks for your comment.
I look forward to your upcoming OP on it.
Not just excessive, but outrageous. It’s a punitive action, and it amounts to censorship, both of which run counter to the TSZ ethos and Lizzie’s stated wishes. A shorter suspension would still amount to censorship.
I absolutely agree, and my accusations were not made lightly. I thought very carefully about the evidence before making them. That’s why it’s been amusing to see Alan and Jock trying to label my accusations as “baseless”. They aren’t; I’ve backed them up and can continue to do so to anyone who challenges me. I am prepared to defend my assessment, and I’m certainly not asking anyone to simply take my word for it.
Agreed, and I leave it up to readers (here and at Peaceful Science) to decide whether they agree that Swamidass’s behavior was dishonest or whether they even care if it was. (I just urge them to look at the actual evidence before making a decision.)
Here’s the larger context: Some comments of mine had been deleted by overzealous moderators at Peaceful Science. I expressed dismay and indicated that it would be hard for me to continue posting under such circumstances. Josh acknowledged the mistake and said that he had addressed it, and that I could proceed without fear of a repeat.
My point was that I was finding it very hard to trust Josh’s assurances, given the behavior that I outlined in my complaint.
J-Mac,
Did you train for that, or being such an incredibly clueless, self-unaware, stupid ass-hole comes naturally to you?
Rene Descartes was a religious man. The person wearing the name ‘Kantian Naturalist’ here, otoh is a secularist, not ‘religious’, and talks little & usually confusedly about it.
“Infinitely more,” according to professional ‘child’s play’ philosophistics! Sure, telling that to undergrads still allowed, are you?
Does anyone here think KN might have exaggerated with his skeptic chest out?
Sorry, Mung, what do appreciate about him dunking his sophisticated, soul-numbing donuts at this place, as he edits some book that will peddle philosophistry to a small enclave of people who embrace Sell-Out philosophistry? Please get a grip and go read better elsewhere. That woolly ain’t keeping people warm, especially in wintertime.
Write something of value.. you sound like the farmer’s wives’ association… blah, blah, blah…
You have too much time on hands? Pick up a hobby… or another addition…😉
It is sad. You are so blessed man. How did you get to be able to have so much experience on so many blogs? You are like a blog-savant. I bet you even drink savantblog?
Or is this somehow related to your inability to not click on things you don’t want to read? Maybe its not blog-savantism, but instead you have blogautism?
Either way, you are so brave to talk about it here. Unless of course you don’t have the ability to not talk about it, then that is not exactly brave, since you have no choice.
Brave. Afflicted. It doesn’t matter really. Could just be two sides to the same coin I suppose. God bless. Be proud.