Here’s how Stoermer describes Liberal Nationalism and the role it plays in american politics:
There’s a belief system that combines two things — first, that change must happen through official channels (voting, courts, proper debate), and second, that this procedural faith is wrapped in American exceptionalism. The system isn’t just legitimate. It is sacred because America itself is exceptional.
Now here’s where it gets complicated. Klein says the project is “the American experiment.” Newsom builds on that. Kirk said the same things, but meant something completely different. Kirk’s American experiment would destroy Klein’s and Newsom’s — he wanted to dismantle multiracial democracy, restrict voting, and return to what he called the real Founders’ vision. That would end everything Klein and Newsom claim to value.
Yet Klein’s nationalism enables Kirk’s. By treating Kirk’s anti-democratic project as legitimate discourse within the American experiment, by claiming they share common ground, Klein validates extremism as just another voice in the great American conversation.
And I keep wondering: Does the white Christian nationalist movement understand something about liberal nationalism that we don’t? Do they realize that as long as they frame their goals in terms of the Constitution, the Founders, and the American experiment, individuals like Klein will always find common ground with them?
I found other notable liberal figures saying similar things while perusing twitter. Notably senator John Fetterman recently insisted that americans (sorry, I refuse to capitalize demonyms. Sue me) should stop calling Trump an autocrat and pleaded for toning down the anti-Trump rhetoric. To me this attitude plays right into MAGA’s hands. This is the kind of stuff that whitewashes bigotry and helps reactionaries move the Overton window further right.
I would venture that in a similar situation, on this side of the pond we would be out on the streets, striking the economy to a screeching halt. But in the US, there seems to be this nationalist bootlicking mentality that prevents people from even considering direct action, simply because they believe the system will somehow fix itself and everything will be honky dory in the end.
I can’t help but think the US of A was never truly the haven of freedom we were told it was. And as much as I appreciate the comparably stronger fighting spirit of the working class here, I’m not sure it will be enough to resist the rise of the far right here in Europe either, propped up by the ever influential american politics. I’m a pessimist, so please give me hope, or don’t. Thoughts, please?
Erik:
colewd:
Yes, really. An open border policy is where anyone who wants in, gets in. When was the last time that was true of the US?
“Open borders” is Republican propaganda:
Axios Explains: The myth of a U.S.-Mexico “open border”
It’s propaganda, and you fell for it. The irony is that you scold us for falling for propaganda, but you can’t point to a single instance of that happening. Meanwhile, you fall for propaganda right and left.
keiths,
The borders were open under Biden as almost 10 million foreigners were able to enter the country over the southern border illegally. The numbers were cut dramatically in January when Trump was inaugurated. The borders were essentially open.
Can you not defend your ideology with facts?. The Democratic party is in deep trouble and we need it to be healthy. Generated propaganda for the Democrats that can be easily falsified is a terrible strategy.
colewd:
I already explained to you what “open borders” means. It’s not a difficult concept:
During Biden’s term, more than 10 million people were either apprehended or turned away at the border. Those people did not get in. The border was not open.
If you want to criticize Biden’s immigration policy, fine. But why lie about it? Criticize the reality, not the cartoon version that Republicans are pushing.
Lol. Here we go again. Everything I’ve said is factual. If you disagree, quote any false statement I’ve made and we can discuss it. Or run away, as usual.
If you actually cared about the Democratic party, you’d condemn the guy who is trying to steal the 2026 election and is characterizing the Dems as “the party of hate, evil, and Satan”.
In all my years at TSZ, I don’t think I’ve encountered anyone who is as blind to irony as you. I dislike propaganda from either side, and I reject it. That’s why you haven’t been able to point to a single instance in which I promulgated “propaganda that can easily be falsified.” You, on the other hand, do it all the time, including with this “open borders” nonsense.
Apply some critical thinking. Don’t assume that something is true simply because it comports with your views. Stop making idiotic claims like this:
We were right, as you acknowledged later, and you were the one who fell for Trump’s propaganda. Do better.
colewd:
“The OBBBA screws the poor, but it screws them less than it would if we hadn’t increased the standard deduction.” That’s the truth, but it doesn’t make for a good talking point, so Republicans leave out the “screws the poor” part. You’re trying to do the same. “See how generous we are? We increased the standard deduction!”
I already showed you the tax impact of the OBBBA as a whole, including the change to the standard deduction:
…and the overall impact when benefit cuts are included:
It screws poor people, pure and simple. And it isn’t just poor people. If you look at that graph, the slope is upward. Every group is subsidizing the groups above it. The slope should be downward. Poor people need more money; rich people don’t. Why transfer wealth from the poor to the rich?
That’s all questionable, but let’s assume for the sake of argument that it’s true. What’s your logic? Wage growth benefits the poor, so it’s important to undo their gains and transfer some or all of that money to the rich, who don’t need it? Why not celebrate the fact that the poor are doing better and let them keep their gains?
Here’s the question you need to answer:
Fill in the blank. I’ve shown you that trickle-down economics doesn’t work, so what are you going to fill that blank with?